2,000 Greater & Lesser Mysteries/2,000 Greater and Lesser Mysteries.iso/ufo/aav/mys02128.txt

Text File | 1994-06-10 | 1.2 MB | 27,984 lines

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From: [e-mail] (Brent Irvine)
Subject: ALIEN Intelligence
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: Brent Irvine
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1992 21:19:38 GMT
Lines: 19


    D'you suspect that some Aliens might have an intelligence
    that may be so alien that you could not compare ours to
    theirs?

    Evolution/Creation so that a species may survive on a
    alien world (different radiation levels, chamical
    composition, gravity, light composition, and so on)
    might produce an obvious INTELLIGENCE, but one so
    strange, that there was little common ground beyond the
    most BASIC communication (Like "ouch!").

    Anyone see any like this? ;)

--
+-------------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         |  "CREDO QUIA ABSURDUM EST"  -Tertullian c.200AD   |
| [e-mail] |   [I believe it because it is ridiculous.]        |
+-------------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
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From: [e-mail] (Scott Drellishak)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: John Winston Speaks!
Date: 25 Oct 1992 22:26:57 GMT
Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
)Dear Folk: By now you are probubly sick of invisible fish. Sorry about
)that. I believe what happened was that I was sending to Portal
)Communications OK but they weren't getting it out to the Net, then
)finally things started working right and they sent out what I had
)sent over and over to them to the Net.

In other words, Portal's news server worked like it's supposed to, and you
sent the same three messages over and over.  Here's a hint -- if you send
an article twice, it's *supposed* to show up twice in the newsgroup.  Have
a little patience.  It's not like we couldn't just run out to the market
and pick up a copy of the Weekly World News and the Sun ourselves.

Which reminds me, John.  I have a favor to ask.  For your next posting
from one of these papers, could you post the small-print publication
information at the beginning of the paper?  I believe that both these
papers carry disclaimers to the effect that their stories are *works*
*of* *fiction*.  Kind of throws some doubt on their veracity, huh?

Because I'm such a nice guy, I changed the title of this article, so
you can have a descriptive title for your posts -- follow up to this
one from now on.

)I still love the Portal people and they do a great job.
)John Winston

How sweet.
--
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Scott Drellishak   [e-mail]                          |
|                "Spumco ... the Danes call it quality."                   |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
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From: [e-mail] (Jacques Guy)
Subject: Query: Solexmal???
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (System PRIVILEGED Account)
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Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1992 23:03:01 GMT
Lines: 8

Does anyone have any information about a language called
"Solexmal", claimed to be "the apparent interlingua of
the Solar System" by a group called THE STAR FELLOWSHIP.
The group appears to be -- or have been -- based in
Surrey, England, and they seem to have been followers
of Geroge Adamski.

Thank you for any clues.
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: [e-mail] (Steve Browne)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Inde
Cc: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 00:12:00 +0000
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 10

> Group: alt.alien.visitors
> From: [e-mail] ()
> Date: 25/10/92 14:17:49
> Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Inde
>
> Dear Folk: By now you are probubly sick of invisible fish. Sorry about
> that.
Apologies accepted. :)

Steve
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: [e-mail] (Steve Browne)
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Cc: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 00:13:00 +0000
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Group: alt.alien.visitors
From: [e-mail] (Sea Wasp)
Date: 25/10/92 20:45:00
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere

Apparantly you can buy a camera over here (about 6000 UK Pounds) that will
show auras. It's meant for specialists to examine your photo and interpret
it. The photo actually just looked like a normal photo with red, yellow and
green blurs around the sides of the head... I can dig out more details if
anyone's interested.

Steve
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From: [e-mail] (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 92 00:53:58 GMT
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Originator: [e-mail]

>Apparantly you can buy a camera over here (about 6000 UK Pounds) that will

    ACK!

    Isn't that around 10-12,000 dollars? A bit pricey to photograph
something of unproven existence, eh?

    Methinks I smell a scam...

>show auras. It's meant for specialists to examine your photo and interpret
>it. The photo actually just looked like a normal photo with red, yellow and
>green blurs around the sides of the head... I can dig out more details if
>anyone's interested.

    Sounds like something I could do rather easily with just a bit of
diddling with the processing and a few filters. Heck, for a lot less than
6,000 pounds I could make a camera that's produce the same results; shoot
three simultaneous exposures through three different color filters and
make the superimposition off just a TINY bit in one area of the film.
And I suspect I could even make it look (outwardly) like a relatively
ordinary camera.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Just a jest, no more no lest
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 92 00:19:17 GMT
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alt.alien.visitors,

a coherent (or incoherent, to some of you, i suppose) (after all, who can
be sure?) thought?

There's the whole story, folks. You can believe it or not whether I wrote
this myself or was merely channeling this through a Big Hairy Creature who
could be a Grey genetic experiment gone Haywire or an over-hormonal Elvis.

Aaron G. Stock
The Aaronstockracy
etc.
--
Aaron G. Stock          |          Ace Pumpkin
[e-mail] | Peter Gabriel Fan and Abalone Player
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drawer 1735     |"I'm a-waiting for the ignition, I'm looking for a spark
Earlham College     | Any chance collision and I, light up in the dark
Richmond, Indiana| There you stand before me, all that fur and all that hair
47374         | Oh do I dare-- I have the touch" -Peter Gabriel
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Hmmmmmmm......
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 92 00:07:41 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana
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Dear alt.alien.visitors fans,
I was just wondering.
--
Aaron G. Stock          |          Ace Pumpkin
[e-mail] | Peter Gabriel Fan and Abalone Player
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drawer 1735     |"I'm a-waiting for the ignition, I'm looking for a spark
Earlham College     | Any chance collision and I, light up in the dark
Richmond, Indiana| There you stand before me, all that fur and all that hair
47374         | Oh do I dare-- I have the touch" -Peter Gabriel
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ok, this time really: one more
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 92 00:12:39 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana
Lines: 12

to the alt.alien.visitors people who for whatever reasons, enjoy reading
this newsgroup, and even to those who don't (I don't mean to exclude anybody),

time he comes up with
--
Aaron G. Stock          |          Ace Pumpkin
[e-mail] | Peter Gabriel Fan and Abalone Player
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drawer 1735     |"I'm a-waiting for the ignition, I'm looking for a spark
Earlham College     | Any chance collision and I, light up in the dark
Richmond, Indiana| There you stand before me, all that fur and all that hair
47374         | Oh do I dare-- I have the touch" -Peter Gabriel
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!bsu-cs!bsu-ucs.uucp!yang.earlham.edu!aarons
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: one more
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 92 00:10:24 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana
Lines: 10

So, people who read alt.alien.visitors,
John likes to post something every
--
Aaron G. Stock          |          Ace Pumpkin
[e-mail] | Peter Gabriel Fan and Abalone Player
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drawer 1735     |"I'm a-waiting for the ignition, I'm looking for a spark
Earlham College     | Any chance collision and I, light up in the dark
Richmond, Indiana| There you stand before me, all that fur and all that hair
47374         | Oh do I dare-- I have the touch" -Peter Gabriel
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From: [e-mail] (KYLE CASSIDY)
Subject: Re: John Winston Speaks!
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 01:43:31 GMT

>*of* *fiction*.  Kind of throws some doubt on their veracity, huh?

oh but it's true, i have gobs of invisible fish right here in my office. i'
ve got invisible rats and mice too. anybody like to buy any?
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ????????
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 92 00:08:43 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana
Lines: 10

Hello all you alt.alien.visitors readers,
why in the heck
--
Aaron G. Stock          |          Ace Pumpkin
[e-mail] | Peter Gabriel Fan and Abalone Player
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drawer 1735     |"I'm a-waiting for the ignition, I'm looking for a spark
Earlham College     | Any chance collision and I, light up in the dark
Richmond, Indiana| There you stand before me, all that fur and all that hair
47374         | Oh do I dare-- I have the touch" -Peter Gabriel
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 01:33:53 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Sea Wasp) writes:
>>Apparantly you can buy a camera over here (about 6000 UK Pounds) that will
>
>    ACK!
>
>    Isn't that around 10-12,000 dollars? A bit pricey to photograph
>something of unproven existence, eh?
>
>    Methinks I smell a scam...

Actually, I went to one of the shows at the San Jose Convention Center,
or somewhere thereabouts.

My "aura" is blue and yellow, and there is more aura on the left side
of my head. It sorta looks like fuzzy sparks radiating radially out of
my head. Looks kinda eerie...

This was taken in the 1987 time frame, I did not date the photo. It cost
$10 then, wonder what they cost now.

It might be interesting for someone to interpret this photo, and see if
they could predict what is now my past.

Hey, wonder what Kathy might say?

>>show auras. It's meant for specialists to examine your photo and interpret
>>it. The photo actually just looked like a normal photo with red, yellow and
>>green blurs around the sides of the head... I can dig out more details if
>>anyone's interested.
>
>    Sounds like something I could do rather easily with just a bit of
>diddling with the processing and a few filters. Heck, for a lot less than
>6,000 pounds I could make a camera that's produce the same results; shoot
>three simultaneous exposures through three different color filters and
>make the superimposition off just a TINY bit in one area of the film.
>And I suspect I could even make it look (outwardly) like a relatively
>ordinary camera.

It seems to be some variant of Kirlian photography. A high voltage, low
current source was involved.

>                                 Sea Wasp
>                                   /^\
>                                   ;;;
>

Rich

[e-mail]


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From: [e-mail] (glenn durden)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 12:29:38 +1000
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
Lines: 20

[e-mail] writes:

> 1>+
> Subject: The Old Invisible
> Fish Story.
>   In the past I mentioned a story that I had read about some invisible fish

These tetras are fairly well known to people in the fish world, and no, they
dont go completely invisible, they merely go clear.   You can still see the
bones and stuff.


P.S.  For a while now I've noticed that most of your long posts are
characterised by lots of control/printer codes at the end of them.
Whatever you are pre-typing these into, isnt producing straight text.

.........................................................
glenn durden
[e-mail]  Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
The opinions expressed above are that of the author only.
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From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 06:02:04 GMT
Lines: 8

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Sorry. I still love Portal.

    Then why don't you MARRY it?  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

                        -- PEE WEE BIFF !!!!!1


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 09:06:06 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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>Sea Wasp writes:
>Org.  : University of Pittsburgh
>>Well, I decided to get on the bandwagon too.  I have also seen auras, at
>>least that's what I call it.  I used to practice extending the light I saw
>>around my fingertips.  I did this in the dark, laying in bed so my hands
>>would be framed against the ceiling.  I don't always see them.  Sometimes
>>when a person is talking and I'm concentrating on what they're saying I
will
>>notice a nimbus of light.  Other times if I decide I want to see someone's
>>"aura" I will work at it (concentrate) and may see it.  It doesn't happen
>>often nor all the time.  If I practiced then maybe, yes.

>        There is a single, well known visual phenomenon which explains
>most of the "auras" that people claim to see (stripped of their non-
>confirmed claims of health/lie detection, etc), and also explains
>why the "block off the person" test of aura sight causes all the
>people taking it to fail.
 >       It's called AFTERIMAGES.
>
>        If you concentrate on an object, especially one against a
contrasting
>background, for any reasonable amount of time, you will start to see a faint
>"glow" (color dependent both on the object's color and that of the
>background).
>        This "glow" is simply the receptors of your eyes falling prey
>to the equivalent of "CRT screen burn"; they aren't adjusting perfectly
>to the slight shift in your eye position, and so there are excess receptor
>activations of the wrong level which remain temporarily in the nearby field
>of view. The same thing, more extreme, is why one sees spots before the
>eyes after a flashbulb goes off when one is looking at it.
>                                Sea Wasp

        That's fine.  I can accept that as a plausible and probable answer.
My only question--how could I extend the aura from my fingertips while
looking at them in the dark.  This would also be done an hour after being in
the dark so that there weren't any "spots" from the light.  Just curious and
thanks for an explanation. :) Colleen

--
It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
The Crimson Bunion
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From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 09:12:06 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
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Steve Browne writes:
>Apparantly you can buy a camera over here (about 6000 UK Pounds) that will
>show auras. It's meant for specialists to examine your photo and interpret
>it. The photo actually just looked like a normal photo with red, yellow and
>green blurs around the sides of the head... I can dig out more details if
>anyone's interested.

>Steve
        Yes, Steve, I would be interested in the details.  I have a
background (though now somewhat rusty) in photography and would like to see
the info.   Years ago I went to a "Psychic Fair" where someone was doing aura
readings.  They were basically taking polaroid shots.  Because the film
develops as you look at it, it is very heat sensitive.  The so-called reader
pretty much seemed to be rubbing the film or pressing someone's hand directly
onto the print.  This would, of course cause a halo of development at a
different temperature.  I was not impressed.
Colleen
--
It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
The Crimson Bunion
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From: [e-mail] (4U2NV)
Subject: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Alternative Collegiate Computing Association
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 09:11:11 GMT
Lines: 8

Hmm, I was told this by a friend.  Can anyone add any truth to this??

It appears that he was watching a latenight news channel (he forgets which one).He heard something about a Russian spacecraft (to Mars??) getting blown away
by a UFO (captured on film, seconds before the craft lost power).  Again, can
anyone add anything to this??

Thanks in advance.
--BUD
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From: [e-mail] (VALLINKOSKI SAMI)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Shamans or visitors
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 92 09:34:16 GMT
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In Finland we have grupe of men who call themselves SHAMANS.
Those mens can do most amazing trics (ran atop of burning snow,drink ice
cold home made beer, etc.),so I am started to get worry.
THOSE MENS CAN BE ALIEN VISITORS FROM OUTER SPACE.

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 06:28:59 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <1992Oct24.185937.9363@crash>
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Dear Person: Yes I guess your right. My floppy disks may be getting
a little too floopy.
John Winston
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 06:33:05 PDT
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Dear Truth Seekers: It is monday morning at about 520 am. Calif. is now
gone to Standard Time. I hope that all of you are well.
John Winston
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: John Winston Speaks!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 06:43:24 PDT
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  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
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Dear Folks and Flamers: I know that my last difficulty with posting
is just about driving everybody crazy. I have not excuse. Things are
sometimes difficult.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
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Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Subject Big Foot. Part 6.
  Now let's review things a little bit. This is me (John Winston) talking now.
It appears that most Big Foot can go into another dimension (the fifth) and
become invisible to the normal human vision.  This is the way they can be
hard to be found. The larger type Big Foot that are more like brutes can not
do this and they can be captured. This type is also very attracted to human
women and have been known to capture human women and have sex with them and
children. The women of this type of Big Foot can also be impregnated by
human males and have children. These Big Foot that Stan worked with seem to
like salt in the form of block salt like a person feeds cattle.  The Big
Foot call it lick. We will now backtrack a little and explain some more
about his first encounter with Bigfoot. Now back to Stan's story;  We
decided to move in the direction of the growling noise. We spread out and
within minutes I found fresh tracks.  We all examined the tracks which
measured seventeen and a half inches long and seven inches wide at the
widest part.  The foot had no bend in the middle and would have been hard to
tell left from right if it hadn't been for the big toe.  The ball of the
foot was about seven inches across and the heel about four inches across.
After further study I determined that the Big Foot walked with emphasis on
the ball of the foot and hardly any on the heel.  This explains the springy
walk.
  The name of the Big Foot that Stan talked to by telepathy was Allone. He
wanted to be friends with Stan. He wanted Stan to keep all people away from
them, because we are afraid of them  and don't understand who they are and
we only want to hunt them or harm them.
  Here is another conversation Stan had with a Big Foot. First it was by
telepathy. Stan. How many of your people are there on the mountain? Allone.
Five. Stan. What do you really believe in? A. We send peace and love to you
and all living creatures. S. Why can't I see you face to face? A. Close your
eyes and when you open them, look at me with your third eye and you will see
me.
  So I closed my eyes and then opened them. He was sitting there, leaning
against a tree about twelve feet from me.  In my opinion, he had been
sitting there all the time invisible.  There was no way he could have moved,
unless he was invisible, and gotten to that spot while I was talking to him.
 My eyes were only closed for three or four seconds and I would have heard
him walk up and sit down.  I asked him how he had done that and he said he
wanted to show me how he kept the wrong people from seeing him.  When he
stayed invisible, he could get around people and they would not know he was
there.
End Part 6.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Travis Stone)
Subject: George Adamski Anecdote (humorous)
Message-ID: <stone.720110526@cwis>
Keywords: Ha ha, George is a Goof
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 14:42:06 GMT
Lines: 92



I was idly leafing through an old book yclept
"Flying Saucers---Here and Now!" by Frank Edwards
(Bantam Books, copyright 1967) and I came across
a rather tongue-in-cheek section on the late scamster,
"Professor" George Adamski that I thought most of you
would get a bang out of:

"...Persons who tell such stories are known in the UFO
business as 'contactees.'

  The first and foremost among them was a fellow named
George Adamski.  He was a man of meager scholastic attain-
ments, but he made up for that shortcoming by having an
excellent imagination, a pleasing personality, and an
apparently endless supply of gall.

George established the ground rules for the contactees
which they have dutifully followed.  He was the first---
and he showed that there was considerable loot to be made
by peddling tales of talking with space people.  George
instinctively realized that everything had to be pretty
nebulous; he knew that details would be disastrous.

Prior to becoming associated with a hamburger stand on the
road to Mt. Palomar, George had worked in a hamburger stand
as a grill cook.  With his scientific background he wrote,
in his spare time, a document which he called 'An Imaginary
Trip to the Moon, Venus, and Mars.'  He voluntarily listed
it with the Library of Congress for copyright purposes as
A WORK OF FICTION.

That was in 1949.

His effort did not attract many customers but it did attract
the attention of a lady writer who saw gold in them there
space ships.  She made a deal with George to rewrite his
epic; she was to furnish the skilled writings and he was to
furnish the photographs of the space ships.

This lady brought the finished manuscript to me for appraisal
and she brought with it a clutch of the crudest UFO photo-
graphs I had seen in years.  I declined to have anything to
do with the mess and she left my office in a bit of a huff.

In its revised form it told a yarn of how George had ventured
into the desert of southern California, where he met a "scout
ship" from which stepped a gorgeous doll in golden coveralls.
She spoke to him in a bell-like voice in a language which he
did not understand, so they had to resort to telepathy, or
something similar, to carry on their conversation.  And then,
as she prepared to leave him, she tapped out a message in the
sand with her little boot.  George realized that she wanted
him to preserve this message (it was terribly important) and,
having a pocket full of wet plaster of Paris (which he seemingly
always carried with him on desert trips), George quickly made
a plaster cast of the footprint with the message, which he
eventually reproduced for the educational advancement of his
readers, who were legion.

Of the numerous photographs which embellished the book let it
be said that some of them could not have been taken as claimed.
The others were crudely 'simulated,' as the Air Force put it
charitably.

But for me the payoff was the alleged photograph of Adamski's
'scout ship' in which he allegedly took a trip to Venus and
returned.  The picture as shown in his book was taken either
on a day when three suns were shining---or else it was a small
object taken with three floodlights for illumination.  After
eight years of patient search I finally came to the conclusion
that his space ship was in reality the top of a canister-type
vacuum cleaner, made in 1937.  I doubt that many persons are
traveling through space in vacuum cleaner tops.

Adamski communicated with me frequently.  When he was questioned
about the title of 'professor' which he used, he explained that
it was just an honorary title given to him by his 'students',
and that he never used it himself.  George was evidently for-
getful, for the letters he sent me were always signed 'Professor
George Adamski.'"

*** End of Quote ***

Well, there you have it---I hope it gives you as big a chuckle
as it did me when I read it.

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
The home of Dr. Jack Kasher (the physicist who was on "Sightings"),
a damned nice man and excellent E&M instructor...
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Randolph)
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors.sewage.garbage.bullshit.crackpots.fantas
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 OCT 92 10:02:58
Lines: 12


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>I have been seeing the so called scientists responses on this net and
>consider them the most backwards people on the planet, unable to concive
>of something outside of their belief box.  And I am as tired of their
>linear logic beliefs as they are of mine.
>Don Showen

The incredible irony of someone posting this on a worldwide electronic
communications network is, I'm afraid, lost on Mr. Showen. Sad.

-Tom R.   [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Randolph)
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 OCT 92 10:17:06
Lines: 15


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes...
>My "aura" is blue and yellow, and there is more aura on the left side
>of my head. It sorta looks like fuzzy sparks radiating radially out of
>my head. Looks kinda eerie...
>Rich
>[e-mail]

Sounds like what you see through a $2 pair of binoculars to me...
Let me guess - you were very brightly lit, against a dark background?

And one more time:
This has nothing to do with alt.alien.visitors. Please move it.

-Tom R.   [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Randolph)
Subject: Re: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References:   <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 OCT 92 10:28:10
Lines: 21


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (4U2NV) writes...
>It appears that he was watching a latenight news channel (he forgets which one).He heard something about a Russian spacecraft (to Mars??) getting blown away
>by a UFO (captured on film, seconds before the craft lost power).  Again, can
>anyone add anything to this??
>
>Thanks in advance.
>--BUD

There isn't anything to tell, really. The former Soviets launched two craft,
Phobos 1 and 2, to Mars. One shut itself off after it was sent the wrong
commands from the ground. The other crapped out near Mars. There is a photo of
the Martian moon Phobos that has a blob of CCD noise in it, that has been blown
way out of proportion in the "UFO community". The blob is alleged to be an
alien spacecraft... People who see and interpret such photos for a living say
it's "bloom", a common CCD camera phenomenon. You decide.

As a P.S., Russian spacecraft have been notoriously unreliable for decades,
nothing new about another one.

-Tom R.   [e-mail]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12342 alt.alien.visitors:10498 sci.skeptic:32952
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 08:23:19 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 21

Subject: The Red Head.
  Recently there has been a baby girl born that was talking before she was
completely came out of the womb. She opened he eyes wide, looked at the doc
and whined, Ricky. I wanna be in the show!  Everyone let out a gasp and
gawked at the tiny newborn.
  Before we could say anything, she yelled, "What are you people staring at?
It's just me, Lucy."
     The stunned silence in the delivery room was soon replaced by laughter as
the baby began telling jokes and squirming around comically.
  In the confusion, the baby's mon Cynthia, passed out from shock.
  As we struggled to revive her, the baby became upset at no longer being the
center of attention and began crying. She went Waaaah! Just like Lucy used
to do.  The mother and father live in an apartment on the outskirts of
Wolverhampton, England. James ,31, says his crazy redheaded daughter is
always happy to clown around for the adoring fans who crowd her small
bedroom.
  In the most spectacular example of reincarnation of recent times, a baby
emerged from her mothr's womb talking and announced to stunned doctors that
she was Lucille Ball back form the dead.
Information Source. Januar5y 23, 1990-Sun-page 29.
John Winston
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12343 alt.alien.visitors:10499
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 09:23:35 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 50

Subject: Skeptic's UFO. Part 2.
  Now we will continue the conversation between Charles (C) and the mysterious
young lady (L).
  C. First, how did you get that bike away from the fuz? L. Oh, that was easy.
One day a few friends and I were driving on the Hollywood Freeway in
Caifornia, minding our own business, when a policeman comes up behind us and
gets us out of the car at gun point, for no reason whatsoever. We didn't
appreciate this one bit and with our combined efforts, some persuasion and
charm, we managed to leave him handcuffed with his own cuffs to a freeway
pole.  We took the motorcycle as a souvenir of sunny California. I travel
with a few friends around the world bringing the word of God. C. Oh, your're
one of those Jesus freaks. L. No, I'm not a Jesus freak. C. Oh no. You just
bring the word of God by stealing motorcycles from poor, defenseless
policemen, right? L. Not really. Things like that happen only when we
encounter too much interference with the purpose of our mission. . To save
humanity is our mission. C. What's the name of your group? L. There is no
name and we teach no religion or dogmatic creeds. Just the pain Love of God.
 C. Are you some kind of missionary? L. Yeah, I guess you could consider me
a missionary-- in your language. C. What do you mean by, in your language?
By the way you haven't even told me where you come from? L. In due time, and
by, in your language, I mean that when someone brings teachings and
guidance, he or she is called a missionary, a guide, a teacher, you name it.
C. A hermit, a guru. You enjoy being mysterious don't you? L. Let's say
cautious. You don't have to be a genius to understand what I teach, just a
little logic, an open mind, some general knowledge and the willingness to
understand. I imagine you must have some kind of religious belief. C. None,
I have none. I don't have any religious or political affiliations. I'm a
people lover and consider myself a citizen of the world. I don't even
believe in international boundaries.  L. Very good, but what about you
religious upbringing. Some of it you  must still remember, I imagine.  C. My
religious education was a tough one. Both very Jewish and Roman Catholic.
I've learned to be rebellious, materialistic, mean, cruel and to have this
terrible guilt about the natural functions of being alive. Like making out,
masturbation, even having a girlfriend.  You have no idea how much I had to
go through to get rid of all the guilt. I abondoned both the church and the
synagogue.  My last time there was when I was thirteen. I haven't been back
since, and I don't intend to return, either.  That's how I feel about
religion.  I get the creeps every time I remember how I had to listen to all
that church stuff. I'm a promiscuous character, and both of my religions
made me feel dirty for even thinking about sex. Since I sincerely enjoy my
sexual freedom, I figured it was better not toworry about religion at all. I
lived with my father. I had to attend a school run by priests and nuns--some
places it meant parochial school or no school at all.  There are somne
countries in this world where the whole national education program is in the
hands of the Vatican. I guess now you can understand why I'm so fet up with
religion.
  L. Splendid! C. What do you mean by that? I don't cosider what I've gone
through splendid.
End Part 2.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
Subject: Re: A change in thinking
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 15:07:41 GMT
Lines: 79

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (What a long, strange trip it's been) writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Opera_Ghost) writes...
>>Well, it seems that we have drifted away from the really new agish stuff for
>>a moment.  That is a grand accomplishment for a.a.v.  Let's keep it moving in
>>that direction.
>>
>>I wanted to take advantage of this reality break to release some theories
>>about the reactions that abductees seem to have after their experiences.
>>
>>Folks in this group have been saying that most abductees return with "new age"
>>ideas and such.  I have some ideas about this.  Our society (humanity)for a
>>long time was dominated by religon.  One of the major teachings of most
>>religions is that man and only man was created by God.  IMHO, this is biased
>>and untrue, but that is history.  When a society is told it is alone like that
>>and suddenly discovers that it is really not, it begins to realize the value of
>>its environment, its morals, its beliefs, and in short becomes conscience of
>>the fact that it has something to contribute to the universe after all.  Now
>>this may not really be a conscience decision for each abductee, but it seems
>>to me to be a natural reaction and one that indicates a growing society.
>
>I agree with you, chris... there appears to be a pattern ... a direction..
>to the beliefs that abductees return with..
>
>mary


As CJ is saying, there is a trend for abductees to return with
different ideas than before. Anyone ever read The Omega Project by
Kenneth Ring? His research shows that the people come out of these
abduction episodes with a more spiritual outlook on life. This is to
say they become less "religous" and more spiritual. His and other
research does not show they become "newagers" but only shows they
start beleiving more in God, whatever God is. They also believe much
more in life after death. They believe less is the doctrinal side of
religion and more in the spirituality of it. And naturally, with the
opening of their minds, they also tend to look at the new age stuff.
(I am sure I will get a flame for that statement)

One thing I don't want people to start believing is that they come
back as newagers. Most people that I would label as newagers have
taken and rejected the narrow-minded Christian religions and
substituted their own narrow minded newager religion. They have
shucked one narrow minded view for another.  It has been proven that
UFO abductees most often reject the narrow-minded newagers even more
than the narrow minded Christians. They become interested in both
aspects (Christian and newage) due to their interest and
openmindedness of the spiritual aspect of the whole human being. This
has been triggered IMHO by the very sudden realization that "hey! we
are not alone in this universe!"  brought on by the abduction. Whats
amazing to me (and proves all the more that abductions are not merely
tricks of the mind) is that the spiritual and newage interests quite
often show up long before the abductee even realizes that she has been
abducted. Just another shred of evidence that IMHO proves most
abductions are not hoaxes or scams.

Gregg.
















OA
--
Let the Greys come. If they are friendly, I will shake their hands and wax
their saucers. If they are not, I will do what I can to blow them off the
planet.
This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.
Xref: icaen alt.conspiracy:19359 alt.alien.visitors:10501 sci.space:36315
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Space Domination Initiative
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 92 16:53:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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Lines: 182

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
=[e-mail] (Brad Pierce) writes:
Actually, Brad Pierce did not write this. This article was originally posted in
misc.activism.progressive. I asked the groups moderator for permission to
repost it elsewhere and did so in sci.space and alt.activism.d. I guess Brad
saw this too and decided to repost it here for discussion.
=>The official anti-missile scheme calls for a constellation of
=>surveillance satellites (Brilliant Eyes), watching for fiery rocket
=>plumes, the telltale indicator of an enemy launch.  In a lower orbit, a
=>larger constellation of human-sized interceptors (Brilliant Pebbles)
=>wait for the signal, then attack the missiles and destroy them.
=
=>In the unofficial version, much of which has been invented at Livermore,
=>the Eyes will be equipped with radars, lasers, telescopes, antennae and
=>sensors to allow military commanders to see practically every square
=>foot of Earth--and analyze that information instantly.
=
=Increasing the capability of satellites like this increases their mass
=significantly.  The biggest problem we have with spysats is a lack of
=interpreters to examine the data.  The last thing we need is more data.

Right. We need to increase the number and quality of analysts to go over our
data. Despite the tech available for data gathering, it still takes a human
to pore over the data and realize what is happening. ("Gee, that looks like
an armored brigade sneaking behind our lines..")

=
=>In a conventional war, according to a proposal being promoted around
=>the Pentagon by Lowell Wood, Brilliant Pebbles would be ordered to leave
=>their orbits and fly downward at high speed to hit targets on the sur-
=>face of the planet with great precision.
=
=BP, as now designed, is utterly unable to do this.  They lack the sensors,
=guidance and aerodynamics.

The real authors of the article may be confusing BP w/something proposed in
about 1980 by some scientists, engineers and sci-fi writers called Thor. It
involved hundreds of tungsten/titanium/dep. uranium javelins dropped from
orbit by decellerating a satellite loaded a large number of them. They were
supposed to have sensors on the tip capable of finding a specific shape (tank,
bunker, ship, basic categories like that) and homing in on it and impacting
with near orbital velocity (ouch.) They weren't designed for pinpoint accuracy
to keep them cheap, and were meant to be fired in groups at multiple targets...
say an armored brigade trying to sneak behind your lines :) I think they
could also home in on laser beams for better accuracy so they could hit a
bunker and slice right through it. Note this all assumes there are sensors
capable of surviving/operating under the heat of reentry.. though I don't
know how much friction a javelin would build up while penetrating the
atmosphere. I do think the people who made this up thought of that, however, so
it might actually work. It was never adopted (at least I think it has :) maybe
because it was made up by science fiction writers. Oh well. There is a copy
of the proposal in _There Will Be War_ Vol. 1, ed. Jerry Pournelle if you
want a better description. Anyway, BP is not this.

=>In Colorado Springs, we asked Teller while he was walking to lunch one
=>day if Pebbles could be used to hit enemy command bunkers, a
=>high-priority target in the war with Iraq.  He stopped walking.
=
=>"Look," he said, in his commanding form of speech.  "Yes.  And in a war,
=>you would."
=
=Teller may be a brilliant physicist, but he is is well known for is infatuation
=with bizzare SDI concepts and was responsable for much of the wasted research
=in the early SDIO.

What sort of wasted research? Particle beams or something?

=>But these endoweapons may be fringe projects.  Threatening enemy
=>satellites would seem to be Pebbles' main goal.
=
=BP is also unable to hit satellites as now configured.  Missiles generate an
=incredible amount of heat which is easy to track.  Satellites are much harder
=to detect from orbit.  In addition, most satellites orbit far above BPs and
=would thus be very hard to hit.

Think of it as two people throwing rocks at each other. One is at the bottom
of a well, the other is at the top. Which one has a better chance of hitting
the other as well as dodging incoming rocks? This is a good example of the
tacical advantages of high orbits.

=
=>In their blockade role, Pebbles would be transformed into enforcement
=>battleships, poised to destroy any missile attempting to run the
=>blockade and put a satellite in orbit.
=
=Missiles don't put satellites in orbit.  Launchers or rockets do.

I doubt they can tell the difference, Josh. Rocket=missile to some people.
I also hardly see BP as space battleships. But then, I'm prejudiced from
watching too much anime. :)

=
=>Equally important is the role of Pebbles as anti-satellite weapons, or
=>ASATs, to knock out satellites already in orbit.  Having the ability to
=>eliminate any satellite, whether military or commercial (the difference
=>between the two is diminishing)
=
=Actually, the difference is getting bigger.  Many commerical satellites have
=no military value, and few military sattelites (with the exception of GPS) are
=commerically valuable.

Well, you can use civilian comsats for emergency communications, but comsats
are in very high orbits that are hard to reach from ground or LEO.
Also, LANDSAT can be used for recon, but I don't think it can encode it's
telemetry. That would limit it's use.

=
=>Although the U.S. military has long wanted ASAT weapons, Congress has
=>denied them, fearing an expensive arms race in space.  But the generals
=>have not given up.
=
=The other reason is that ASAT weapons are very destabilizing, so politicians
=are much less excited about them than generals are.

The reason the "generals" want ASATs is too knock down enemy satellites to
prevent their use. Now it's not such a problem as long as the CIS continues
towards democracy and improves its economy (it's not good, though.) The CIS
has a workable ASAT system. It's not as fancy as the one we were testing, but
it works okay.

=
=>So bothersome is the ABM treaty that President Bush is personally
=>pushing Boris Yeltsin to yield.  Teller's missile purchases would be a
=>way of buying the Russians out of the treaty.  On the other hand, U.S.
=>military contractors don't want competition in the launch-vehicle
=>business.
=
=The ABM treaty is completly different from the one (the START treaty?) which
=limits the uses of former missiles.

Also, I don't think the ABM treaty said anything about space-based ABM weapons.
Sort of like the Naval Treaty from the 1920s not limiting aircraft carriers
because they weren't seen as useful. Interestingly enough, the concept of
space-borne ABM weapons *had* been covered in science fiction stories, but then
no one takes that seriously.

=
=>But since any satellite is suspect in wartime, the U.S.,
=>the backgrounder says, should quickly develop a "capability to enforce a
=>military 'keep-out' zone in space over a battle area."
=
=First, not all satellites have military value (can you think of a strategic
=use for an ultra-violet telescope that can't face the Earth?).  Second,
=Most areas can't have a "no fly" zone over them without taking huge numbers
=of satellites out of orbit.

USAF SpaceCom has telescopes and radar that let it track over 20,000(?) objects
in orbit. The telescopes are supposed to be good enough to see a soccer ball
in LEO clearly. Methinks that it is possible to have some idea of what that
satellite is doing. Besides, satellites are usually trapped in their orbits
unless they have thrusters and a lot of fuel. Such satellites are usually
military recon birds so that would be a big giveaway to the ident of an unknown
satellite doing massive orbit changes. This is different from attitude thrusters
used to point a telescope or something at a star, since those don't have the
thrust or fuel to change orbit that much.

=
=The rest of the post (on how SDI is crazy) does have some valididty as long as
=you don't take it to far.

Well, I think there were legitimate reasons for SDI while there was a major
Soviet nuclear threat. I still think it should be looked into in case the
CIS gets toppled by a coup (plausible) or some regional power gets *really*
good ICBM capability. Always judge the threat, not intentions. Threats are
harder to change/eliminate than intentions.


=
=--
=Josh Hopkins                                          [e-mail]
=     The views expresed above do not necessarily reflect those of
=ISDS, UIUC, NSS, IBM FSC, NCSA, NMSU, AIAA or the American Association for the
=                      Advancement of Acronymphomaniacs


--
Patrick Chester            |----------------------------------------------------
[e-mail] |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
Politically Incorrect      |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Future Lunar Colonist      |"The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us
#^%$!! Militarist          |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
(Of the Sun Tzu mentality) |----------------------------------------------------
Organization: Senior, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!tp1e+
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 11:55:56 -0500
From: Todd Alan Padezanin <[e-mail]>
Subject: flying saucer patent
Lines: 13

Hi,

Somebody posted something about a guy getting a patent for an
anti-gravity-field machine or something like that.  If anybody could
resend that message to me, I'd be very grateful.  Also, please send a
copy to my roommate J.D., at [e-mail].   We were discussing
existance/non-existance of UFO's the other night, and I thought of that
post, but I can't find it anywhere....

Thanks,
PanZan

[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors.sewage.garbage.bullshit.crackpots.fantas
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 16:36:35 GMT
Lines: 54

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>I have a name for Greg's new newsgroup:
>alt.alien.waiting.for.mommy.daddy.teacher.and The President.to tell us
>DS

First of all: Why do you care? You can post in aav. I never said a bad thing
about anybody (except in fun) until you and Jeff started flaming me. Basically
I think probably most people are tired of the flames directed towards me.


Second of all: Definition: Objective

1. Of a material object as distinguished from a mental concept, idea o
   belief. (Basically: Something that has a little evidence and not just
            idea or concept based.)

2. Uninfluenced by emotion or personal prejudice.


This is what our moderated group is somewhat based on. Also so intelligent
discussion. If mommy, daddy, teacher or The President want access, they
will have it. If, however, mommy or daddy post something about child
care, it will NOT make it to the group. If teacher posts something about
education not relating to UFOs or Abductions, it WILL BE DELETED. If The
President posts a political advertisment, it will also be DELETED. However,
all are welcome to post articles from anywhere, whether keyed or copied, on
the following subjects:

UFOs
Crop Circles
Abductions
SETI
and much more.


Subjects that are NOT welcome are:

Invisible fish (Sorry John, flame unintentional)
Auras (unless they are Alien auras)
OOBE (unless induced by aliens)
HotTubClubbing


If that bothers you: LUMP IT! We (I think I speak for all the Serious UFO
groupees) do not care. We formed the group for some serious discussion. Not
the fantasy trips that are described in aav anymore.

Gregg.

--
Let the Greys come. If they are friendly, I will shake their hands and wax
their saucers. If they are not, I will do what I can to blow them off the
planet.
This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!rosie.uh.edu!vpaf5
From: [e-mail] (Kal)
Subject: Re: A change in thinking
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Keywords: new age
Sender: [e-mail] (Marchi, Khaled K.)
Nntp-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu
Organization: University of Houston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 18:13:00 GMT
Lines: 64

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kal) writes:
>> Very interesting; however, the fact is, this new-age stuff has been with us
>> for a long, long time. Everything just had different names. Before they were
>> "channelers", they were spiritualists and mediums and oracles and so on.

>
>Actually, I didn't say that I believed that new-age religions were anything
>new.  I believe that the increase in these beliefs is related to the dawning
>realization that humanity is not national, but global.  I am a neo-pagan
>which means (to me) that I believe strongly that thought can influence reality.
>However, I have a strong skeptical streak.  As far as I'm concerned, channeling
>is simply listening to another facet of your own personality.  Anyone who
>claims otherwise is deluding themselves & others.  I feel that the
>increase in the popularity of these things is due to people trying to search
>out a new paradigm for themselves, because the one they have is no longer
>working for them.  Humanity needs a new paradigm, because we need to learn
>not to fractionalize and marginalize large portions of the world just because
>they are "different."  Our current mind-set says that "different" = "bad"
>as you can tell from a lot of the postings in this group.  We are all the same
>no matter what our apparent differences.  BTW,  "New Age" covers a lot more
>ground than just channeling.  Channeling is only one tiny fraction of the
>whole search.  Broaden your horizons...
>
>Kellie

I agree with what you say about channelers, in that some may be deluding
themselves into thinking that they are hearing the voices of other beings.
I am convinced, also, that there are many charlatans who are intentionally
deceptive and in it for the money.

I'll try to dig up some references, but you are wrong if you imply that
the channeling and new-age stuff is more popular now than it was. The
spiritualist movement in the 30's and 40's was HUGE. Much more popular
than anything you see now.

"Thought can influence reality." hm. very interesting statement. How? My
thoughts can certainly influence *my* reality, as can a joint or a couple
of Long Island Iced Teas. But my thoughts cannot influence "esternal"
reality. When you show me somebody whose thoughts can influence *my* reality,
I'll believe (I know, I know, my belief does not mean much to you, etc...)
I will say to you that your thoughts *cannot* influence my reality, and
cannot influence the outside world, in any way shape or form, without
physical action on your part. It's really simple. You're reading this on
a computer. With your thoughts, influence one electron in the machine
to go the wrong way and crash the puter.

I know there is more to new age than channeling, but I am seeing real *people*
rest their entire *lives* on *facts* that some other person is telling them
in a strange voice. Also, there is no "global" phenomenum here, new-age
believers are a very minute fraction of the world's population. very very
VERY minute, compared to the untold millions of moslems and hindus and
christians and shintus and so on. New Age "religion" is an odd, self-
contradictory mixture of beliefs, both old and new (i.e. "neo-pagan")
that says essentially, believe whatever you want, believe whatever feels
good to you. It is, as you so well put it, the result of people searching
for a new paradigm. That's fine. The old religions have certainly been very
disappointing in many ways, and modern society is very alienating.

===============================================================================
Kal    [e-mail]             My opinions are almost, but not quite,
                                     entirely unlike those of my employer.
===============================================================================

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU!nbp2a
From: [e-mail] (Natalie Beth Parkell)
Subject: Re: Shamans or visitors
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Virginia
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 20:20:39 GMT
Lines: 11

The shaman is a figure found in many tribal cultures around the
world, including many of our native North American tribes.  A
shaman would traditionally be a man who was a seer, a
visionary, one who tapped the supernatural powers of the
universe.  He sometimes posessed knowledge of medicine and mind
altering substances and was highly revered by the members of the
tribe to which he belonged.  I believe the Shamans you are
having concerns about have engaged in some mind altering
substances and are looking for some authentic mystical
experience like ones they have read about.  These people are
not aliens - no more than witches are considered "alien".
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 20:04:45 GMT
Lines: 31

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Randolph) writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes...
>>My "aura" is blue and yellow, and there is more aura on the left side
>>of my head. It sorta looks like fuzzy sparks radiating radially out of
>>my head. Looks kinda eerie...
>>Rich
>>[e-mail]
>
>Sounds like what you see through a $2 pair of binoculars to me...
>Let me guess - you were very brightly lit, against a dark background?
>
>And one more time:
>This has nothing to do with alt.alien.visitors. Please move it.

You mean cancel the post? Whyfor? And do you not see the possibilities?
If some can see auras, and alien auras are different, then we have a
method of alien detection.

BTW, netiquette says that one should -not- respond to an inappropriate
post. You are willfully and knowingly guilty of posting an inappropriate post.
And in the same post, you complain about it. Your hypocrisy is showing.

>-Tom R.   [e-mail]


Rich

[e-mail]


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!strath-cs!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!mcsdc1al
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: AURAS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 92 20:03:51 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
Lines: 4

Isn't the camera that photograph auras merely a Kirlian camera?

Has anyone out there read Linda Goodman's "Star Signs"?
That has some interesting views on auras and many, many other things.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Human yet not human, stuck here on earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 32
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 16:42:10 GMT

I put a question to you all, A thought,

    What of those who are or show all the signs of being human, born to
human parents and yet don't feel that they are human at all? That somehow
someone made a goof somewhere and that they were put in the wrong place at
the worng time? I know a few people like this, they are not crazy. In fact
they are  very intellegent, and they all have impressive psi ( epser )
capabilites. No carnival tricks were being used to fake people out.
They also long to go to the stars, they have a hard time understanding
Sapeins as they call normal humans. They offten complain that the psycic noise
radiation levels are to loud. And because of this it limits what they can do,
they seem to do better at night when it is a bit quieter, any of you who have
read any thing on epser ( psi ) ability and happenings know what I mean, for
those of you who don't, Psycic noise radiation is the noise that the mind
can send with out knowing it, also residule left over from people dying
It has been said that all people have some psi ability, if this is so, imagine
those who aren't trained and send loudly ( telepathic sending ) with out
realizing it? Imagine what it is like for those who do know how, mental shields
up all day to keep sane.
    I have noticed to that they talk about dying a lot, as if they would be
happier, I asked them why and they said they don't fit here and that
this world does not make sense to them, every thing that should work doesn't
and the tings that shouldn't do. In thier dreams they say they know how to
do things and when they awake the ability that they knew how to do
in the dream didn't transfer, its like someone takes it out their
hands moments before they wake and make them forget.
    They offten talk about going home, and home is space to them
not earth? Could you assist please in solving this riddle.?

Thank you
Terri

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (A figment of your imagination)
Subject: a.a.v. Frequently Asked Questions  [1 of 3]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: FAQ
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 22:04:34 GMT
Lines: 870

              alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions
                   This FAQ was last updated: 10/26/92
       It currently takes up 130k (around 67 printed pages) in all
                       Line width is about 75 char.
                             (Part 1 of 3)


Hello and welcome to the first posting of the alt.alien.visitors
Frequently Asked Questions. You may notice that this FAQ does not follow
the standard question asked, question answered format. The reason for
this is that this FAQ is designed to answer questions of people who are
new to this Usenet discussion group, and designed to be a useful
reference source to those interested in UFOlogy. I tried to keep a neutral
stance when I researched the many of the subjects covered in this FAQ;
however you may also notice that some of the material seem to be
one-sided. When doing some of the research I may have only used one book
or source, thus (as you may have noticed) some authors present
information from only one point of view and this has a tendency to be
carried over to this FAQ, do to the lack of information on the subject
from another point of view.  (deep huh? well I hope to include more
viewpoints as this FAQ grows.) Also please when reading information from
this FAQ (as one poster put it) take everything you read here with a very
large grain of salt. (rock salt) Even I don't believe all the information
that I have included in this FAQ. As I said its mainly a reference to
help you out. If you find yourself interested in a UFO related subject,
**DO RESEARCH** read books on the subject, dig into both sides, write
letters to the authors and researchers.

I would once again like to thank everyone who contributed to the FAQ,
I would like to especially thank Steve Gamble and Jeff Papineau for the work
they put into the UFO Organizations section.


Contents
========

Main Sections
-------------
0.1: About alt.alien.visitors
0.2: Posting to alt.alien.visitors
0.3: People who post to alt.alien.visitors
0.4: Common Sense Guidelines
0.5: Example Posting

Terminology and Definitions Used in UFOlogy
-------------------------------------------
2.00: a.a.v.
2:01: Astronomical Units (A.U.)
2:02: Close Encounters (CE) & Visual Sightings
2:03: Marfa Lights
2:04: Men In Black (MIB)
2:05: Tectonic Strain Theory (TST)
2:06: UFOnauts
2:07: Unusual Ground Markings (UGM)
2:08: USAF
2:09: Zine

Alien Races
-----------------
3.00: Arcturus
3.01: Aryans (Blondes)
3.02: Blues (Star Warriors)
3.03: Confederation of Humans
3.04: Greys
3.05: Orion Empire (Orion forces)
3.06: Pleiadians
3.07: Sirius
3.08: Reptoids
3.09: Vega

Abductions and Current Theories
------------------------------
4.00: About Abductions

UFOlogists
----------
5:00: Hopkins, Bud
5:01: Jacobs, Dr David
5:02: Klass, Philip J.
5:03: Marciniak, Barbara J.
5:04: Randles, Jenny

(start 2 of 3)
UFO Projects & Theories & Controversies
----------------------------------------
6.00: Aurora Project or "deep black" projects
6.02: NASA Footage September 10th
6.03: Planetoid (Wormwood)
6.04: Project Blue Book
6.05: Roswell Crash Incident

UFO Movies, Documentaries and TV Programs
----------------------------------------
= 7.00: TV Programs
7.01: E. T. Monitor (the Keystone Inspirational Network)
7.02: Hard Copy (??)
7.03: Intruders
7.04: National Geographic (PBS)
7.05: sightings (FOX)
7.06: UFO Incident, The
7.07: Unsolved Mysteries (NBC)

= 7.08: UFO VIDEOS
7.09: Close Up
7.10: Communion
7.11: UFO Coverup Live
7.12: UFO Documentary
7.13: UFO, The Films Prove It

UFO Magazines and Publications (UFOzines)
-----------------------------------------
8.00: Circular, The
8.01: Cerealogist, The
8.02: Connecting Link Magazine
8.03: CONTINUUM
8.04: Crop Watcher, The
8.05: Earth,
8.06: Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, The
8.07: Faithist Journal, The
8.08: Focus
8.09: Fortean Times,
8.10: Inner Light
8.11: International UFO Library Magazine
8.12: Magonia,
8.13: Orvotron Newsletter
8.14: Ovni Presence
8.15: Revelations of Awareness
8.16: Swamp Gas Journal
8.17: UFO Universe

UFO Book Publishers
-------------------
9.00: Advent Publishing Company
9.02: Arnerica West Publishers
9.03: Arcturus Book Service
9.04: Condor Books, Inc.
9.05: Document Research Services
9.06: Earth Star Publications
9.07: Eden Press
9.08: JACO Book Publishers
9.09: The Library of the New Essenes of Inyo
9.10: Luna Ventures
9.11: The Pleiades Project
9.12: UFO Audio-Video Clearing House
9.13: UFO Books
9.14: UFO Photo Archives
9:15: Worldwide UFO Newsclipping Bureau and Public Information Center 955
West

Miscellaneous Information
-----------------------
10.00: A UFO Book List
10.01: alt.alien.visitors archives (back issues)
10.02: Big Foot (Sasquatch)
10.03: Free UFO Class
10.04: Freedom of Information
10.05: Hidden Ancient Ruins
10.06: Inter Library Loans (ILL)
10.07: NASA Shuttle Footage
10.08: UFO Related anonymous FTP Sites

UFO Organizations                                  * Assumed Acronym
------------------
11.00: Aerial Phenomenon Research: The Indiana Group  . . . . .*(APR)
11.02: Aetherius Society, The
11.03: Ancient Astronaut Society    . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(AAS)
11.04: Ancient Truth Research Foundation    . . . . . . . . . .*(ATRF)
11.05: Awareness Reserch Foundation, Inc , The    . . . . . . .*(ARF)
11.06: Borderland Sciences Research Foundation  . . . . . . . . (BSRF)
11.07: British UFO Research Association . . . . . . . . . . . . (BUFORA)
11.08: California UFO     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(CUFO)
11.09: Citizens Against UFO Secrecy   . . . . . . . . . . . . . (CAUS)
11.10: Committee for the Scientific Investigation of
       Claims of the Paranormal Contactee   . . . . . . . . . . (CSICOP)
11.11: Computer UFO Network   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (CUFON)
11.12: Contactee
11.13: Cosmic Awareness Communications  . . . . . . . . . . . .*(CAC)
11.14: CSETI                . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (CSETI)
11.15: Delval UFO, Inc.
11.16: Fair Witness Project, Inc., The  . . . . . . . . . . . .*(FRP)
11.17: Federation, The
11.18: Flying Saucer Information Center . . . . . . . . . . . .*(FSIS)
11.19: Fortean Research Center, The

(start 3 of 3)
11.20: Fund for UFO Research, Inc.,The  . . . . . . . . . . . .*(FUFOR)
11.21: Gulf Breeze Skywatch   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(GBS)
11.22: Inner-Peace Prosperity Network . . . . . . . . . . . . . (IPPN)
11.23: Intercontinental UF Galactic Spacecraft
       - Research and Analytic Network  . . . . . . . . . . . . (ICUFON)
11.24: International Committeee for UFO Research . . . . . . . . (ICUFOR)
11.25: International Fortean Organization   . . . . . . . . . . (INFO)
11.26: Intruders Foundation
11.27: Island Skywatch
11.28: J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies  . . . . . . . . . (CUFOS)
11.29: Massachusetts Center for the study of
       Aerial Phenomena, The  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(MCSAP)
11.30: Multi-national Investigations Cooperative on
       Aerial Phenomena   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (MICAP)
11.31: MutuaL UFO Network   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (MUFON)
11.32: Mutual UFO Network of North Carolina, Inc.   . . . . . . (MUFON-NC)
11.33: National Investigations Committeee on UFOs  . . . . . . . (NICUFO)
11.34: National Sighting Research Center, The   . . . . . . . . (NSRC)
11.35: Nevada Aerial Research Group   . . . . . . . . . . . . . (NARG)
11.36: North American Circle  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . *(NAC)
11.37: North American Institute of Crop Circle Research   . . . (NAICCR)
11.38: Northamptonshire UFO Research Centre   . . . . . . . . . (NUFORC)
11.39: Northern UFO Network   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (NUFON)
11.40: Omega Communications
11.41: ParaNet (Paranormal Network) Information Service . . . . (PARANET)
11.42: Pennsylvania Association for the
       Study of the Unexplained . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (PASU)
11.43: Pnet
11.44: Portland UFO Group, The  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (PUFOG)
11.45: Roundtown UFO Society
11.46: Royal Priest Research  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(RPR)
11.47: Search for EXtraterrestrial Intelligence, The. . . . . . (SETI)
11.48: Sirian Rainbow Lodge   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(SRL)
11.49: SKYNET
11.50: Socie'Te' Belge d'Etude des Phenomenes Spatiaux  . . . . (SOBEPS)
11.51: Society for Scientific Exploration   . . . . . . . . . . (SSE)
11.52: Society for the Investigation of the Unexplained, The  . (SITU)
11.53: System Ready
11.54: Transcendental Communications A Division of LAMAT Research
11.55: UFO Contact Center International   . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOCCI)
11.56: UFO Fllter Center  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOFC)
11.57: UFO Information Retrieval Center . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOIRC)
11.58: UFO Investigators League . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOIL)
11.59: UFO, Paranormal and Conspiracy BBS, THE  . . . . . . . .*(UFOPCBBS)
11.60: UFO Reporting and Information Service. . . . . . . . . . (UFORIS)
11.61: UFO Study Group of Greater St. Louis
11.62: Ufology Research of Manitoba . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOROM)
11.63: United Aerial Phenomena Agency . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UAPA)
11.64: Universal Articulate Interdimensional
       Understanding of Science (UNARIUS Academy of Sciences) . (UNARIUS)
11.65: Victorian U.F.O. Research Society Inc. . . . . . . . . . (VUFORS)

Disclaimer
----------

FAQ Requests
------------

FAQ Suggestions
---------------

=== 0.1: About alt.alien.visitors
---------------------------------
alt.alien.visitor is a Usenet discussion group available through internet.
Currently a.a.v. is the only UFO related discussion group available on
Usenet. It caters to a wide rage of UFO related discussion from New Age
UFOlogy to Scientific UFOlogy. It currently receives around 36 posting
daily. All comments by me are indicated by the square brackets[]

=== 0.2: Posting to alt.alien.visitors
--------------------------------------
The following idea was suggested by [e-mail] and is
taken from [e-mail] (Melissa Wauford)'s "*** REC.ARTS.TV
POSTING GUIDELINES ***". I have adapted it to fit alt.alien.visitors, and
I feel that this is an excellent idea. I would recommend that you use this
system when posting to alt.alien.visitors.

alt.alien.visitors can be a controversial newsgroup with a wide variety
of discussed topics. A few topics may generate more traffic than others
and may contain subject matter related to UFOlogy that others wish to
filter out or concentrate upon.  In order to allow those who use rn or
some other method of pre-selecting articles to filter out (or save away)
postings about these heavy traffic subjects, an abbreviation scheme has
been created.  Please help out by starting your subject line with one of
the following abbreviations when posting about these topics. For example:

Subject: HOT - Dancing Aliens

or

Subject: OP: Grey finger snacks,(the trick is in how you fold them)

New abbreviations will be added as needed. Send suggestions directly to
me, and I'll add them to the list. Objections to any abbreviations should
probably be posted so that a consensus may be reached. Old abbreviations
will be deleted when no longer necessary.


Suggested Abbreviations by [e-mail]:
[revised by [e-mail]]

 ABD = Abduction information
  CE = Pertaining to UFO sightings and phenomena, Close Encounters,
       alien contact
  HA = Jokes & silliness
 HOT = Someone flaming someone else
 INV = Postings about alien invasions and conspiracies
MISC = Other categories like Atlantis/Mu/Spacemen, etc...
  NA = New Age stuff NEWS = UFO related news, upcoming conventions.
  OP = Opinions
 REP = Repostings of older post like Lear, Cooper, etc..
 SCI = Scientific (preferably not pseudo) findings on UFO related issues


== 0.4: Common Sense Guidelines
-------------------------------
When posting to any Usenet group please follow these general guidelines.

(1)  Do not post on subjects that clearly unrelated to the newsgroup.
     Take them to the appropriate news group for discussion.

     Example: Discussion of abortion, gun control, politics and other
     strictly non related UFO should not be posted on this news group.

(2)  Do not completely repost others peoples postings and then write your
     opinion about it. Selectively edit the the post to get the information
you
     need from it to make your point. The standard symbol used to show
     information from another post is the ">".

     Example of what not to do: Repost a long section of material quoted
     from a previous article, followed by "I agree" or words to that
     effect.

== 0.5: Example Posting
-----------------------
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: [e-mail] (John Doe)
Subject: OP: Roswell Incident
Date: Fri, 31 Apr 1992 16:54:39 GMT

In article <1597O38cc.040316.26314>[e-mail] (Ima Lier)
writes:

>.. it was in 1936 when the UFO crashed at Roswell ...
>Plus there were no witnesses!! Not a single person could be found
>to bring forth testimony.

According to my sources it happened in 1947 and lots of people saw it.
How can you say... [Etc.]
 -JD

=== 0.3: People who post to alt.alien.visitors
----------------------------------------------
Readers and writers of a.a.v. are made up of:

A) People that have had contact.(Rarely post... obvious reasons)
B) Government paid disinformation people. (Poor to fair fiction)
C) Questioning/Inquiring minds (post weak questions, but mean well)
D) Wanderers (Just passing through, make snide remarks if any)
E) A few who think aliens are out there but haven't/won't come here.
F) A few who think aliens are with us know but have had no contact.
G) Aliens (Grey, life sucking, invader of utopia)
H) Guys like me that just can't unsubscribe from this group. (It's just to
   much fun. Life looks darker and things aren't very clear. (guess this
   belongs in alt.consp....) But when all else falls through pull up a.a.v.
   and smile. Someone is always a little worse off than you are and here is
   one sure fired place to find one.
I) People who are not contactees, or new-agers, or sceptics, but are simply
   interested in high-strangeness phenomenon of all sorts (and generally try
   not to post snide comments or be simple minded!)

[If anyone wishes to add their humor to this list please mail me,
 but keep it clean: [e-mail]]

Main Source: [e-mail] (Rick O'leary)
Other Contributors:
[e-mail] (Kellie Matthews)

===Terminology and Definitions Used in UFOlogy
----------------------------------------------

2.00: Astronomical Units (A.U.)
------------------------------
An A.U. is a measurement of space. One A.U. is the distance from the earth
to the sun.

2.01: a.a.v.
------------
alt.alien.visitors One of the many Usenet discussion groups.

2:02: Close Encounters (CE) & Visual Sightings
----------------------------------------------
NL (nocturnal light)
   A simple visual sighting of a unidentified flying light seen at night.

ND (nocturnal disc)
   A simple visual sighting of a unidentified flying extended or structured
   light source seen at night.

DD (daylight disc)
   A simple visual sighting of a UFO seen during the day.

Close Encounters of the first kind (CE1, CEI)
   As first defined by Hynek, a CE1 is an observation of a UFO within 150
   yards.

Close Encounters of the second kind (CE2, CEII)
    The finding of physical evidence that a alien craft or race exists.
    Example: A burn where the craft has landed or the finding of material
    of unknown makeup.

Close Encounters of the third kind (CE3, CEIII)
    A visual sighting of an alien being or race.

Close Encounters of the forth kind (CE4, CEIV)
    An abduction of an individual by an alien being or race.


Close Encounters of the fifth kind (CE5, CEV)
    A direct contact or communication with alien being or race.
    Example: Billie Meier with the Pleiadians, U.S.Govt. with the
    Greys, or channeling.

Main Source:
[e-mail] (Janet Smith)
[e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)

2:03: Marfa Lights
------------------
Marfa lights  are balls of lights that appear, change different colors
and dance around in the air.  These lights where named after the town
that they have been appearing in, Marfa Texas. They have also been sited
in other areas. Some theories as to what they are include Ball lighting,
Car headlights, and Alien space ships. The last current sighting I'm
aware of was Marfa Texas on September 1 1992.

Main Source: Sightings, FOX Network airdate September 25, 1992

2:03: Men In Black (MIB)
------------------------
These are a group of individuals who are said to wear black suits and
drive and fly around in unmarked black cars and helicopters.  They go
about  threatening people who have claimed to have seen UFOs into not
talking about what they witnessed.

The very first occurrence of MIB was traced to a man named Albert K.
Bender.  He was the editor of a flying saucer publication called the
"Space Review" In the October 1953 issue he placed an announcement
stating that he had come across information that would solve the flying
saucer mystery but they could not print it because they were ordered not
to.  They then ended the announcement warning others in saucer work to be
"very cautious"  they then stopped their publications. Later in an
interview Bender stated that "three men wearing dark suits" had ordered
him to stop publishing flying saucer material, and  that he had complied
with the order because he had been "scared to death" of them. He later
published a book called "Flying Saucers and the Three Men in Black"

Mains Source: "A Review of MIBS (Men In Black) : A History" ParaNet File
Number: 00171 Published 1991 by ParaNet Information Service

Also see: Flying Saucers and the Three Men in Black by Albert K. Bender

2:05: Tectonic Strain Theory (TST)
----------------------------------
A theory of electromagnetic effects upon the human brain and/or the
physical environment, such that all Forteana including UFOs, ghosts, ESP,
sasquatch, and religious fervour can be explained as being caused by
seismic activity generating electromagnetic radiation which in turn makes
people think they are witnesses to an anomalous event. Alternatively, the
EMM radiation can luminesce so that it appears as a UFO.  Chief
proponent: Michael Persinger. A variant is the "Earth Lights" hypothesis
described by Paul Devereux.

Main Source: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)

UFO
------
Unidentified Flying Object. Official term used by the Air Force.

2:06: UFOnauts
--------------
A term used by the UFO community in reference to the alien abductors or
extraterrestrials.

2:07: Unusual Ground Markings (UGM)
-----------------------------------
A broad term which includes crop circles, "tripod marks", saucer nests,
burn marks, etc.

Main Source: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)

2:08: USAF
----------
United States Air Force

2:09: Zine
----------
magazine or newsletter pertaining to a specific subject.
circlezine - Crop Circle publication
   ufozine - UFO publication


=== Alien Races
---------------------
These are often talked about in books, Publcations and on this discussion
group.


3.00: Arcturus
--------------
Members of Confederations of Humans [will do more research later]

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371

3.01: Aryans (Blondes)
----------------------
Blond Nordic Humanoids who work with the greys. Said to be captured by
the Reptoids and also have implants. They are said to have a tendency to
switch their loyalties between the Reptoids and the Confederations of
Humans.

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371

3.02: Bllues (Star Warriors)
----------------------------
The Blues are said to have translucent skin, large almond shaped eyes and
small of stature. The main issue of their teaching was PURSUE YOUR
PASSION, follow your own way, do your own thing, don't be pressured into
being anything but what and who you are.

The information about the Blues comes from Robert Morningsky a
Hopi/Apache dancer. According to Morningsky the first alien contact
started about 1947 - 1948 with the Greys contacting the U.S. Government
to form a treaty with them. Another body of Aliens arrived, called the
Blues. The Blues advised the government not to deal with the greys saying
it would only lead to disaster. They told the U.S. to follow your own
path. They said they would would teach with peace and harmony if men
would disarm and listen. The military said no deal. So they left, but a
few decided to remain and stayed in Northern Mexico and Arizona and made
a treaty with the Hopi Indians. These Aliens are known by the Hopi as
Star Warriors. The greys started monitoring the Blues. So the Blues had
to flee the reservation and go into hiding, a few of the Elders went with
them.

The Hopi legend is that there were two races, the children of the feather
who came from the skies, and the children of the reptile who came from
under the earth. The children of the reptile chased the Hopi Indians out
of the earth, these evil under-grounders were also called two hearts.

Main Source: Post from: [e-mail] (Don Allen) "FILE: Star
  Warriors",Forwarded from "contact" by Sande Van der Straten, to Cathy
  Emerson, Dated 23 Aug 1992, 19:29

Also See: American Indian Magic by Brad Steiger


3.03: Confederation of Humans
------------------------------
An organization of alien groups born out of positive energy, that are
helping the human race along and desire to protect them.  Includes:
Vega, Arcturus, Sirius, Pleiades and other humanoids.

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371

3.04: Greys
-----------
This is the most commonly identified alien race in UFOlogy. Their are
many different views, stories and theories regarding them ranging from
the different New Age views to the different Scientific, and conspiracy
views.

Greys as presented by the Scientific Community:
 The Greys are the most commonly described race by abduction victims. In
this view they are considered a race with an unknown motives, and
agendas. They seem to be abducting, studying, testing and using various
individuals for their one unclear reasons. [See: Abductions and Current
Theories]

Greys as presented by the New Age Movement:
  In the new age movement the Greys are often associated as an evil race,
or a race with bad energy. They are often associated with many other
races, such as the Reptoids and their motives are known.

Greys as presented by Different Conspiracy Theories
  The different conspiracy theories are often a mix of the scientific and
new age views. The standard conspiracy base states that the Greys crashed
one or more of their space ships and they were found by the U.S.
Government. The Government them makes a secret treaty with the Greys
allowing them to abduct humans in exchange for their technology. The
conspiracy theories often end with the Greys not keeping their part of
the deal. [I will try and include some of the different conspiracy
theories when I have more time to research them in detail]

Their are descriptions of several types of Greys: they are all humanoid in
appearance, a head, main body, two arms, hands, legs, and feet.

1: The most commonly seen grey is around two to four feet tall, very
slender and delicate looking, small beings and light weight, extremely
penetrating black slanted eyes with no pupils, almost vestigial mouth
and nose, a very large head with a pointed chin. The skin color varies
from dark grey to light grey, tan to tanish grey, white to pale white.
They have no hair on their bodies.

2: Another commonly seen Grey is described similarly as above, except
their usually six inches taller, and seem to give the orders. A variation
of this same described individual is: same as above except eyes like big
black buttons and are rounded.

3: Another type of Grey are the small robot like beings, stocky and
little, with smooth rounded hat on top, with dark deep set holes for eyes
and a round O shaped mouth, square breastplate with concentric circles on
it, smell like burnt match heads, mushroom grey skin. These Greys are
often said to act like security guards.

Other variations are described as Reptilian like with claws an preying
mantis like. There have also been many report of cross breeds that are
not exactly human and not exactly Greys.

Main Sources:
Secret Life, by David M. Jacobs
Communion, by Whitley Strieber
A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371

Also See:
Missing Time, by Budd Hopkins
Intruders, by Budd Hopkins


3.05: Orion Empire (Orion forces)
---------------------------------
Those alien groups born out of negative energy such as the Reptoids and
the grays. [If this is wrong someone please correct me, I'll do more
research on this later]

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371


3.06: Pleiadians
----------------
The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star system
Pleiades. They are also from various times in our future, starting from
500 years from now to millions of years from now. The Pleiadian culture
is ancient and was "seeded" from another universe of love long before
Earth was created. They have formed a tremendous society which operates
with love, with ideas and ideals that we are yet unfamiliar with.

The Pleiadians started a project to contact and inspire earth humans to
take back their power and create a better reality for themselves. They
are here as ambassadors from another universe to help Earth through her
transition from the third dimension to the fourth dimension and to assist
each of us in our personal endeavors of awakening, remembering and
knowing. As this project has become more successful, more ETs have
joined the group, some from other systems. The group later changed its
name from Pleiadians to the Pleiadians Plus.

The Pleiadians say that their reasons for contacting us is that there is
a chance of tyranny in the future and they are coming back to inspire us
as much as possible so we will take charge of creating our own reality
and change the future.
   They teach a very empowering form of personal and social metaphysics,
with love and clarity. The Pleiadians speak as a collective and there are
no individuals identified. They do not appear in physical form although
they say they can. They say it is safer to come through the channel,  and
it does not attract as much attention.


Billie Meier's Contact from the Pleiades
Billie Meier was contacted over 130 times between 1976 and 1982 by a
female named Samjese who said she was from the star system Pleiades. She
was the first to telepathically contact Meier and tell him where to go
for the first physical contact. Meier had indepth conversations with
Samjese. The contact notes are published in following four books and are
out of print:

UFO ... Contact from the Pleiades Vol I & II Photo Journals (Vol I is in
        its second printing.)
UFO ... Contact from the Pleiades Prilimary Investigation Report
UFO ... Contact from the Pleiades Supplementary Investigation Report
Message From the Pleiades Vol 1 & 2 Light Years

There are 4 videos available on the Pleiades case.
Contact        $59.
The Beamship Trilogy   $99.
The videos are available from:
Genesis III Publishing, P.O. Drawer JJ, Munds Park, AZ 86017
[Also see: The Pleiades Project]

There is also a book available called Bringers of the Dawn - Teachings
from the Pleiadians by Barbara Marciniak.  They also have 2 to 3 hundred
tapes available.

Main source:
Information given by [e-mail]
Connecting Link Magazine Pleiadian article, Channeled by Barbara Marciniak

3.07: Sirius
-------------
Members of Confederations of Humans [will do more research later]

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371

3.08: Reptoids
---------------
A reptilian race from Draco bent on conquest,  They are said to be
controling the greys by means of an implant, the same one that the gray
are implanting into humans.  They are also said to be the master minds
behind the abduction plans. Their master plan involves using the newly
created 'Half-breeds' with implants to defeat the Confederations of
Humans. The Reptoids also use humans as food.  [Does this remind you of
the movie V?]

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371


3.09: Vega
----------
Members of Confederations of Humans [will do more research later]

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371


=== Abductions and Current Theories
-----------------------------------
4.00: About Abductions
----------------------
There are many people who believe they have been abducted by UFOnauts.
These abduction victims often experience memory loss and "missing time".
some of them have been able to recall their abductions from memory and
others have recalled their abductions by the aid of hypnosis. Often these
encounters involve being taken aboard an alien craft and examined by the
UFOnauts and put through a variety of physical and mental procedures.
Then the individuals are returned. Many of the abduction victims has
shown signs of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

Some of the major researchers who have studied the abduction field
include Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs, John Mach, Philip Klass, and Jenny
Randles.

There are several groups with distinct opinions. The dyed-in-the-wool
Skeptics, who who don't believe it. Others who are passing no verdict, but
are still examining  the evidence. Those who believe due to the
similarities of the abduction testimonies. Those who claim to have
information through means such as channeling. Those who claim to have had
first-person experiences, with automatic conscious recall. Those who
claim to have had first-person experiences, with recall under hypnotic
regression.

The opinions of some skeptics such as Klass believe that the hypnotists
themselves are leading the abduction victims unknowingly into believing
that they have had an abduction experience. The skeptics believe that the
the media has been saturated so much with the abduction material that when
people having nightmares or people who believe that they have experienced
the "missing time" are put under hypnosis, they draw upon what they have
seen in the media to fulfill the expectations of the hypnotist and
causes themselves to be put trough the trauma for that reason. They say
the nightmares are often caused by the sleeping disorder narcolepsy, and
the "missing time" is not an uncommon experience and is caused when the
mind is preoccupied by other matters. They often give the advice to go to
clinical doctors, and not to contact an abductionist.

Other researchers such as Jacobs and Hopkins believe that there is
something physical causing the abduction experiences. Hobkins has stated
that he believes that the abduction are real and that the recounts of the
abductions are to similar to each other to be anything but the truth.
Jacobs takes a slightly different approach, he has been categorizing all
the accounts and trying to find patterns in the testimonies. Through this
method he come up with new more indepth theories regarding the
abductions. [I'll give these late when I have time]

The Channelers believe that the abductions are part of a battle between
good energy forces and evil energy forces. [See Reptoids, Greys and
Pleiadians]

There people on the net who believe they have had personal experiences
with Alien contacts or abductions. Some have posted accounts of their
experiences. Many others decline to post due to attacks by skeptics.

There has been possible material evidence of UFOs or Alien contacts. There
are abundant material traces, even excepting those confiscated by the
military. Material traces include burned grass and earth where UFOs have
landed, UFOs shown on radar tapes, UFOs on film and in photos. Bodily
traces on abductees include scoop-marks in the flesh, incisions, burns,
apparent radiation exposure, bruises, inflammation, etc. Whether any of
these is considered *evidential*, however, is a subjective value call.

For anyone who is interested in abduction help call:

  Bill Knell
  Director of Island Skywatch
  [phone] (New York)

He can get you in touch with the right people in your area and has a lot
of videos, tapes and books on UFOs and abductions. He is also a very
experienced researcher/investigator.

Main Sources:
UFO-Abductions: A Dangerous Game, by Philip Klass
Secret Life, by David M. Jacobs
Communion, by Whitley Strieber
[e-mail] (Denise Solis)
A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371

Also See:
Missing Time, by Budd Hopkins
Intruders, by Budd Hopkins
Alien Abductions: Mystery Solved by Jenny Randiles


=== UFOlogists
--------------
5:00: Hopkins, Bud
------------------
Bud Hopkins graduated from Oberlin college. He is also a painter and
sculptor. He has been investigating UFO report for the lat 12 years.

Bud Hopkins c/o Random House
201 E. 50th Street
New York, NY 10022

5:01: Jacobs, Dr David
----------------------
David Jacobs is an Associate Professor of History at temple University.
He has worked with over 300 UFO abduction witnesses. He works closely
with a number of other abduction researchers including Budd Hopkins.
Dr. Jacobs moderates an abduction conference on ParaNet, and is accessible
via their dial-up BBS node (303-431-8797) or on Internet through a list
server. [See ParaNet]

Dr. David Jacobs
Department of History
Temple University
Philadelphia, Pa 19122

5:02: Klass, Philip J.
----------------------
For thirty-five years a senior editor with Aviation Week and Space
Technology magazine, is recognized as the world's leading skeptical
authority in Unidentified Flying Objects and has written three books on
the subject. Klass, a graduate electrical engineer, is a founding Fellow
of the Committeee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the
Paranormal. He was honored in 1973 for his accuracy as a techjournalist
by being named a Fellow at the Institute of Electrical and Electronics
Engineers.

Main Source: The about the author paragraph inUFO-Abductions: A Dangerous
  Game, by Philip Klass, C1988

5:03: Marciniak, Barbara J.
---------------------------
Barbara J. Marciniak is an internationally known trance channel from
North Carolina. She began channeling in 1988. The strength and purity of
the message she is bringing very quickly captured the hearts of many
seekers looking to be all that they can be. Barbara has channeled at
various Expos and for groups across the United States, in Peru and in
Germany.

You may contact Barbara at:
Bold Connections                Connecting Link Magazine
P. O. Box 6521,                 9392 Whitneyville Rd.
Raleigh, NC 27628.              Alto, MI. 49302-9694

5:04: Randles, Jenny
--------------------
Jenny Randles
37 Hasthbank Road
Stockport, Cheshire SK3 0UP

                            Bitnet: Fsdlk@alaska
( FAQ Part 1 of 3)        Internet: [e-mail]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~  ...........  .......          .           .       .            ~
~  .            .      .        Nasha tai no kasei!         .   . ~
~  ...          .......           .            .                  ~
~  .            .               Prosperity and Long Life, To You. ~
~  .... xisting . hantom              .             .             ~
~                             .                            .      ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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From: [e-mail] (A figment of your imagination)
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              alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions
                   This FAQ was last updated: 10/26/92
       It currently takes up 130k (around 67 printed pages) in all
                       Line width is about 75 char.
                             (Part 2 of 3)


=== UFO Projects & Theories & Controversies
--------------------------------------------


6.00: Aurora Project or "deep black" projects
----------------------------------------------
The "Black Projects" are governmental projects that are considered
technological secrets. These can range from laser and particle beams to
top secret aircraft. The "Aurora Project" is the name given to one of
these types of projects by the industry experts involving two new types
of reported aircraft. These aircraft where observed in the south west US
and are said to have been developed at highly classified government
facilities in the Nevada desert. There are two types of advanced aircraft
reported.

One is nick named the "Pulser" aircraft. There have been many sights of
this aircraft by several different  witnesses. When sighted it has
repetitively been described as "A high-speed aircraft characterized by a
very loud, deep, rumbling engine noise (1-2 Hz pulse rate) reminiscent of
heavy-lift rockets."  The smoke trail of the aircraft is described as
being segmented and in a linked sausage shape. (Or another good example
would be to look at one side of your coat zipper, un-zipped, with the
teeth facing you) It is also described as a high-altitude aircraft that
crossed the sky at extremely high speeds. Both ground based and airborne
observers have reported it to be seen flying at altitudes above 50,000
ft. observers have reported see the aircraft as a single bright light
that seldom changed direction, however speed changes where observed. One
observer estimated that it covered 350 miles in 6 minutes. (3500
miles/hr)


This this aircraft may indeed exist. There has been research in to what
are called Pulsed Detonation Engines (PED's) also refereed to as Pulsed
Detonation Wave Engines. These are different type of engine than the
pulse jet engines, which is already publicly know, and has been tested in
aircraft. The PED's are said to be in laboratory and computer analysis
level of development (reported oct of 91) The PED's exhaust emission
produces smoke trails that closely match the pulser aircraft. Simulations
of theses engines are said to be able to propel large aircraft in the
"Mach 0.2-3.0 flight regime"

How PED's work: PED's use shock waves created in a detonation to compress
the fuel-oxidizer mixture prior to combustion. A cylinder chamber
designed to support the detonation is constructed with a flat forward end
which makes up the thrust wall. Air along with fuel is fed into the
engine from behind the thrust-wall. The detonation wave created travels
forward to the thrust wall at about Mach 4 and compresses the fuel-air
mixture, promotes supersonic combustion and causes a pressure rise in the
engine. The wave then strikes the thrust wall and rebounds accelerating
the combustion products towards the nozzle. Some of the products are
ejected by the wave to the outside air-stream through the air inlet
openings creating a toroidal vortex out side the engine. Then the cycle
repeats.

The said advantages of this type of engine are:
* Theoretically a higher fuel efficiency than a "constant pressure engine"
* Engines can be produced in many sizes and thrust outputs from a few
  inches in diameter at a thrust of several pounds to  larger one that can
  output in the thousands of pounds range.
* They have high thrust to weight ratio (ie.lighter engine, more thrust)
* They are mechanically simple, and have few moving parts.
* They could operate in or out of the atmosphere using fuel oxidizers.


There is very little information on the other reported aircraft. It is
reported as "A triangular-shaped, quiet aircraft". This craft has been
seen by many observers and flying with several F-117 stealth aircraft.


Main Sources:
Aviation Week & Space Technologies, (Oct 1, 90 pp20-23) &
  (oct 28, 91 pp68-69)

Also See:
Aviation Week & Space Technologies [please note: one of these dates is a
December 24, 1990 pg. 41-44         couple days off, on the actual
June 20,     1991 pg. 20-21         magazine date.]
March 9,     1992 pg. 66-67
May 11,      1992 pg. 62-63

6.02: NASA Footage September 10th
---------------------------------
Space Ice or an alien craft dodging a missile. That's the big debate on
the footage taken by an unmanned camera on the space shuttle. One side
says that it is space Ice accelerated by the space shuttles thrusters.
The other side says the excelleration of some the objects don't follow
the correct paths don't match physics. They speculate its a alien craft
dodging a Starwars missile.

Main source: Sightings, FOX Network, airdate September 25, 1992

6.03: Planetoid (Wormwood)
--------------------------
Beyond Pluto astronomers believe there is a ring of ice chunks circling
the solar system 37 to 59 A.U. from the sun. They have called the ice
belt the Kuiper belt. Beyond that astronomers say there is a similarly
composed Oort cloud which forms a sphere around our planetary system that
stretches two light years in distance. A tiny red spot of light was
recorded in hawaii in October of 92,  which is thought to be the first
component of the Kuiper belt ever observed. The object was named 1992 QB1.
It is about 200 km across and 5.1 billion km away from the sun (41.2
a.u.). The object is fairly red, suggesting a surface rich in organics.
The current position is, for 0h UT on September 15, 1992:  0h 00.09+0d
01'.7 (2000.0). It is moving retrograde at only 3" per hour. David Jewitt
and Jane Luu discovered it using the University of Hawaii's 2.2-meter
telescope on Mauna Kea.  They have been searching for such an object for
the last five years. The first images were secured August 30, but just as
with the discovery of Pluto in 1930 the discovery was kept "under wraps"
for awhile to allow a better assessment. Jewitt believes it to be one of
the larger members of the Kuiper belt. Jewitt says that it will take two
months to confirm the object.

Another theory involving the planetoid comes to us from channelers. It is
a hollowed out body that was moved here by the Reptoids, in order to
transport an army of Grays or Reptoids. [sorry, I'm not sure which, I
haven't had a chance to research this in-depth] It is now  parked outside
the orbit of Pluto.  It is currently being used as a base by the
Reptoids.

Then there is also the theory that the planetoid may be the star that is
mentioned in the Bible as "Wormwood" (also translated as "bitterness");
which when the "third angel" in the book of Revelation blew his trumpet,
fell to the earth and poisoned one third of the earths waters.  Another
interesting fact is that "chernobyl" (as in the Nuclear power plant in
"Russia" that had a meltdown) in Ukranian also means Wormwood.

Main Source:
"Beyond Pluto" by MichaaelD. Lemonick, p. 59, Time Magazine Sep. 28, 92
"#Object beyond Pluto", Compuserve article #110734 S14/News/Current Events
  by Roger Sinnott, 14-Sep-92
A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371
Bible,  Revelation chapter 8 Verses 10 & 11


6.04: Project Blue Book
-----------------------
On Sep 30 ,1947  Lt General Twining of ACM expressed his opinion that there
was sufficient substance in reports to warrant a study on UFOs. On Dec.
23,1947 Project Sign was established to collect, collate, evaluate, and
disseminate all information concerning UFO sightings and phenomena.
Project sign completed it evaluations in Feb of 1949 and concluded "No
definite and conclusive evidence is yet available that would prove or
disprove the existence of these UFOs as real aircraft of unknown and
unconventional configuration." Project Sign was changed to Project Grudge
on Dec.16, 1948. Project Grudge recommended that the investigation and
study of UFO reports be reduce in scope. In early 1950 UFO reports by the
public increased. This prompted Project Grudge to be changed to Project
Blue Book in march of 1952.

Project Blue Book goals were to find out:
1: To find an explanation for all the reported sighting of UFO's.
2: To determine if the UFO posed any security threat to the United States.
3: To determine if UFO's exhibit any advanced technology which the U.S.
   could Utilize.

When the project ended the Air Force concluded:
1: There is no evidence that any UFOs are "extraterrestrial vehicles"
2: No UFO has ever given any indication of a threat to the national
   security.
3: There is no evidence that UFO's represent technological developments
   or principals beyond present-day scientific knowledge.

You can get the project Blue Book papers from Any Federal Repository which
has copies of National Archives material (there are various scattered
around the country). Or, you can go to the National Archives in
Washington, DC. They're on microfilm, like the Census records that
genealogists use.

[I will finish researching this later, I had to return the book before I
 was done. :-(]

Main Source:
Project Blue Book: The Top Secret UFO Findings Revealed,
  By Brad Steiger, 1976
[e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)

6.05: Roswell Crash Incident
----------------------------
  The Roswell Incident started with sightings of UFOs on June 24, 1947. In
July 2,  of the sane year Mac Brazel heard a loud crash.  The next day he
went out Horseback riding with a neighbor and came upon a field with
debris scattered about.

 The debris field was 3/4 of a mile long and 300 feet wide. It was
oriented in a northwest to southeast direction.  There was a gouge in the
northwest side of the debris field that was 500 feet long and 10 feet
wide.  The debris on the field mostly consisted of I-beams and parchment
like, paper thin pieces of metal material. The material was very light in
weight, a dull gray in color, and most pieces were 6 to 7 inches in
length.  Some pieces that were even thinner that paper could not be
broken in half,  cut or burned.
  Mac Brazel collected several pieces of the debris and went back to his
ranch.  On July 6,  Brazel went into Roswell to report what he had seen
and to show a piece of the debris to sheriff Wilcox. The sheriff decided
to call the local air base. During this time Frank Joyce called in from
the local radio station to see if anything newsworthy was happening
around town. Brazel gave him the information about what he had found.
  Major Jesse A. Marcel and a few other military personal arrived from
the base only a few minutes after the sheriff had finished  talking to
the people at the base.  Brazel and the military personal left and went
back to the Ranch. The next morning (July 7) they went to the crash
sight. The military retrieved some of the debris and returned to Roswell.
  On July 8, the military came back and sealed off the area, They took
Brazel into custody.  That same day they found a second crash sight two
and 1/2 miles southeast of the first.  Barney Barnett and 4
archaeologists  had stumbled onto the new sight a few minutes before the
military had gotten there.  At the sight was found a "pretty good sized
metallic dull gray object" and 4 small alien bodies. They were 4 to 5
feet tall,  with large pair shaped heads, small bodies and skinny arms
and legs.  They had two large eyes,  no ears and no hair. Their skin was
pinkish grey and leathery.  They were wearing a one piece grey suits. The
civilians were escorted out of the area when the military arrived.

  On July 9th the military escorted Brazel to the radio station , there
he told Frank Joyce that he saw a weather balloon. He left again with the
military and didn't get back to his ranch until around July 15.  Later
when asked about what had happened Brazel said he had given a oath and
could not talk about it.
  The Incident remained closed and the public and  UFO research
organizations at large accepted the weather balloon story until 1970 when
Jesse A.  Marcel broke the silence and told his part in the story.

Main source: UFO Crash at Roswell by Kevin D. Randle & Donald R. Schmitt
  Published 1991 by Avon Books

=== UFO Movies, Documentaries and TV Programs
--------------------------------------------
= 7.00: TV Programs
------------
7.01: E. T. Monitor (the Keystone Inspirational Network)
--------------------------------------------------------
   - A program that originates from Pennsylvania, it has a pre-recorded
and a live section. The person who runs it sells packets of books by
mail-order. He likes to think that he is presenting irrefutable proof not
only of the existence of UFOs but also of the Government's Conspiracy to
keep them secret and frequently features people like Randall Terry.

Main Source: [e-mail]

7.02: Hard Copy (??)
--------------------
   - Belgian UFO's, 1990
   - more European

7.03: Intruders
---------------
    - CBS miniseries June? 1992,
      Based off Budd Hopkins book Intruders

7.04: National Geographic (PBS)
-------------------------------
   - English Crop Circles, 1991

7.05: sightings (FOX)
---------------------
   - Crop circles 1992
   - Mexico video Sightings, Sept 11, 1992
   - NASA Shuttle UFO/(debated Ice chunk), July? 1992

7.06: UFO Incident, The
-----------------------
   - NBC Oct 20, 1975,
   - the Betty Hill abduction story Based on the book "Interrupted
     Journey: Two lost hours aboard a flying saucer" by John Fuller

7.07: Unsolved Mysteries (NBC)
------------------------------
   - Eupen, Belgium UFO, 1991
   - Cash/Landrum UFO, 1990
   - 1965 Kecksburg, PA  UFO, 1990
   - Widthville, W VA UFO, 1992

= 7.08: UFO VIDEOS
------------------
7.09: Close Up
--------------
    - interview w/ two Rhode Island UFO enthusiasts 885-0366, 1992
      MUFON Box 1122, Davisville, RI  02854

7.10: Communion
---------------
    -Based off the book Communion bu Whitley Strieber

7.11: UFO Coverup Live
----------------------
    - UFO film from Guatemala, 1988
      (Note from [e-mail]: most convincing footage I've seen)

7.12: UFO Documentary
---------------------
    - Jesse Marcel interview, 1982

7.13: UFO, The Films Prove It
-----------------------------
    -A melange of television tapes, 1992

=== UFO Magazines and Publications (UFOzines)
---------------------------------------------
[I will include the magazines from the UFO groups later]

8.00: The Circular
------------------
58 Kings Rd., West
End, Woking, Surrey GU24 9LW, England

8.01: The Cerealogist
---------------------
20 Paul St., Frome, Somerset,
BA11 1DX, England

8.02: Connecting Link Magazine
------------------------------
Connecting Link Magazine
9392 Whitneyville Rd.
Alto, MI. 49302-9694

8.03: CONTINUUM
---------------
The official news magazine for ParaNet and MICAP. It is published quarterly
and provides thought-provoking information and articles written by leading
UFOlogists. This magazine provides global insight and reflects material
carried over the world-wide ParaNet Information Service network.
Subscriptions are $18.00/year and are available by sending checks for U.S.
funds to:  ParaNet, Box 172, Wheat Ridge, CO  80034-0172.

8.04: The Crop Watcher
---------------------
3 Selborne Court, Tavistock Close, Romsey, Hampshire, SO517TY, England

8.05: Earth
-----------
61 Ran elagh, Ave., Bradford, BD10 0HF, UK.

8.06: The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic
(EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic,
Incorporated.  The ASA is a non-profit organization dedicated to the
advancement of amateur and professional astronomy and space exploration,
as well as the social and educational needs of its members.

ASA membership application is open to all with an interest in astronomy
and space exploration.  Members receive the Journal of the ASA  and the
Astronomical League's REFLECTOR magazine. Members may also purchase
discount subscriptions to ASTRONOMY and SKY & TELESCOPE magazines.

For information on membership, you may contact the Society at any of the
following addresses:

Astronomical Society of the Atlantic (ASA)
c/o Center for High Angular Resolution Astronomy (CHARA)
Georgia State University (GSU)
Atlanta, Georgia  30303, U.S.A.
Phone: [phone] leave your address and/or receive the latest
                      Society news.
Internet:
[e-mail]

Modem:
ASA BBS: [phone], 300/1200/2400 Baud.

Back issues of the EJASA are also available from anonymous FTP at:
chara.gsu.edu (131.96.5.29)

8.07: The Faithist Journal
--------------------------
Kosmon Publishing
2324 Suffock Avenue
Kingman, Arizona 86401
 C. Benfield (President)
Kasandra Kares (Editor)
Publication is The Faithist Journal
Founded  in 1970
A non-profit organization which publishes "The Faithist Journal"
(Bi-Monthly), magazines and books dealing with New Age topics, including
UFOs.

8.08: Focus
-----------
William L. Moore Publications & Research
See: Fair Witness Project, Inc.
4219 West Olive Avenue Suite #247
Burbank, California 91505
Williarn L. Moore
213-463-0542
Publishing entity for Antares Publishing, The Fair Witness Project, Inc.,
and "Focus" magazine (which specializes in UFOs, New Age, Metaphysical, and
Occult research; offers a substantial listing of books, government document
reprints, papers, pamphlets, back issues of George Van Tassel's
"Proceedings of the College of Universal Wisdom" newsletter, research
files, folios, back issues of "Focus" (the Fair Witness Project
newsletter), cassette tapes, and video tapes for sale.Discounts on various
items are available to booksellers and other qualifie buyers."Focus"
subscribers are entitled to a 25% discount on all items

8.09: Fortean Times
-------------------
1 Shoebury Road, London E6 2AQ UK.

8.10: Inner Light
-----------------
Inner Light Publications
Box 753 New Brunswick,
New Jersey 08903 Publications
Timothy Green Beckley (Publisher & Editor)
Publication is Inner Light
A diverse entity which publishes numerous UFO-related books, periodicals,
tapes, etc., "UFO Review" magazine and the monthly "Inner Light" magazine;
also sponsors numerous UFO conferences and symposiums throughout the United
States.

8.11: International UFO Library Magazine
----------------------------------------
11684 Ventura Blvd. #708 Studio City, CA 91604.

8.12: Magonia
-------------
5 James Terrace, London SW14 8HB, UK.

8.13: Orvotron Newsletter
-------------------------
orvotron bi-monthly newsletter
Solinus and Kortron

We are  pleased to send a "Love Copy" of the most current newsletter to
anyone you think will be interested. Just pass your friend's name and
address on to us and we will mail out the issue compliments of you. Back
issues contain much information which is still relevant and may provide
some clarity on subjects discussed in subsequent newsletters. Love
donations (which should be made payable to Judith A. Wells) are greatly
appreciated and go to Spirit's work to create Heaven on Earth.

 A subscription also entitles you to log-on the Spirit Bulletin Board
Service, a computer/modem system with files  on alternate energy,
UFO/extraterrestrial happenings, politics, science, medical information,
the conspiracy and much more. The files are updated frequently and we
encourage you to use and contribute to this "library at your fingertips".
You may access this information 24 hours a day by calling via computer
1-704-297-5973.

For a year's subscription (six bimonthly issues) and userstatus on
Spirit BBS please send $30.00 (USA) or $40.00 (all other countries)
in check or money order (no cash please) made payable to:

Judith A. Wells           Phone   - [phone]
Route 2, Box 309B         FidoNet - 1:379/703
Vilas, NC  28692          BBS     - 704-297-5973

       ,
8.14: Ovni Presence
-------------------
CP 342, CH-1800, Vevey 1, Switzerland.

8.15: Revelations of Awareness
------------------------------
"Revelations of Awareness" published by Cosmic Awareness Communications
(CAC).

Revelations of Awareness is a Newsletter that covers UFO as they relate
to channeling and the New Age movement.  All the information given in the
newsletter is information recorded from channeling sessions. The format
of of the news letter begins with a question asked of the Cosmic
Awareness, then replies are given by the Awareness through the rest of
the news letter starting out with the phrase "This Awareness indicates..."

The following Statement appears at the top of every Issue:

Cosmic Awareness is the force that expressed Itself through Jesus of
Nazareth, the Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, Edgar Cayce and other great
avatars who served as 'Channels' for the 'Heavenly Father' and who speaks
again today as the world begins to enter the 'New Age' of spiritual
consciousness and awareness. Since 1963 Cosmic Awareness has been
communicating through carefully trained channels. This information is for
those who desire to help in bringing in the new age. Throughout the
thousands of 'Readings' given through these various channels, Cosmic
Awareness tells us not to believe anything, but to question, explore,
doubt, and discover for yourself, through your own channel what is the
truth. Cosmic Awareness will only 'indicate' and 'suggest'. Neither C.A.C
or any of the Interpreters is responsible for anything Cosmic Awareness
states in any of these readings, nor does C.A.C. or the Interpreters
necessarily agree with the statements of Cosmic Awareness. The
interpreters interpret the energies as they see them in trance levels and
are not personally responsible for what is said. This is entirely the
responsibility of the editor. Members of C.A.C. are invited to send in
questions of general interest to ask Awareness for possible publication
in this newsletter.

Paul Shockley, Interpreter.

The Revelations of Awareness comes out every three weeks The memberships
which are available (using the Honer system) are:
Limited Income $30 per year   $9 quarterly
Individual     $42 per year   $12 quarterly
Family         $52 per year   $20 quarterly
Contributing   $77 per year   $25 quarterly
Sponsoring     $144 per year  $40 quarterly
Benefactor     $500 per year  $150 quarterly
Patron         $1000 per year $250 quarterly
Endowing       $5000 per year $1500 quarterly

Outside USA Add $15.00 per year to cover postage (including Canada)
To send off for information about the C.A.C. or to subscribe to their
news letter write to: Cosmic Awareness Communications
                      P.O. Box 115
                      Olympia, WA 98507

8.16: Swamp Gas Journal
-----------------------
The Swamp Gas Journal Covers a variety of scientific UFO related Phenomena.
It reviews articles, books and research publications put out by different
researchers and organizations.

The Swamp Gas Journal is free with limited distribution, but is available
primarily through zine exchanges, regularly contributing Fortean info, or
by providing two (2) International Postal Reply Coupons in lieu of a
subscription (to cover postage).

The Swamp Gas Journal is a ufozine published irregularly by:

Ufology Research of Manitoba
Box 1918
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Canada   R3C 3R2

The SGJ is also available on an experimental basis on internet by e-mail
to: [e-mail]

8.17: UFO Universe
------------------
GCR Plublishing Group, Inc.
1700 Broadway, 34th Floor
New York, New York 10019
Publishes "UFO Universe" magazine.
Global Communications Refer to: Inner Light Publications

=== UFO Book Publishers
-----------------------
9.00: Advent Publishing Company
-------------------------------
P.O. Box 3748
Carson City, NV  89702
Publish book and the Phenox Project Reports.

9.02: Arnerica West Publishers
------------------------------
P.O. Box 6451 Tehachapi, California 93582
George Green Telephone Number : 805-822-9655
Publishes a wide variety of books and tapes dealing with New Age subjects
and UFO phenomenon.

9.03: Arcturus Book Service
---------------------------
1443 S.E. Port St. Lucie Blvd.
Port St. Lucie, Florida 34952, USA
Robert Girard & Monica Williams-Girard

Arcturus Book Service Catalog
Maintains a listing of UFO-related books. Their goal is to provide a wide
selection of books relating to the study of unexplained phenomena. Arcturus
provides a publication; "Leading Edge, the bi-monthly newsletter of the
Nevada Aerial Research Group.
Subscriptions for monthly Arcturus Book Service Catalog available for $6.00
in the U.S.,
Canada, and Mexico; $12.00 in Europe and South America
Arcturus pays for UFO-related books, manuscripts and is interested in being
informed of all new titles released.

9.04: Condor Books, Inc.
------------------------
351 West 54th Street
New York, New York 10019
Al Weiss (Publisher)
212-586 -4432
Publishes numerous books dealing with the UFO phenomena. At one time,
Condor Books published "UFO Universe" magazine;"UFO Universe" is now
published by:
GCR Publishing Group, Inc.,
1700 Broadway, 34th Floor,
New York, New York 10019.

9.05: Document Research Services
--------------------------------
PO Box 10011
Berkeley,  Ca. 94709-5011

They provide declassified govt. documents and an index
of UFOs in the New York Times 1947-1987
Send SASE for a list of documents

9.06: Earth Star Publications
-----------------------------
P.O. Box 117
Paonia, Colorado 81428
Ann Ulrich (Editor & Publisher)
303-527-3257
The Star Beacon
A self-publishing service which will perforrn typesetting, layout,
printing, and shipping of self-published books for a one-time fee. After
initial fee is paid, the author keeps lOO% of any profits
generated from the book. Ann Ulrich is associated with the UFO Contact
Center International as one of its Associate Directors.

9.07: Eden Press
----------------
Box 399
Careywood, Idaho 83809
Desiree Eden
208-683-2439
The publishing arm of the Planetary Professional Citizens Committeee (PPCC),
which is no longer in existence due to the death of its Director, Jerome
Eden, in 1989. However, EDEN Press still pro- vides a wide range of books
dealing with the UFO phenomenon.

9.08: JACO Book Publishers
--------------------------
P.O. Box 3135
Prescott, Arizona 86302
John H. Andrews
602-778-0018
JACO Book Publishers provides many UFO and Extraterrestrial-related books.

9.09: The Library of the New Essenes of Inyo
--------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 257
June Lake, California 93529
71448-7405
Nicholas Faust (Curator)
Originally known as "The School of Thought" which had been started by Hope
Troxell in 1960. It's original focus was UFO literature, especially that
dealing with contactees. Hope Troxell died in 1979 and The School of
Thought closed in 1980.In 1980 became The Library of the New Essenes of
Inyo. It assumed Hope Troxell's UFO materials and continually added to it
over the years. The Library also sells copies of Hope Troxell's published
material.

9.10: Luna Ventures
-------------------
P.O. Box 398
Suisun, California 94585
Publishes the Luna Ventures Catalog" which is a comprehensive listing of
available newsletters, books, microfiche, magazines, etc. for sale. Luna
Ventures will also accept manuscripts for publication.

9.11: The Pleiades Project
--------------------------
P.O. Box 386 Atwood, Ca 92601
Randolph Winters :213-281-6282
Terra  (Contact)
Founded in: 1985
A one-man organization for the dissemination of the information received by
Billy Meier from his Pleiadian contacts. Mr. Meier receives messages from
his contacts of the Pleiades star formation. The Pleiades Project compiles
these messages and offers them in audio and video formats. "Contact Terra"
is a quarterly newsletter which contains updated information and news about
Mr. Meier's contacts.
The Meier Chronicles VHS/Beta - $59.00 (82 minutes)
The Movie Footage     VHS/Beta - $49.00 (1 hour)
The Metal Analysis     VHS/Beta - $39.00 each (45 minutes)
The Entire Trilogy - $99.00 (save $188.00)
Each audio cassette $20.00 plus  postage & handling

9.12: UFO Audio-Video Clearing House
------------------------------------
P.O. Box 342
Yucaipa, Ca]ifornia 92399-0342
David Aaron (Director)
714-795-3361
Founded on May 18, 1988 and1232 members.
Offers an updated listing of UFO radio & television programs on video and
audio tape, going back to 1954. Video tapes are offered in Beta and VHS
format. Over 50% of their available product is donated by members.

9.13: UFO Books
---------------
P.O. Box 1053 - 514 First Street Florence, Arizona 85232
Christine (Stevens) Cox
602-868-4273
Christine Cox distributes UFO-related books, some of which were written and
edited by Wendelle Stevens (See: UFO Photo Archives), who is her father.
UFO Books also provides periodic flyers which contain UFO-related books,
photos, and calendars for sale.

9.14: UFO Photo Archives
------------------------
P.O. Box 17206
Tucson, Arizona 85710
Wendelle C. Stevens
UFO Journal Of Facts
Offers UFO-related books, most of which concentrate on, and thoroughly
investigate, individual cases. UFO Photo Archives gears its material for
those who want more in-depth knowledge about individual cases instead of a
broad overview of many cases.
In addition to books, UFO Photo Archives also sells UFO calendars and
posters. All books, posters, and calendars are sold through mail order only
and must be prepaid, including postage.
Their publication, "UFO Journal Of Facts" is a new magazine, filled with
color pictures and reports, concentrating on factual UFO investigative
reporting.

9:15: Worldwide UFO Newsclipping Bureau and Public Information Center 955
West
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Lancaster Road Suite 420
Orlando, Florida 32809
Provides a 16-20 page monthly report of worldwide UFO news clippings (all
foreign news stories are translated into English).
Subscription costs:
$24.95 /6 months $47.50/ one year
Special on Back Issues: all of 1988 for $39.95.
Besides the newsclipping service, Worldwide UFO also offers UFO-related
audio and video tapes (VHS format, approximately 2 hours in length) for
sale at the following prices:
Audio Tape - $ 4.00/ tape (buy two, get one free: no limit) Video Tape -
$20.00/ tape (buy two, get one free: no limit)

=== Miscellaneous Information
-----------------------------
10.00: alt.alien.visitors archives (back issues)
------------------------------------------------
Occasionally I have seen requests for information on past articles in
alt.alien.visitors. If you desire something, I have the entire newsgroup
archive back to July 13, 1992. I access it frequently. I have no way to
ftp it to another system for public access but would be glad to email
portions of it upon request. The responses are not guaranteed to be
correct or complete.

You can email me at [e-mail] and I will do my best.
[e-mail] (Gregg Brown)

10.01: A UFO Book List
-------------------------------
I'd like to take this opportunity to remind people of my UFO bibliography
file, and to solicit contributions and book comments for it.  The file
can be ftp'd from paul.rutgers.edu, directory pub/ufo, file
bibliography.Z (compressed format).  The file is organized by author, and
also again by date-of-publication, and also includes Keith Rowell's
excellent bibliography file (which is also worked into the above two
parts).  Many titles have comments from various people as to the value of
the book; I would like any comments on any of the books from anyone, and
also additional books for inclusion. Check out the UFO Bibliography that
you can ftp at:
  paul.rutgers.edu
  The file is pub/UFO/bibliography.Z It has books by author, a second
  listing by date, and also the names of prominent authors in the field.

For more information contact: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)


10.02: Big Foot (Sasquatch)
---------------------------
   Our research group is currently investigating reports and sightings of
the animal known as "Bigfoot" or "Sasquatch". If you or somebody you know
has had such a sighting, or come across what may be evidence supporting
the existence of such an animal, please get in contact with us in one of
the following formats:

o Leave a private message in electronic mail:
  [e-mail] (Thomas Hill)
o Call Thomas Hill at 216-362-6529.
o Or write:

  Thomas E. Hill
  16124 Richard Dr.
  Brook Park, OH 44142

 Contact with us can be totally anonymous if you wish. We are especially
interested in Ohio sightings but are by no means limited to
investigations in that state. Please, serious responses only.


10.03: Free UFO Class
---------------------
Penn State University has Free U classes that are offered to the public
at no charge!  They supply a classroom to those who wish to teach a
subject and the public may attend them for free. One of the classes
offered is a UFO class Organized and taught by Janet Smith, and Beth
Combs.

In the class they discuss every aspect of the UFO phenomenon such as the
Billie Meier investigation, government cover-ups, Zecharia Sitchin who
wrote the Earth Chronicles series, Mars probe, Mars Face and many other
topics. The class also offers guest speakers who have done UFO research
plus videos, movies and articles about various UFO phenomenon.

The classes are held every Monday in room 207 of Sackett Building at Penn
State University in State College, PA. The starting time is 7:00 pm, EDT
(soon to be EST) and they ends sometime after 9:00 pm. The class will be
held until December 7th. The class may continue after the holidays into
next semester, but that depends on our level of interest.

If someone has questions or would like to contribute to the group in some
way, (ie. guest speakers, movies, different types of information, etc.)
contact Janet Smith at [e-mail] or write to her at: 123
Ramblewood Road, Pennsylvania Furnace, PA 16865.  Home phone: (814)
237-6763, Work phone: [phone].

10.04: Freedom of Information
-----------------------------
In the US, you write to the agency you want to reach, addressed to
the "Freedom of Information Officer".  A list of agencies is available
from the US Government Printing Office. Their order number is:
202-783-3238

The "US Government Manual" (1991/92), price $23 (they take MC/Visa
orders over the phone).  They will also send you a catalog of all
manuals/documents available from the USGPO for free. Order at the same
number.  [I have more information on this, I will add it later.]

Main Source: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)

10.05: Hidden Ancient Ruins
---------------------------
The address is Mystic Mountain Adventures
Dept. 100 11142 Manhattan Avnue, Ste. 43
Manhattan Beach, CA 90266   Ph# [phone].

10.06: Inter Library Loans (ILL)
--------------------------------
If you would like to research an the various UFO topics mentioned in this
FAQ and you don't have a large bank account, go to your local library and
ask about the Inter Library Loan System. The ILL lets you check out books,
audio tapes, video tape, and get copies of magazine articles that your local
library might not have. In many cases there is no charge for using ILL, this
depend upon you local library. Almost all the book I have used to research
this FAQ were ordered through ILL. Check it out. :-)


10.07: NASA Shuttle Footage
---------------------------
NASA Select on Satcom 2, Transponder 13, carries the whole mission, live
and anybody with a satellite dish can tune in.  You can find the original
uplink and shuttle audio on Transponder 5. This is the raw video with
shuttle to ground audio communications on it.


10.08: UFO Related anonymous FTP Sites
---------------------------------------
[Also See: 10.00: A Complete UFO Book List]


phoenix UFO Pics
----------------
phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17)
In /pub/ufo_and_space_pics

NASA Pics Sites
----------------
NOTE: the material at these sites is exceedingly voluminous;
I'd strongly suggest just getting the CD-ROMs instead of attempting
to transfer scores of gigabytes of pix and other material.

To access the online catalog of NASA material, CD-ROMS, et cetera:

    telnet nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov
    login as "NODIS"
    no password

Anonymous ftp sites (five):

nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.10.4]

    This is a VAX/VMS box, so you must ftp-login as "anonymous".  To get
    a dir listing into a file on your system:

    ftp> dir [...] file_on_your_system

vab02.larc.nasa.gov

    lots of stuff, including Aliens of all colors, and UFO pix (though
this
    seems to mirror a lot of what's at phoenix.oulu.fi and has some
    additional material).

ames.arc.nasa.gov

    online copies of what appears to be all NASA's CD-ROMs, and lots of
    GIFs, *.img and *.jpg from most (all?) space missions since Apollo.

iris1.ucis.dal.ca

    dunno; it appears to be down today (Saturday, 18-July-1992).

ummts.cc.umich.edu
      |
 {changed to}
      |
      V
archive.umich.edu

    apparently popular (and, hence, slow).  Is supposed to have many
    NASA and Voyager data files.

Main Source: [e-mail] (Thad Floryan)


=== UFO Organizations
------------------

11.00: Aerial Phenomenon Research: The Indiana Group
----------------------------------------------------
18 Davis Drive Mt. Vernon, Indiana 47620
Francis L. Ridge (Director)
812-838-3120 / 812-838-9843
Publishers of : Indiana UFO Newsletter
Founded in 1986
A statewide organization which attempts to immediately respond to UFO
sightings

11.01: The Aetherius Society
----------------------------
6202 Afton Place Hollywood,
California 90028-8298
Detroit Branch
17670 West 12 Mile Road
Southfield, Michigan 48076
313-552-9153 / 313-552-9159
Reverend Lesley Young
(General Committeee) : 213~65-9652/ 213~67-HEAL (4325)
Publishers of : The Aetherius Society Journal : Cosmic Voice
Founded in 1960
The Hollywood, California office is the American headquarters for The
Society which was founded in England in 1955. In the US, the Society was
incorporated in 1960 as a non-profit religious, scientific, and educational
organization.
The Society is a metaphysical, channeling organization whose
founder/president, Sir George King, is a Western Master of Yoga and who has
been in contact with Extraterrestrial Intelligences for over 35 years. He
acts as a channel for the dissemination of Higher Wisdom from These
Sources.
The Society's objective is to explain the presence of UFOs around the Earth
and to make known knowledge given to their president by Advanced Beings who
reside in this Solar System. This information is disseminated through
books, pamphlets, cassettes and albums and two newsletters, "The Aetherius
Society Journal" and "Cosmic Voice".
Also, study courses in: "Metaphysical and Occult Sciences" and "Cosmic
Revelations" to further spread the word and to explain the cosmic
significance of messages received from the Advanced Beings. Regular
meetings at the U.S. and England headquarters as well as by associated
branches throughout the world.
Prayer Circles are organized during a Spiritual Push (or Magnetization
Period) at different holy mountain sites, when the giant Interplanetary
Spacecraft is brought into Earth's orbit by a Cosmic Master. Helpers who
attend these Power Circles send out the Spiritual energies from this Cosmic
Master to help mankind.

11.02: Ancient Astronaut Society
--------------------------------
1921 St. Johns Avenue
Highland Park, Illinois 60035-3105
Gene M. Phillips (Founder) :708-295-8899
Publication is Ancient Skies
Founded in 1973. non-profit, tac-exempt organization operated for
scientific, literary and educational purposes. The primary objectives of
the Society are to search for evidence of whether Earth was visited in the
remote past by intelligent beings from outer space and to determine whether
a highly developed, technological civilization existed on Earth before our
recorded history.
The Society also provides complete study courses in: "Metaphysical and
Occult Sciences" and "Cosmic Revelations" to explain the cosmic
significance of messages received from Advanced Beings.

11.03: Ancient Truth Research Foundation
----------------------------------------
6146 Eleanor Avenue #205 Los Angeles, California 90~036
Albert Rainey
213'464-5948
Publication is Cosmic Current News
Interested in many New Age topics, including UFOs.

11.04: The Awareness Reserch Foundation, Inc.
---------------------------------------------
DeSoto Square
No. 29, 35 Ritter Road
Hayesville, North Carolina 28904
Helen I. Hoag (Executive Director)
704-389-8672
New Age organization with many interests, including UFOs; investigates
various metaphysical activities and issues findings through publication of
various books.

11.05: Borderland Sciences Research Foundation (BSRF)
-----------------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 429
Garberville, California 9544429
Contact : Tom Brown
Telephone Number : 707-986-7211
Publication is : Journal of Borderland Research
Founded in: 1945
Functions as clearinghouse, specializing in rare and unusual information.
BSRF is an alternative  scientific movement which deals with a variety of
borderland subjects, including UFOs; a
non-profit organization; its members are people who take an active interest
in observing the physical, mental, and spiritual environment. In addition
BSRF studies: Light & Color affects on people, Radionics, Dowsing, Free
Energy, Orgone Energy, Hollow
Earth Mysteries, Anomalies, Fortean Phenomena, Hypnosis, Photography of the
Invisible, etc. and offers a catalog of available books, reports, and
tapes.

11.06: BRITISH UFO RESEARCH ASSOCIATION (BUFORA)
------------------------------------------------
Commonly called BUFORA. It was formed in 1962 as a federation
of eight regional UK UFO groups. These included the London
UFO Research Organisation (LUFORO, founded in 1959) the largest
UK group at the time and the British Flying Saucer Bureau (BFSB,
founded in 1952) which was the oldest UK group.

BUFORA publishes six issues per year of the A4 magazine UFO TIMES.
Current annual membership subscription is 18 pounds sterling.
Approx membership 500. Current senior officers include Stephen
Gamble (Chairman) and John Spencer (Vice-chairman).

Contact address : The Leys, 2c Leyton Road, Harpenden, Hertfordshire,
AL5 2TL, Great Britain. Phone [phone].

11.07: California UFO
---------------------
1800 South Robertson Blvd
Box 355
Los Angeles, California 90035
Vicki Cooper (Editor); Don Ecker (Researcher)
Telephone Numbers : 213-273-9409 /818-951-1250
Publication : UFO
Publishes the bi-monthly UFO" magazine. Additionally, this organization
sponsors annual conferences which concentrate on a variety of UFO-related
subjects.

11.08: Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS)
------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 218                            c/o Mr. Lawrence Fawcett
Coventry, Cormecticut 06238     [or]    471 Goose Lane
Peter Gersten (Director)                Coventry, Connecticut 06238
Lawrence Fawcett (Asst Director & Publisher)
Barry Greenwood (Research Director & Editor)
        P.O.Box 176, Stoneham, MASS, 02180, USA
Publication is : Just Cause
Founded in : 1978

A non-profit organization to uncover all existing documentation relating to
governrnent involvement in UFO investigations and research. To accomplish
this, CAUS files numerous Freedom of Inforrnation Act (FOIA) lawsuits in an
attempt to get the governrnent to release relevant documents.Their "Just
Cause" quarterly newsletter carries events and provides updated UFO news
from around the world. They published a book too -- "Clear Intent"

11.09: Committee for the Scientific Investigation of
       Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP)
----------------------------------------------------
Refer to: The Skeptical Inquirer
P.O. Box 229
Buffalo, New York 14215{)229
Paul Kurtz (Chairman - Skeptical Inquirer)
Philip J. Klass (UFO Subcommittee)
Lynda Harwood (Public Relations)
716-834-3222
716-834-0841
 "The Skeptical Inquirer" is a non-profit, tax-exempt organization.
CSICOP is headed by Paul Kurtz and investigates claims of the
Paranorrnal, including UFOs and UFO-related activity.The committee's
investigations, findings, commentaries, etc. are published in "The
Skeptical Inquirern.

11.10: COMPUTER UFO NETWORK (CUFON)
-----------------------------------
Bulletin Board system run by UFO Reporting and Information Service. Date of
formation not known. Information director : Dale Goudie, SYSOP: Jim Klotz
Based Seattle, Washington, USA. Board number [phone], parameters
300/1200/2400 bps 8 bit no parity 1 stop bit.

11.11: Contactee
----------------
P.O. Box 12
New Milford, New Jersey 07646
Ellen Crystall (Director)
Studies UFOs by direct observation; quarterly newsletter, "Contactee"
details activities.Tne primary goal of Contactee is to educate about
world-wide contacts being made with UFOs and to disseminate information to
all interested parties.
Contactee also sells books and sponsors various conferences.
Regular Member (those who claim to have had alien contact) and
Auxiliary Member (those who do not claim UFO contact)
membership fee is $20.00 per year and includes the newsletter.
Contactee accepts articles for its newsletter.

11.12: Cosmic Awareness Communications
--------------------------------------
P.O. Box 115
Olympia, Washington 98507
Vikki T. (Correspondence Secretary)
Pulication is : Reveltions of Awareness
A tax-exempt organization.
Studies New Age subjects, including UFOs. This group is centered around the
"channelings" of a "Force" which refers to itself as "Cosmic Awareness". CA
believes that this "Force" has expressed itself through selected people in
history including Jesus, the Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, and Edgar Cayce,
among others.
Publication, "Revelations of Awareness, has published over 300 editions and
details various New Age subjects. Subscribers receive a catalog listing all
available back issues and subjects covered. Membership is $30.00 per year.
Will accept memberships for three month periods ($3.00 per month), prepaid.
Individual/Family $ 3.00/ month or $30.00/ year New Age-related (including
UFOs) books and tapes available.

11.13: CSETI
------------
Dr. Steven Greer 704-274-5671
Asheville,N.C.

11.14: Delval UFO, Inc.
-----------------------
948 Almshouse Road
Ivyland, Pennsylvania 18974
Anthony Volpe (President)
215-357-2909
Publication is the Awakening; the group was founded in 1973.
A channeling, contactee UFO organization, founded in 1973.their publication
"Awakening", is offered nine 9 times a year; they sell UFO-related books
and tapes.

11.15: The Fair Witness Project, Inc.
-------------------------------------
Parent Organization: William L. Moore Publications & Research
4219 West Olive Avenue Suite #247
Burbank, California 91505
213-463-0542
Publication is : Focus
A non-profit corporation whose income is used to fund the research efforts
of qualified persons selected by the Directors of the Fair Witness Project.
They accept donations and will send an acknowledgement of that donation for
tax purposes.

11.16: The Federation
---------------------
The Federation is a group of people who feel it is high time we got
off this rock and started exploring the great unknown of space.  The
Federation has drawn out in blue print form a drive system that is a a super
semi conducting crystaline structure. To get more information on the
Federation send a 3.5 floppy and they will place an info packet on it and
send
it back to you. You must have a mac that has 5.0 microsoftword or better.Send
to this adrress:

The Federation
C/O Lady Rhavyn
Po box 231772
Anchorage, Alaska
          99523-1772

If you have any questions feel free to send to this account.
[e-mail]


11.17: Flying Saucer Information Center
---------------------------------------
7803 Ruanne Court
Pasadena, Maryland 21122
James H. Wales : Update
Founded in 1954
Acts as a clearing house for the distribution of UFO information to the
general public. Laura Mundo began this organization in 1954.
Group feels the Earth is in danger due to upcoming radical changes in the
atmosphere (sunspot activity) and Space Beings are here to help. They will
be able to either solve the problem or take selected Earth people to safe
locations (inside their insulated spaceships) until the atmospheric
activity calms down. When humans return to Earth after surviving the
atmospheric instability, they will begin the Universal Way of Life, which
is a standard way of life on other planets. Also believe Space People
living on Earth today are to here to monitor us and help.

11.18: FORTEAN RESEARCH CENTER (FRC)
------------------------------------
This was founded in 1982 by Ray Boeche and deals with all aspects of Fortean
Phenomena. The current Director is Scott Colbourn. The contact address for
the Center is P.O.Box 94627, Lincoln, Nebraska, 68509, USA. The Center runs
a Bulletin Board on [phone].

11.19: FUND FOR UFO RESEARCH (FUFOR)
------------------------------------
Formed in 1979, commonly called FUFOR. Not a membership organisation, but
awards grants towards research activities. Funds raised primarily by
donation.
Chairman Bruce Macabee. Contact address : P.O. Box 277, Mount Rainer,
Maryland,
20712, USA.

                            Bitnet: Fsdlk@alaska
( FAQ Part 2 of 3)        Internet: [e-mail]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~  ...........  .......          .           .       .            ~
~  .            .      .        Nasha tai no kasei!         .   . ~
~  ...          .......           .            .                  ~
~  .            .               Prosperity and Long Life, To You. ~
~  .... xisting . hantom              .             .             ~
~                             .                            .      ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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From: [e-mail] (A figment of your imagination)
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              alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions
                   This FAQ was last updated: 10/26/92
       It currently takes up 130k (around 67 printed pages) in all
                       Line width is about 75 char.
                             (Part 3 of 3)


11.20: The Fund for UFO Research, Inc.
--------------------------------------
P.O. Box 277
Mt. Rainier, Maryland 20712
Bruce Maccabee, PhD (Chairman)
Publication is: Quarterly Report
Founded in 1979
2000 Members
A non-profit, tax-exempt organization based in Washington, D.. whose
mission is to provide grants for scientific research and public education
projects dealing with the UFO phenomenon. Since 1979 has raised more than
$150,000.00 from more than 2000 contributors. Also sponsors and awards the
annual Donald E. Keyhoe Journalism Award."
The Fund sponsors such projects the release of U.S.
Government documents concerning UFOs under the Freedom of Informatioon
Act,computer-aided analysis of UFO photographs, research into major UFO
sightings around the world,
research into "Operation Majestic 12", psychological testing of people who
reported being abducted by apparent aliens, international symposiums and
conducts interviews and lectures.
The Fund takes the position that many reported UFOs cannot be identified as
conventional aerial vehicles or phenomena. Thus, UFO reports are
potentially of enormous significance and merit serious scientific research.

11.21: Gulf Breeze Skywatch
---------------------------
904-433-2737 (Bruce and Ann Morrison)

11.22: Inner-Peace Prosperity Network (IPPN)
--------------------------------------------
12628 Black Saddle Lane
Germntown, Maryland 20874-5001
Patrick O'Connell
301-972-1980
IPPN believes that extraterrestrials have already landed and established
underground bases, mainly in the western and southwestern United States.
"Trends & Predictions Analystn, is a compilation of UFO-related theories,
news, and current events; newsletter (printed twice a year) also details
available books, papers, and tapes for sale by IPPN.
Membership rates:
$ 4.00/ year (U.S. & Canada) $ 5 .00/ year (Foreign) $12.vO /3 years (IJ.S.
& Canada) $15.00 / 3 years (Foreign)
Membership includes the newsletter. IPPN also sells Name Lists of people
who subscribe to New Age periodicals. IPPN gears the selling of these lists
to those interested in selling New Age- related products. As of September
1990, the charge for these lists are:
1000 Narnes $20.00 2000 Names $40.00 3000 Narnes $60.00
IPPN also sells back-issues of "The New Atlantean Journaln, a defunct
periodical dealing with New Age-related subjects, including UFOs.

11.23: Intercontinental UF Galactic Spacecraft-Research and
       Analytic Network (ICUFON)
------------------------------------------------------------
 35-40 75th Street Suite 4G
Jackson Heights, New York 11372
Colman S. VonKeviczky (Director)
718-72-7948
A non-profit organization whose goal is to persuade the United Nations (and
the world's governments) to establish an official World Authority for UFO
Affairs (the WASA Project), to seek and establish contact with
extraterrestrial galactic powers; maintains that the world's governments
have known about UFOUs for several decades and that they are conducting
covert warfare in an attempt to try to stop any invasion from outer space.
ICUFON wants to open full dialogue with any and all extraterrestrial
forces.
ICUFON maintains an Archives Department which contains UFO cases,
photographs, movie films, declassified military and governmental
documentation from all over the world.

11.24: INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE FOR UFO RESEARCH (ICUFOR)
---------------------------------------------------------
Formed in 1979 as a UFOlogical 'United Nations'. The membership consists
of representative organisations for various countries. Commonly called
ICUR. Members include BUFORA (UK); Center for UFO Studies (USA); CISU
(Italy); MUFON (USA); SUFOI (Denmark); Project UNICAT (USA) Project URD
(Sweden); VUFORS (Australia).

ICUR's objectives are to promote data exchange between groups and to
help establish common standards and terminology.

Officers are Chairman: Robert Digby (BUFORA, UK); Vice-Chairman: Walter
Andrus (MUFON, USA); Secretary : Stephen Gamble (BUFORA, UK) and
Treasurer : John Spencer (BUFORA, UK). Contact address is : P.O. Box 314,
Penn, High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, HP10 8DH, Great Britain.

11.25: Internationa1 Fortean Organization (INFO)
------------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 367
Arlington, VA 22210-0367
Raymond Manners (President & Journal Editor)
Publication is INFO Journal
Founded in 1965 by Ronald Willis
A non-profit corporation established for the educational and scientific
study of Fortean phenomena. INFO investigates the strange and unreasonable
events that happen in this world, including UFOs, lost civilizations,
physical anomalies, Atlantis, Bigfoot, vanished civilizations, etc.
Today, INFO continues the work of Charles Fort to collect, record, and
publish reports of strange occurrences. Their findings are published in the
INFO Journal. INFO holds an annual convention, called FortFest, in the
Washington D.C. area.
Annual membership fee includes the "INFO Journal" is $12.00 in the U.S. and
$16.00 for foreign countries. INFO maintains files on all of its
investigations, cases, etc. Slides, books, and tapes are for sale and back
issues of "INFO Journal" are also available. The INFO Research Service
performs funded research for the media while the INFO Research Library is
open to scholars.

11.26: INTRUDERS FOUNDATION
----------------------------
Organisation formed by abduction researcher Budd Hopkins to provide support
and a forum for abductees to discuss their experiences. Contact address :
PO Box 30233, New York, New York, 10011, USA.  Phone and fax: [phone]

11.27: Island Skywatch
----------------------
164-22 77th Road Flushing,
New York 11366 : Bill Knell (Director)
718-591-1854 (24-Hour Hotline) . The New York UFO Report : Island
Publication is Skywatch Journal
1989 by Bill Knell
A tax-exempt organization whose goal is the scientific and objective study
of the UFO phenomenon. Membership ($25.00 per year) includes one year
subscription to the "New York UFO Report" and the Island Skywatch Journal,
one copy of "Hidden Truth: The UFO Story" (a two-hour video history about
UFOs written by Bill Knell), the opportunity to attend free local meetings,
free training as a UFO investigator, and the opportunity to investigate
Island Skywatch cases.They offer a wide variety of books, audiotapes, video
tapes, for sale. Bill Knell has cable TV UFO show "UFOs Over Long Island"
on the Brookhaven Cable TV system every Thursday at 6:30 p.m. (channel
35).UFO Abductee Support Group offered as well.

11.28: J. ALLEN HYNEK CENTER FOR UFO STUDIES (CUFOS)
-----------------------------------------------------
2457 West Peterson Avenue
Chicago, Illinois 60659
Contacts
Mark Rodeghier (President)
George Eberhart (Librarian & Archivist)
312-271-3611
Publications are : The Journal of UFO Studies and International UFO
Reporter (IUR)
Founded in 1973 by Dr. J. Allen Hynek

A non-profit organization whose goal is to promote serious research into
the UFO phenomena through the expertise of an international group of
scientists, academians, and volunteers. This organization has a worldwide
network of field investigators that interview witnesses, examine physical
evidence and gather any other relevant information. The major purpose of
CUFOS is to act as a clearinghouse - aplace where UFO experiences can be
reported and researched. Dr. J. Allen Hynek, who was con- sidered one of
the world's pre- eminent authorities on the UFO phenomenon, first became
involved with UFOs as Scientific Consultant to the U.S. Air Force from 1948
to 1968, and was Scientific Director of CUFOS until his death in 1986. He
coined the phrase "close encounters of the third kind" and acted as
technical advisor to director Steven Spielberg on the movie of the same
name.
CUFOS maintains the world's largest repository of data about UFO phenomena,
second only to the US Government! This
material includes more than 50,000 cases of UFO sightings and a library of
more than 5,000 books and magazines, which cover all aspects of the UFO
phenomena. CUFOS promotes various activities, projects, publications,
symposiums, conferences, seminars and field trips to various UFO-related
locations and sells journals, books, audiocassette tapes, and other
publications.
The "International UFO Reporter (IUR)", published bi-monthly, reports on
current sightings, news and articles on current UFO topics. CUFOS also
publishes the annual "Journal of UFO Studies" which presents a collection
of scholarly papers on the UFO
phenomenon. A $25.00 contribution entitles a member to become an ASSOCIATE
of CUFOS and to receive the "International UFO Reporter" for one year.
The Center publishes the International UFO Reporter

11.29: The Massachusetts Center for the study of Aerial Phenomena
------------------------------------------------------------------
43 Harrison Street Reading,
Massachusetts 01867 Contact
Jim Melesciuc
617-944 0686
A loose-knit organization comprised of researchers who wish to remain
unaffiliated with any specific UFO group and concentrate  efforts in
individual fields of interest; many members do belong to other UFO groups,
such as CAUS, MUFON, CUFOS, etc.

11.30: Multi-national Investigations Cooperative on Aerial Phenomena (MICAP)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based in Denver, Colorado. Director is Micheal Corbin.
They can be reached at [phone].
P.O. Box 172, Wheat Ridge, CO  80034-0928
MICAP is an international membership group dedicated to the scientific
exploration of the UFO phenomenon. Membership is $30.00 per year and includes
a subscription to CONTINUUM.

For application, call 303-431-8797, or write to MICAP at Box 172, Wheat
Ridge,
CO  80034-0172.

11.31: Mutual UFO Network, Inc. (MUFON)
----------------------------------------
103 Oldtowne Road Seguin, Texas 78155099
Contact Telephone Number Publications
Founded Number of Members
Walter H, Andrus, Jr.
512-379-9216

Founded in May 31, 1969 with a membership of 2500 Originally based in
Illinois it was called the Mid-west UFO Network, changing its name around
1972 to Mutual to represent its growing role as a national and international
group.

MUFON has local groups in each State within the USA and has representatives
in many countries outside the USA. Current membership number is around
4000. MUFON publishes 12 issues per year of the A4 MUFON UFO Journal : MUFON
Field Investigator's Manual. The annual membership fee is 25 US Dollars or
30 Dollars for overseas members. MUFON runs a bulletin board service,
contact the office for details.

MUFON is non-profit, international, scientific organization devoted to
studying and researching the UFO phenomenon. MUFON sponsors and conducts
worldwide conferences, seminars and symposiums. MUFON members believe that a
concentrated scientific study by dedicated investigators and researchers
will provide the ultimate answer to the UFO enigma. State Director oversees
the activities of Field Investigators through State Section Directors. An
International Co-ordinator and seven Continental Co-ordinators work with
Foreign Representatives in each country to investigate UFO activity.
MUFON is the "parent organization" for numerous, smaller UFO research
groups across the United States and around the world.
Since 1970 has sponsored an Annual International UFO Symposium where
scientists, engineers, university professors, and authors lecture on their
particular specialization to solving the UFO enigma. The copyrighted
symposium proceedings are published annually for worldwide distribution.
Back issues of symposium proceedings are available.
Anyone interested is invited to join MUFON by submitting a membership
application and dues for approval.

Other MUFON Branches:
New Zealand Director for MUFON,
  [e-mail] (Murray Bott)
  PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand  Phone: [phone]

11.32: Mutual UFO Network of North Carolina, Inc. (MUFON-NC)
------------------------------------------------------------
602 Battleground Road
Lincolnton, North Carolina 28092
George D. Fawcett (Staee Director)
704-735-5725
Founded  in February 1, 1990; non-profit corporation whose goal is to
investigate and research the UFO enigma. MUFON-NC accepts reports of
sightings, visitations, etc. and will investigate those cases with the most
merit.
MUFON-NC holds quarterly meetings in North Carolina on the first Sunday of
February, May, August and November on a rotating basis in different cities;
meetings generally run from lpm until 6pm.
To join: $10 self-addressed, stamped envelope with 45 cents postage to the
above address; you get forms for both MUFON and MUFON- NC.

Granville Angell (Treasurer)               Robert H. Hair
Route 2, Box 252D Vale,                    314 Wilson Street
North Carolina 28168                       Eden, North Carolina 27288
704-462-2303                               919-627-4184


11.33: National Investigations Committeee on UFOs (NICUFO)
---------------------------------------------------------
14617 Victory Blvd Suite 4
P.O. Box 5
Van Nuys, California 91411
Dr. Frank E. Stranges, PhD. (President)
818-989-5942
Publishes the UFO Journal : Inter-Space-Link-Confidential NL
Founded in July 1967
A non-profit organization whose aim is to conduct research into, and
provide education about, the fields of UFOs, Space, and Science phenomena.
Members are available to provide lectures throughout the world. Monthly
meetings, as well as two UFO seminars per year, are held at NICUFO
headquarters in Van Nuys, California.
One of the world's largest collections of UFO slides, books and tapes. For
more information materials write: I.E.C. Book Department, P.O. Box 73, VVan
Nuys, California 91408.
Anyone interested in becoming a State Director should contact NICUFO.
Annual membership fees are $25.00 ($30.00 foreign) and includes a
subscription to the UFO Journal magazine, which is a quarterly publication.
Also available is the Inter-Space-Link- Confidential-Newsletter for $60.00
per year.
Based upon their experience, members may serve in one of the following
positions: Consultant, State or Provincial Director, State Section
Director, Foreign Representative, Field Investigator, Research Specialist,
Amateur Radio Operator, Astronomer, Field Investigator Trainee, Translator,
UFO News Clipping Service, Contributing Subscriber or Associate Member
(under 18 years of age).
MUFON trains its Field Investigators and provides them with the "MUFON
Field Investigator's Manual".
Amateur Radio Networks are used to receive and disseminate UFO sighting
reports and current UFO information. The time and frequencies of these
broadcasts are published in the "MUFON UFO Journal."

11.34: The National Sighting Research Center (NSRC)
---------------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 76
Emerson, New Jersey 07630
Bob Sylvester (Co Director)
Publishes the National Sighting Yearbook since 1988.
A non-profit organization composed of 6 part-time research specialists with
expertise in microcomputer-based data base management systems (DBMS),
statistical analysis, micro telecommunications, and trend analysis. The
NSRC acts as an information- gathering organization which compiles massive
amounts of data and disseminates it in the form of computerized reports,
including information in statistical and graphical form.
The goals of NSRC are to provide the professional UFO investigator or
researcher with a computerized, highly graphical database summary of all
reported sightings of anomalous aerial phenomena within the United States
and a clearinghouse for UFO sighting report data; periodically release
other publications, in-depth reports requested by other researchers and
organizations.

11.35: Nevada Aerial Research Group (NARG)
------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 81407
Las Vegas, Nevada 8918G-1407
Val Valerian
Publishes the Leading Edge : NARG AMual Journal
A worldwide, New Age organization with researchers and investigators 12
countries and 37 states. The primary goals of NARG are to provide
information on developments in our civilization which affect all of this
planet, to investigate all processes that impede evolution, and promote an
increase in the awareness level of the mass human consciousness.
The NARG investigates, radionics, psycotronics, mind control, alien
interaction, gravitational and crystalline technologies, overt and covert
intelligence operations, systems above and below the surface of the planet,
conspiracies, advances in physics, planetary power structures, foreign
technology, brain machines, implant technology, human abductions and animal
mutilations.
Leading Edge is only available from Arcturus Book Service,
PO Box 831383, Stone Mountain, Georgia 30083-0023, 404-297-4624. Published
6 times a year.This is the source of the MATRIX materials.

11.36: North American Circle
-----------------------------
PO Box 61144, Durham, NC 27715-1144

11.37: North American Institute for Crop Circle Research (NAICCR)
------------------------------------------------------------------
NAICCR was formed in 1990 after requests for information about North
American crop circles had reached epidemic proportions.  UFOROM
associates, who had been regularly investigating reports and
discoveries of UGMs (Unusual Ground Markings), including traces very
similar to crop circles, responded to inquiries by formalising a sister
group devoted to research into UGMs.

NAICCR associates investigate UGMs rationally, and prepare reports on
their findings.  NAICCR distributes a list of known North American
UGMs, based on information provided to NAICCR by co-operative
researchers throughout the continent.  A comparable list of British UGMs
has never been available in this manner.  NAICCR also publishes an
annual report of North American UGM activity, with analyses and
commentary.

NAICCR will continue to function in the future at about the present
level of activity, though it would be preferred if UGM cases would
once again be studied as special cases of UFO cases, as was the case
before tthat category of UGMs was raised to a separate category because
of British research.  NAICCR may perhaps merge back with UFOROM, if this
is the case, since UFOROM had been investigating UGMs as a matter of
course.

NAICCR                              NAICCR
Box 1918                [or]        649 Silverstone Avenue
Winnipeg, Manitoba                  Winnipeg, Manitoba
Canada   R3C 3R2                    R3T 2V8, Canada.

11.38: Northamptonshire UFO Research Centre (NUFORC)
----------------------------------------------------
This is a local group covering the county of Northamptonshire within England.
Common name is NUFORC. Formed in 1986. Number of members about 20. Chief
officers are Stephen Gamble (Chairman); Susan Pollock (Secretary) and Elsie
Oakensen (Treasurer). Contact address : 30 Stonebridge Court, Lings,
Northampton, Northamptonshire, England.

11.39: NORTHERN UFO NETWORK (NUFON)
-----------------------------------
Formed in 1973, the Northern UFO Network or NUFON was a loose federation of
local UFO groups throughout northern England. At the peak about 20 groups
were members. A small newsletter called Northern UFO News was published by
the group. Although the federation of groups no longer exists, Northern UFO
News is still published by Jenny Randles.

11.40: Omega Communications
----------------------------
P.O. Box 2051 Cheshire, Connecticut 06410
John W. White, M.A.T. (President)
Sponsors public  events (seminars, lectures, symposiums, etc) to promote
discussion about the UFO experience. Since 1987, Omega Communications has
produced an annual symposium, "The UFO Experience" where numerous
researchers and contactees are invited to talk. These proceedings are
published in audio and video format available for sale. Audio and
videotapes of previous conferences are available. Audio tapes are $9.00
each while videotapes are $29.95 each . Each tape is approximately 90
minutes in length. Video tapes are available only in VHS format.

11.41: ParaNet (Paranormal Network) Information Service
-------------------------------------------------------
ParaNet Information Service
P.O. Box 172
Wheat Ridge, CO  80034-0172

Voice Phone - 303-431-8796
Data BBS Phone - 303-431-8797
Publication is The Continuum    :
Founded in 1986

History
ParaNet started on January 1, 1986 in a bulletin-board system called
"The Other Side" It was one of the first BBS that gathered together
various information for the pourpous of research on the paranormal.
Jim Speiser was the Director of ParaNet 1986-88 at the time and
wanted to bring together the three factions of paranormal debate
(the skeptics, the believers, and the undecided) for public
discussion of paranormal. He created ParaNet as neutral ground for
the exchange of information on the paranormal.In 1988 Speiser turned
over the directorship to Michael Corbin.

Current Status
ParaNet's basic goles are reflected in its motto:  "Answering Questions,
Questioning Answers". ParaNet offers investigator's raw material, in the
form of sighting reports, which comes from data supplied by the public.
The network concept provides the investigators and its users with immediate,
one-on-one contact, and instant access to a global communications medium.
ParNet also keeps it users informed major, fast-breaking stories involving
the paranormal. ParaNet can be accessed in six countries on three
continents.

The People of ParaNet
ParaNet provides access to experts through their electronic system. Its
research  branch is headed by Robert B. Klinn, a veteran investigator who
worked for the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek. ParaNet also provides a conference
on the UFO abduction experience hosted by Dr. David Jacobs, a UFO historian
and author. Many different groups and researchers of the paranormal use
Parenet for information exchange and discussion of ideas. Among some of them
are the Bay Area Skeptics, the South Shore Skeptics, Marge Christenson,
T. Scott Crain, Dan Drasin, Stan Gordon, Barry Greenwood, Budd Hopkins,
Linda Howe, Phil Imbrogno, Dr. David Jacobs, Dr. Donald Johnson, Philip
Klass,
Bruce Maccabee, Maj. James McGaha, Dr. Mark Rodeghier, Robert Schaeffer,
Tracy Torme, and Dr. David Webb, Don Ecker, Vicki Cooper and and many others.

The Future of ParaNet
In the future ParaNet plans to expan their network to even more cournties,
increasing public education and scientific-oriented  research and
investigation unequaled in  the field. Their focus will be directed at
bringing various credible existing organizations from around the world into
a better orgonized research effort. ParaNet will also turn its attention to
more investigative  reporting. Paranet plans to acomplish this unser their
new organization known as  MICAP  (Multi-national Investigations Cooperative
on  Aerial Phenomena). (see MICAP) MICAP will be a separate non-profit
research/educational vehicle with investigative ability.


Publications:
CONTINUUM is a publication put out quarterly by ParaNet It costs $18.00
per year.It is a very informative and diverse publication.

Internet Mailings:
To get the current postings from ParaNet send a mail message to:
[e-mail]
with the word "Subscribe" in the subject line.

Information about ParaNet and MICAP can be obtained by phoning 303-431-8796,
or by writing to them at P.O. Box 172, Wheat Ridge, CO  80034-0172.

To access ParaNet via computer and modem, call 303-431-8797 and you will be
guided through the registration process and be given choices of which level
of membership you wish to acquire.

ParaNet's files are available on floppy disks or hard copy. Their catalog
is available for  $10.00 and contains a full listing of all available
files, books, and videos. Contact Michael Corbin at:
ParaNet Information Service
P.O. Box 172
Wheat Ridge, CO  80034-0172

11.42: Pennsylvania Association for the Study of the Unexplained (PASU)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
6 Oakhill Avenue
Greensburg, Pennsylvania 15601
Stan Gordon (Director)
412-838-7768
PASU Data Exchange
Founded in 1981
A volunteer, non-profit scientific research unit conducts investigations of
strange or unusual occurrences, with emphasis on UFOs and UFO-related
activity. PASU members donate their time and equipment. PASU is a statewide
clearinghouse for reports of UFO sightings and is comprised of individuals
with training or experience in the fields of science, engineering,
technology or medicine who act as field investigators. Monthly meetings are
held to share information. PASU has on file thousands of cases from
Pennsylvania that include UFO sightings, creature reports, unusual animal
killings, unexplained photographs and other anomalies. PASU attempts to
send field investigators directly to the scene of an occurrence to gather
information and interview witnesses. The "PASU Data Exchange" newsletter
contains information regarding investigations conducted into unusual
incidents that have occurred in Penn.

11.43: PNET
------------
Based in Melbourne, Australia. Bulletin board system, echos some Paranet
material. Sysop : Brian Evans, contact Brian by Internet mail for
information:
[e-mail]

11.44: The Portland UFO Group (PUFOG)
-------------------------------------
P.O. Box 998 Wilsonville, OR 97070
Jennifer Brown - Jacobs (Director)
503-538-0836
PUFOG Newsletter Founded in 1989
500 Members
A non-profit UFO organization whose monthly seminars are open to the
general public; maintain no membership and are unaffiliated with any other
UFO organization. PUFOG is an information group that conducts seminars on
the 3rd Sunday of each month at Mt. Hood Community College, Gresham, OR.
These seminars present knowledgeable  speakers on UFOs and related
subjects. Those who attend their seminars pay an admission fee and receive
the PUFOG newsletter.

11.45: Roundtown UFO Society
-----------------------------
Roundtown UFO Society, PO Box 52, Circleville, Ohio 43113 Multi-national

11.46: Royal Priest Research
----------------------------
P.O. Box 10546
Sedona, Arizona 86336
Lyssa Royal
602-282-320S
Publication is: The Prism
Founded in 1975, an independent research group with no members. Lyssa Royal
mixes generally- accepted research techniques skills with less provable
methods, such as channeling. Thus far, their research has produced two
books, "The Prism of Lyra - An Exploration of Human Galactic Heritage" (130
pages) and "Visitors From Within" (171 pages).
Lyssa Royal organizes and conducts weekly sessions, private consultations,
and special events. She offers tapes of her numerous channeling sessions
which discuss various topics and  extraterrestrial beings both physical and
nonphysical. Each tape is 90 minutes and $12.00; complete set (9 tapes) is
$75.00.
"The Prism" is periodic newsletter which details news, list of recent
channeling tapes, books, etc.

11.47: The Search for EXtraterrestrial Intelligence
---------------------------------------------------
NASA HEADQUARTERS, WASHINGTON, D.C.
Office of Space Science and Applications
Michael Braukus
(Phone:  [phone])

Ames Research Center, Mountain View, Calif.
Michael Mewhinney
(Phone:  [phone])

Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
Mary Hardin
(Phone:  [phone])


11.48: Sirian Rainbow Lodge
---------------------------
P.O. Box 2108
St. Petersburg, Florida 33731
Liah GoldenHawk (Co Founder)
L. Baird (Bookkeeper)
813-822-8154
Pulbication is Solar Trek; founded in 1990.
Primarily an extraterrestrial outpost program, provides information from
the alien point of view. The Sirian Rainbow Lodge is the StarSystem Sirian
Outpost; interested in sharing all types of positive ET Alien knowledge.
ET & UFO Network where Contactees and others may share eexperiences,
contacts and opinions. Focuses on believing and possibilities, rather than
proving any theories; focuses mainly on occupants of UFOs and alien
knowledge.
The Lodge is led by the Bennu who is an alien of the Nordic type from
StarSystem Sirius. To raise money, the Lodge sells books and booklets by
the Bennu and "Solar Trek", the ET Alien Quarterly Journal.

11.49: SKYNET
--------------
257 Sycamore Glen
Pasadena, California 91105
Ann Druffel (Project Co Ordinator)
213-256-8655
Publication is Skynet Guides; Founded in1965; 50 - 100 members.
Established to serve as a tracking system for UFO reports in the Los
Angeles, California area. Its original purpose was to receive UFO reports
at the time that witnesses were viewing the objects, thus centering their
efforts on real-time viewing, photographing, monitoring, rather than
relying on after-the-fact analysis.
Upon joining, members agree to contact other SKYNET members whenever an
unusual sighting is  occurring for members to view, photograph and monitor
the object in real-time while not having to wait for an after-the-fact
presentation. This contacting of other SKYnet members that a sighting is
occurring is the only obligation of members. All calls from the public
receive an in-depth phone interview by an assigned SKYNET official and if
warranted, further field investigations are conducted.

11.50: SOCIE'TE' BELGE d'ETUDE des PHENOMENES SPATIAUX (SOBEPS)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Commonly called SOBEPS and the leading group in Belgium. Senior Officers :
President : Michel Bougard, Secretary : Lucien Clerebaut. Contact address
74 Avenue Paul Janson, B-1070, Bruxelles, Belgium.

11.51: Society for Scientific Exploration (SSE)
-----------------------------------------------
Office of the Secretary
P.O. Box 3818,
University Station
Charlottesville, Virginia 22903-0818
Laurence W. Fredrick (Secretary)
804-924-4905 : 804-924-3104
Publishes the Journal of Scientific Exploration and The Explorer .
Established in 1982. A tax-exempt group that investigates various
anomalies, including UFOs. Although its president Professor Peter Sturrock
of Stanford University, all contact with SSE should be made through
Laurence W. Fredrick. The goal of the SSE is to gain further understanding
of anomalous phenomena (including UFOs) and to share this knowledge with
the public. The Society considers anomalous phenomena to be incidents that
appear to contradict existing scientific knowledge; regarded by the
scientific community as being outside their established fields of inquiry.
They use the "Journal of Scientific Exploration" as an avenue to discuss
anomalous phenomena and present research results to the scientific and
scholarly community; its members are drawn from practitioners of science
who have acquired a first-hand knowledge and understanding of the
scientific process. The Society holds annual international meetings and
periodically scheduled regional meetings.
To promote co-operation, and to accommodate other levels of activity and
interest, the Society has created the categories of "Corresponding Member"
and "Associate".  "Associates" receive the "Journal of Scientific
Exploration" (two issues a year) and "The Explorer" (two issues a year). An
Associate may submit letters and other items for publication in the
Newsletter, may submit articles for publication in the Journal (each
article must be sponsored by a "Full Member"), and may attend Society
meetings by arrangement with a "Full Member". A person wishing to become an
"Associate" may do so by completing an Application Form and sending it with
a check for the annual dues to the Secretary.
"Full Membership" is reserved for those associated with major universities,
government entities or corporate research institutions who have an
established reputation in a traditional branch of science.
"Emeritus Membership" provides the privileges of Full Membership to
similarly qua]ified retirees at a lower annual rate.
"Student Membership" is limited to graduate students enrolled in academic
institutions.
"Corresponding Membership" is open to members of designated organizations.
A "Corresponding Member" receives, and is entitled to submit articles to
the "Journa] of Scientific Exploration".

11.52: The Societv for the Investigation of the Unexplained (SITU)
------------------------------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 265
Little Silver, New Jersey 07739
Nancy Warth (Membership Secretary)
201-842-5229
Publication is Pursuit
Founded in 1965 by Ivan T. Sanderson
A non-profit, tax-exempt organization; collects data on unexplained events,
promotes proper investigation of both individua] reports and general
subjects, and reports significant data to its members. SITU studies
unexplained events that orthodox science does not (or will not)
investigate.
SITU maintains reference files which include original reports, newspaper
and other clipping correspondence, audio tapes, films, photographs,
drawings, maps, etc. Copies of these items a available to members only.
Membership fees include the magazine "Pursuit", which is published
regularly.

11.53: System Ready
-------------------
7154 North University Drive Suite 116
Tarnarac, Florida 33321
Concentrates on building devices which can be used to detect UFOs. Their
book, "Detecting UFOs" details these devices.

11.54: Transcendental Communications A Division of LAMAT Research
-----------------------------------------------------------------
444 North Amelia #9C
San Dimas, California 91773
Don Grantharn (Director & Systems Operator)
714-599-6769 : 714-599-6270 (Operates at 300/1200/2400 BPS) : 714-599-5045
Transcendental Communications Newsletter
A scientific, investigative organization interested in UFOs and related
phenomena. Transcendental Communications is the largest UFO-related
computer network bulletin board system (BBS) on the west coast. The aim of
Transcendental Comrnunications is to get the word out to those interested
in current UFO information; a clearinghouse for books, documents,
publications, audio ar video tape interviews, seminars, documentaries and
UFO films and footage.
The main focus of Transcendental Communications is the operation of a BBS
through which interested parties can participate in on-line conversation.
read various reports, news items or articles, or leave messages for other
members.
Transcendental Communications publishes the "Transcendental Communications
Newsletter" which outlines topics that have been discussed on the BBS and
provides current UFO-related articles. FAX number available so that
interested parties can send them copies of reports, inforrnation, etc.
Basic Member Dues       $13.50
System Member   $39.50
Full Member $49.50
Newsletter for one year; list of publications, audio and video tapes; six
months BBS access

11.55: UFO Contact Center International (UFOCCI)
------------------------------------------------
3001 South 288th Street #304
Federal Way, Washington 98003
Aileen Bringle (Director)
206-946-2248
The Missing Link
June 1981
A non-profit organization dedicated to helping people who have had
traumatic, bizarre experiences or sightings of UFOs. A secondary goal of
UFOCCI is to promote public awareness of the UFO contactee phenomenon.
UFOCCI works with each contactee to help them understand their experiences
via hypnosis, group meetings and open seminars. Each year, over the Labor
Day weekend, UFOCCI conducts a conference called "Jorpah" (which means
'Cosmic Gathering') in which the past year's activities are summed up and
discussed. These gatherings are held at different places throughout the
country. The date and time of these conferences are announced in The
"Missing Link" newsletter.
UFOCCI holds monthly meetings the fourth Saturday of each month.

Associate Directors (by State and Canada):

Ak  Thomas Wilson 845 West 70th Anchorage, Alaska 99518  ph:907-522-3 172
Az  Helene CharboMeau P.O. Box 1369 Safford, AZ 85548-1369  ph:602-428-6437
    Ray Jordan 3831 North Paradise Road Flagstaff, AZ 86004  ph:602-774-6334
    Tom Dongo Box 2571 Sedona, AZ 86336  ph:602-282-562 1
Ca  Mark Andrews 811 Victoria Costa Mesa, CA 92627  ph:714-645-7046
    Michael & DoMa Farrner 123 Henshaw #402 Chico, CA 95926  ph:916-894-3327
    Ron Rodriquez 3948 Berrywood Santa Maria, CA 93455  ph:805-937-8050
    Allen Drake 13222 Louvre Street Pacoima, CA 91331  ph:818-896-3572
    Robert Shiepe 2865 Corning Street Los Angeles, CA 90034  ph:213-836-8362
Co  Jackie Blue P.O. Box 1015 Paonia, CO 81428  ph:303-527-4412
    AM Ulrich P.O. Box 117 Paonia, CO 81428  ph:303-527-3257
De  Cary Dickey P.O. Box 5535 Wilmington, Delaware 19808  ph:302-994-7509
Il  Carolyn Baum-Hawtree 1732 New Lenox Road Joliet, llinois 60433
ph:815-726-1756
Io  Jason Hooten 525 Avenue D Fort Madison, Iowa 52627  ph:319-372-5558
Ma  Robert Poutenis Route 9 Box 586 Pownal, Maine 04069
Md  Patrick O'Connell 12628 Black Saddle Lane Germantown, Maryland 20874
      ph:301-972-1980
Mo  Barbara Becker 6219 Enright Avenue St. Louis, Missouri 63130
    Claudia Sanderson-Jones 606 N.E. 114th Street Kansas City, Missouri 64155
      ph:816-734-9000
Ne  Kristy Buckles 3701 NW Conifer Court Lincoln 68521 ph:402-489-3 162
Nv  Valdemar Valerian P.O. Box 81407 Las Vegas, NV 89180-1407
ph:702-878-4380
Nj  Linda Dudar 20 Jackson Avenue Washington 07882  ph:201-689-7144
    Maryellen Kelly P.O. Box 1874 Champaign 61820 ph:217-359-9343
    Katie Sandberg Route 4 Box 1065-42 West Plains 65775  ph:417-256-0945
Nm  Mary Ellen Masters 504 Kiva Avenue Aztec 87410  ph:505-334-9841
    Cliff Stone 1421 East Tilden Roswell 88201 505-625-0920
Pennsylvania:
    Terri Shupenko 731 East 10th Street Erie 16503
    Dennis Viglo 326 College Street Youngsville 16371 814-563-4322
Tennessee:
    Herrnan L. Langley P.O. Box 422 Smyrna 37167 615-459-0165
    Brent Raynes 326 Haggard Street Waynesboro 38485 615-722-5976
Tx  Anne Bower 815 Peach Spring Houston 77088 713-931-0930
    Harv Howard P.O. Box 904 Manchaca 78652 5 12-282-203 1
    Judy Stryker 3409 Ruth Road Fort Worth 76118
    Sunshine Williams P.O. Box 162485 Austin 78716
    Donna Brown P.O. Box 337 Vidor 77670-0337 409-769-5828
    Goldie King P.O. Box 4455 Pasadena 77501 713-475-2785
    Donna Tietze P.O. Box 260 Friendswood 77546-0260 713-482-8641
Ut  Kaye Studstrup 2114 East 6805 South Salt Lake City 84121
Wa  Lozanna Elwood 3001 South 288th #304 Federal Way, 98003 ph:206-946-2248
    Jarnes C. Van Avery 6226 110th Avenue N.E. Kirkland 98033
ph:206-889-2026
Wisconsin:
    Linda Houston N7576 Timber Drive, Rib Lake 54470  ph:801 -263-2551
    Dr. Robert & Felicia Moore P.O. Box 825 Marshfield 54449 715-387-4639
Wy  Sheri Gould 705 South Burritt, Buffalo 82834 307-684-2755
Canada:
    Shirle Klein Carsh 6973 -129th Street Surrey, B.C. V3W 9A9 604-597-5822
??  Bill Hamilton III 249 North Brand Blvd Suite 651 Glendale 91203
Ph:818-547-6935
    Heidi Duval & Henrietta Raines P.O. Box 12 Crested Butte 81224

11.56: UFO Fllter Center
------------------------
618 Davis Drive
Mount Vernon, Indiana 47620
Neil Gilchrist P.O. Box 764 Nelson, B.C. VlL 5R4 604-825-9292
Francis L. Ridge (Director) :
812-838-3120 / 812-838-9843
Publication is: UFO Intelligence Summary and was founded in 1971
A one-man effort which investigates UFO activity, mainly in the Indiana
area. The goals of this group are to conduct a systematic computer study of
UFO data from a six-state region: Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Ohio,
Kentucky, and Tennessee; this study covers sightings beginning before 1947
to the present.

11.57: UFO Information Retrieval Center (UFOIRC)
------------------------------------------------
3131 West Cochise Drive #158
Phoenix, Arizona 85051-9501
Thomas M. Olsen (President)
602-997-1523 : 602-870-3178
Publication is: Reference for Outstanding UFO Sighting Reports
Founded in: 1966
A non-membership organization which collects, analyzes, publishes and
disseminates information about UFOs. UFOIRC also compiles statistics,
conducts research programs, sponsors photo exhibits, maintains a 200-volume
Library, and provides special educational services geared to children and
students.
UFOIRC publishes books, symposium proceedings, reprints of magazine
articles, and a bibliography of currently available information on the UFO
phenomenon.

11.58: UFO Investigators League
--------------------------------
Box 753 New Brunswick,
New Jersey 08903
Timothy Green Beckley
Publishes: UFO Spotters Newsletter
Started in 1990
A new organization under the auspices of Timothy Green Beckley who is
striving to expand his international network of investigators who wish to
investigate UFO cases in their areas.
Members receive membership card. investigators certificate, field manual,
and a subscription to the "UFO Spotters Newsletter". Membership is $20.00
per year.

11.59: THE UFO, PARANORMAL AND CONSPIRACY BBS
---------------------------------------------
Internet Contact: [e-mail] (Elite Enterprises)
           Modem: 312/604-8161  (24 HOURS)

11.60: UFO REPORTING AND INFORMATION SERVICE (UFORIS)
----------------------------------------------
Information Director : Dale Goudie. Contact address : P.O. Box 832, Mercer
Island, WA, 98040, USA. see also Computer UFO Network. Phone (voice)
[phone]

11.61: UFO Study Group of Greater St. Louis
------------------------------------
P.O. Box 31544 St. Louis, Missouri 63131
John Schroeder (President)
Helen Hanke (Secretary)
314-352-3058
Publishes the The UFO Enigma.
A non-profit organization formed in 1968 to investigate UFOs and to collect
and disseminate information germane to the UFO phenomena. They hold
meetings at the Farm and Home building, 110 West Lockwood (at Gore),
Webster Groves, Missouri at 2:00 p.m. on the second Sunday of the months
September through May.
This group operates in close cooperation with MUFON, CUFOS, and with
numerous organizations around the world in order to coordinate UFO research
and information.

11.62: Ufology Research of Manitoba (UFOROM)
--------------------------------------------
UFOROM is a private, non-profit and volunteer organisation which is
involved in rational discourse, investigation and research on UFOs and
related phenomena. It was formed in 1975.  All types of UFO-related
phenomena have been studied by UFOROM, including traces, crash-retrievals,
abductions and cattle mutilations.  In addition, some UFOROM associates
also study fortean and psychic phenomena.  UFOROM publishes an annual
survey of UFO activity in Canada, comparable to the Ferrughelli reports
on American cases.  Case data is provided by co-operative Canadian
researchers across Canada.

UFOROM is not open to general public membership.  However, independent
investigators and researchers throughout North America and particularly
in Canada are associated with UFOROM by way of their contributions of
case information and data from their own areas.  Such contributions are
welcomed and readily acknowledged by UFOROM.

Although UFOROM does not publish a journal or newsletter for general
distribution, associates frequently exchange information on an informal
basis.  This information is made available through articles and reports
published in UFO magazines or books, written or edited by UFOROM
associates.

UFOROM is associated with an irregular ufozine titled the SWAMP GAS
JOURNAL. [See UFO Publications section]  It is available in hard copy
through zine exchange or for a "cost" of one International Postal Reply
Coupon per issue.  As an experiment, the most recent issue also has
been made available in electronic format via INTERNET by posting a
request to: [e-mail]

UFOROM associates are involved with the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
Studies (CUFOS), the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) and various other
organisations.  UFOROM functions independently, but operates with an
understanding of complete co-operation and information exchange with
interested and serious researchers in their specialised areas of
interest.

UFOROM is devoted to the rational and objective study of UFOs and
related phenomena, as well as other controversial phenomena such as
crop circles.  All views on these phenomena, including both proponent
and contrary standpoints, are considered.  In this regard, UFOROM
associates tend to engage in dialogue with both "believers" and
"debunkers".  It is hoped that such attempts to "bridge the gap"
between the two sides of the debate will encourage more constructive
discourse.

Correspondence for UFOROM can be snailmailed to:

                              UFOROM
                             Box 1918
                         Winnipeg, Manitoba
                           Canada  R3C 3R2

11.63: United Aerial Phenomena Agency (UAPA)
-------------------------------------
P.O. Box 347032
Cleveland, Ohio 44134-7032
Allan J. Manak (Chairman)
Rick R. Hilberg (Vice Chairman)
Founded 1966
A non-profit organization dedicated to the investigation and study of UFOs
and related subjects. Its two publications are "Flying Saucer Digest"
(quarterly) and "Weirdology" (bi- monthly). UAPA sells a wide variety of
books, maps, back issues, rare items, etc. A catalog is available for
$1.00.

11.64: Universal Articulate Interdimensional Understanding of Science
--------------------------------------------------------------
UNARIUS Academy of Sciences
145 South Magnolia Avenue
El Cajon, California 92020-4522
Dr. Ernest L. Norman (Co Founder)
Ruth E. Norman (Co Founder)
Charles Spaegel (Vice President)
619-447-4170
Publishes the UNARIUS Light Magazine since1954.
A non-profit, New Age organization which has pioneered the teaching of Past
Life Therapy since 1954. This teaching is given to the student through a
curriculum that attunes the truth seeker to the high frequency energy
maintained by the authors, who are Advanced Spiritual Beings living on the
Inner Planes. UNARIUS receives most of its information and instructions
through channeling with the Higher Beings (Space Brothers). UNARIUS writes,
publishes, and distributes a complete course of study describing the New
Sciences of Life. This course material is covered over 100-plus texts of
the UNARIUS Academy of Sciences; augmented by over 100 video programs. The
course material covers missing piece's of man's prehistory, the enigma
surrounding the dilemma of unresolved problems in science, politics and
religion, and the future for mankind in the 21st century.
Class sessions are held at the UNARIUS Center on Wednesdays & Sundays at
7:00 p.m.; class fee is S10.00. Some courses are also available on TV
stations throughout California. All of the materials are directly related
to the UNARIUS goal of achieving Higher Awareness.
One of this group's main tenets is that there are superior extraterrestrial
forces which control the Earth's destiny and which know the fate of
mankind. With the teachings provided by UNARIUS, they feel that each person
can become cosmically attuned to higher spiritual forces and can become
aware of Reality and what is in store for humans. UNARIUS teaches that the
Interplanetary Confederation, a coalition of 33 existing planets, is
building 33 spacecraft that will form a giant city and will descend to
Earth in the year 2001. This "building" or "city" will descend on land
purchased for this purpose in the southern California area and will be a
gathering spot for people to come and learn about Cosmic Awareness.
In addition to students, interested parties can join UNARIUS for $50.00 per
year.

11.65: Victorian U.F.O. Research Society Inc. (VUFORS)
-------------------------------------------------------
AVUFORS is the largest UFO society in the Southern hemishpere and has
been in existence since the 1950s. (membership approx. 400)
Regular discussion nights are held and the Society publishes a
quarterly magazine called The Australian U.F.O. Bulletin which
details UFO related information from Australia and abroad.

Membership:
        Overseas (non Australian) $US20
        (Personal cheques cannot be accepted unless an additional
        $US5 is included to cover bank charges - We request you remit
        bank cheques or International Postal Orders)

        Membership entitles you to receive a copy of "The Australian
        UFO Bulletin", our quarterly magazine to members. The
        bulletin contains information from within Australia and
        overseas.

        Total number of members is currently around 400.

History:
        The "Australian Flying Saucer Research Society (Victorian
Branch)" was formed on the 17th of February, 1957 as a branch of the
"Australian Flying Saucer Research Society" and later that year was
reorganised as the "Victorian Flying Saucer Research Society" with
Mr. Peter E. Norris L.L.B. as President. In 1968 the name was again
altered - this time to the "Victorian U.F.O. Research Society".
The current executive has been in place since 1978.
The Society has held a dispassionate attitude on U.F.O.s, claiming
it is a scientific problem deserving closer attention.
Membership of this Society - which maintains the largest membership
of any U.F.O. organisation in the Southern Hemisphere - is open to
all who are genuinely interested in the subject.

Significant cases studied:
        - The Frederick Valentich disappearance (1978).  Frederick
Valentich was a twenty year old member of the Royal Australian Air
Force who disappeared on a solo private flight across Bass Strait
after radioing that an object was hovering on top of his Cessna 182.

        - The Knowles Family Encounter.  The case of a family on a
car trip across the Nullarbor Plain in South Australia who were
buzzed by a UFO that at one stage lifted the Knowles car into the
air only to drop it to the road seconds later.

Postal Address:             Internet contact:
        P.O. Box 43                    email: [e-mail]
        Moorabbin                      phone: [phone]
        Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3189       fax  : [phone]


=== Disclaimer
--------------
Disclaimer: Please Note that I don't claim that any of this research strictly
as my own. It comes from many books, articles, electronic postings and
people. I have tried to always include where the source of the information
at the bottom of the sections when I could.

=== FAQ Requests
----------------
If you wish to request the current copy of this FAQ, Please include in
your email message the maximum number of lines per message systems mail
program can handle so I won't crash your mailbox.  Also remember this is
a big FAQ, make sure you have the disk space. Just so you know I don't
plan on doing any major work on this FAQ till December, I need to catch
up on other work. Send Request for FAQ's ONLY to:

[e-mail]

=== FAQ Suggestions & Corrections
---------------------------------
If you have any suggestions or would like to add something to the FAQ,
PLEASE DO NOT RESEND ME A COMPLETE COPY OF THE FAQ WITH YOUR COMENTS MIXED
IN. I  already have the latest version. So please just slectively edit the
approprate portions of the FAQ into your message, and include the section
numbers. Also please send me any corrections you may have for the FAQ. If
you or your orgionization is mentioned in the above FAQ and you feel I have
misrepresented you please let me know so I can correct the problem.
Send all corrections & suggestions to:

                            Bitnet: Fsdlk@alaska
( FAQ Part 3 of 3)        Internet: [e-mail]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~  ...........  .......          .           .       .            ~
~  .            .      .        Nasha tai no kasei!         .   . ~
~  ...          .......           .            .                  ~
~  .            .               Prosperity and Long Life, To You. ~
~  .... xisting . hantom              .             .             ~
~                             .                            .      ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ezekiel's Space Ship
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 15:02:59 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 42

Subject: My Friend Ezekial.
  Many years back I was a reader of a magazine called Universarium edited by
Zelrum Karsleigh in Portland, Oregon. He was a person who channeled many
people inclucing a person called Master Yogunda. M. Yogunda was a spirtual
person who once lived on earth as a famous Eastern Indian person in Southern
Calif. This group is no longer operated by Zelrum because  he made this
transmutation several years back (these type people never like to say a
person died). They usually use the word transcended or something to depict a
change in state of being.
  One of the things that this group liked to do was to tell who a person now
living used to be in a previous life. I remember they said the US president
Lyndon B. Johnson was Sam Houston the father of Texas in a previous life.
They said that in this lifetime president Johnson's brother was named Sam
Houston Johnson, and I never did check to see if that was true or not. They
also mentioned that Joseph Busby, a spiritual teacher who was at that time
living in the physical form in England was the present incarnation of
Ezekial.  Later on I found that he was going to be appearing  in a place in
Log Gatos, Calif. at a certain time. I made arrangements and came over and
talked with him. His wife met me before I saw him. She came over and shook
hands with me and the energy from her hand came into my hand, and then went
throughout my body and returned to her and nearly knocked her down. She
staggered a little and asked me if she had met me before. I then told her
that we had met before because I was on Earth during the time that Jesus was
in the Holy Land, my name was then Jacob DonAmi. I was a statesmen and judge
and I became a follower of Jesus afer I heard him speak in the synagogue in
Capernium. She then said that was interesting because she herself had lived
during that time.
  She then showed my in to where Ezekial was and we had the conversaion that I
have mentioned in a previous posting. Ezekial during that time, when
educated people didn't want to hear about UFOs, was giving a lecture earlier
to the University of Calif. at Santa Barbara, Calif., I think. The title of
the lecture was The Esoteric Significance of Flying Saucers. They had so
many people listening to the lecture  that they had to put speakers outside
the auditorium. Mr. Busby had been given many degrees from certain colleges
although he wasn't a graduate himself.
  He had (and he is probably dead now) an unusual group that he headed. When
they needed some money for a project they would contact the other side (the
spiritual people) and tell them what they needed and the spirtual folk would
tell them what they would send them. His group would then consentrate and
the object would appear.  One time a $25,000  necklace appeared, they sold
it and used the money to do what they planned to do in the first place.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!ukma!cs.widener.edu!dsinc!pitt.edu!seawasp
From: [e-mail] (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 92 22:34:40 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 32
Originator: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes:
>>Sea Wasp writes:

    (Afterimages as a good explanation for seeing "auras")

>        That's fine.  I can accept that as a plausible and probable answer.
>My only question--how could I extend the aura from my fingertips while
>looking at them in the dark.  This would also be done an hour after being in
>the dark so that there weren't any "spots" from the light.  Just curious and
>thanks for an explanation. :) Colleen

    How dark was it? If it was COMPLETELY dark -- that is, you couldn't
see ANYTHING at all, not a window and not even the vague outline of your
hands -- then afterimages cannot be the explanation.

    However, if you could see your hands even faintly against the
ceiling or whatever -- even as just dark outlines -- then you could still
have afterimages. To be exact, an afterimage against a neutral colored
background will tend to be the INVERSE of the color of the object; so
if your hands appeared to be dark outlines against a lighter ceiling,
the afterimage "aura" would appear as a lighter "glow" around the hands.
And since your eyes get more sensitive the longer you stay in the dark,
the "aura" would appear to both brighten (just as a more sensitive TV
camera "burns" more easily) and get larger, as smaller differences in
brightness became more perceptible, and the slight movement of your
hands and eyeballs caused darkening and lightening of small parts of
the retina.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (DON KAUFFMAN)
Subject: OP:  AAV FAQ
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5
Sender: [e-mail] (UNT USENet Adminstrator)
Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 23:55:26 GMT


    I didn't like the whole idea of this FAQ thing,    but I have
    to admit that I think that it really turned out just fine.

                        Don Kauffman
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Aura Action Now!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sutton)
Date: 27 Oct 92 10:23:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 27

[e-mail](kal)  wed 21 Oct 1992 13:49:00 GMT   types--
>There are some valid reasons for testing....

WellI wonder if ideasexperiments etc will ever turn into action.
So often skeptics ask where's the beef(so to type) when it comes to
psychic claims & yearn for rigorous eperiments.
If someone claims to be able to at least most of the time see at will
auras & is willing to partake in studies,experiments etc then if cost
effort,time etc allow then why not GO FOR IT--
Alas often after a flurry of enthusiasm the hopes & plans evaporate
into the ether of eternity never to congeal again.
So if people here on the Net claim that can detect something that may
be called aura & doing some studies,experiments etc are indeed a possibilty
then I hope people involved can keep us posted here(at least on alt.paranormal
as it might not bear directly on some groups).

Where's the evidence may say the skeptic.
Where's the effort say I.

************************
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY
OR JUST WAITING TO SEAL
THE ROYALTY DEAL?
************************

    And do they see aura's(just to keep some connection with a.a.v)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!decwrl!concert!samba!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Bruce Scott)
Subject: Re: OP:  AAV FAQ
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: lambada.oit.unc.edu
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 00:56:11 GMT
Lines: 8


Is this available via ftp? This reader won't allow s or R.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: I know an alien.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 92 11:41:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert James Hoge/) writes:
=Do you want to know who?
=
Well, Ross Perot DOES look suspiciously like a Ferengi.

      --Big Ears
      --Whiny Voice
      --Merchant

Coincidence? I think not! :)


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Chester            |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
[e-mail] |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Politically Incorrect      |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us
Future Lunar Colonist      |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: [e-mail] (Robert J Barth)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Oct 92 21:45:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sound+Vision BBS [phone]
Lines: 16
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.18)

>>My "aura" is blue and yellow, and there is more aura on the left side
>>of my head. It sorta looks like fuzzy sparks radiating radially out of
>>my head. Looks kinda eerie...

hahaha reminds me of the time I had my signature "analysed" at Disneyland.
They put my signature into this huge startrek-type computer, and I got a
wavey line on a piece of graph paper out of it.
At the time I thought it was amazing :-)

-rob-

=----------------------------------------.----------------------------------=
|           -   Rob  Barth   -           | InterNet : [e-mail] |
| Sound & Vision BBS (+44) (0)932 252323 | FidoNet  : Sysop, 2:254/14       |
| RJB Communications (+44) (0)932 253131 | Nyx      : [e-mail]  |
=----------------------------------------.----------------------------------=
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news
From: Peter Marreck <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Xxdate: Mon, 26 Oct 92 23: 44:57 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: 128.253.96.12
Nntp-Posting-User: [e-mail]
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 04:39:48 GMT
Lines: 11

Re: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?

I saw this on TV too. I don't know what it was on, but I remember the
Russian guy saying how strange he felt it was. It was part of a larger
discussion of UFO's, maybe on Unsolved Mysteries or Sightings or
something. I think it was Sightings.
One test for finding out whether it was really "bloom" would be to see if
the alleged "bloom" was parallel or perpendicular to the CCD "grain", or
to the edges of the picture. Would this work?

-Pete
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news
From: Peter Marreck <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Xxdate: Mon, 26 Oct 92 23: 46:08 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: 128.253.96.12
Nntp-Posting-User: [e-mail]
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 04:40:54 GMT
Lines: 11

Re: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?

I saw this on TV too. I don't know what it was on, but I remember the
Russian guy saying how strange he felt it was. It was part of a larger
discussion of UFO's, maybe on Unsolved Mysteries or Sightings or
something. I think it was Sightings.
One test for finding out whether it was really "bloom" would be to see if
the alleged "bloom" was parallel or perpendicular to the CCD "grain", or
to the edges of the picture. Would this work?

-Pete
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!rutgers!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj
From: [e-mail] (Jason D Corley )
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: I know an alien.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Oct 92 04:43:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Patrick Chester) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert James Hoge/) writes:
>=Do you want to know who?
>=
>Well, Ross Perot DOES look suspiciously like a Ferengi.
>
>      --Big Ears
>      --Whiny Voice
>      --Merchant
>
>Coincidence? I think not! :)

As we ALL know, H ROSS PEROT is a GREY or one of their SINISTER AGENTS!
He has used his SECRETS OF THE ANCIENT ASTRONAUTS to ENSNARE vast
numbers of otherwise NORMAL trailer-park denizens.  We MUST stop him
before he ATTACKS our AMERICAN VALUES and DESTROYS our WAY of LIFE
and TRANSFORMS our WOMEN into 600-MILE LONG BOWLS OF JELLO SALAD!!!!!!

He will do this EVEN if we DO NOT elect him President.

We are DOOMED unless we stand in small squares in the mysterious
CROP CIRCLES that MIRACULOUSLY APPEARED when a guy WALKED AROUND
in a corn field for a LONG TIME and say, in unison, "Kibo is a
weiner-head!  Kibo is a weiner-head!  And we will never eat the yellow
snow!  Amen!"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nic.unh.edu!unhtel!morwyn!forrie
From: [e-mail] (Forrest Aldrich)
Subject: Re: OP:  AAV FAQ
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Vision Graphics
              Dover, NH
              USA
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 05:22:51 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: morwyn.uucp![e-mail] (Forrest Aldrich - SysAdmin)
Lines: 23

From article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (DON KAUFFMAN) has written:
+--------------------
|
|     I didn't like the whole idea of this FAQ thing,    but I have
|     to admit that I think that it really turned out just fine.
|
|                         Don Kauffman
+--------------------

    I think the author(s) of the FAQ deserve a round of applause!
    <frantic clapping>

    Excellent job.  I really like it.  Thanks for the contribution.

    Forrest

--
       -----------          Forrest Aldrich          -----------
       -------     morwyn![e-mail]      -------
       ----                             ----
       --         VISION GRAPHICS --    Dover, NH - USA           --
       ------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: Human yet not human, stuck here on earth
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 07:17:08 GMT
Lines: 52

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>I put a question to you all, A thought,
>
>    What of those who are or show all the signs of being human, born to
>human parents and yet don't feel that they are human at all? That somehow


I take this post as a common reference to what some people call
Manic-Depresive. To me that is a scientific term for something that science
does not understand on all but a superficial level.

If you are like me and tend not to discount 5000 years of previous exploration
into the cosmic qualities of the human existance (written that is) then
reincarnation enters into the explaination of why some people feel this way.
I believe that anyone who is sensitive to their own inner nature feels this
way at times, some more than others. Why am I here? Why is the world so
base and grotesque?, etc.

This is due to the inner self being revolted at the 3rd dimensional existance
it has chosen to take on... I find references to this in most spiritual
matteria
l
that has ever crossed my path, be it Christian, Buddist or Hindu, or New Age.
don't even bother to count channeling, contactees and the like...

Some people are more sensitive, in-tune, call it what you will. But this world
has an ugly side to it, for those that are coming into higher awareness. And
it is not something that has to manifest for all on every level. There are
those
that will progress beyond these impressions to realize them for illusion and
the
re are those that never seem to be bothered by it, as they go about thier
lives,
even though in many respects they have a profound spiritual nature.

Jeff-

>    I have noticed to that they talk about dying a lot, as if they would be
>happier, I asked them why and they said they don't fit here and that
>this world does not make sense to them, every thing that should work doesn't
>and the tings that shouldn't do. In thier dreams they say they know how to
>do things and when they awake the ability that they knew how to do
>in the dream didn't transfer, its like someone takes it out their
>hands moments before they wake and make them forget.
>    They offten talk about going home, and home is space to them
>not earth? Could you assist please in solving this riddle.?
>
>Thank you
>Terri
>
PS - intersting question.

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors.sewage.garbage.bullshit.crackpots.fantas
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 07:22:44 GMT
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>I have a name for Greg's new newsgroup:
>>alt.alien.waiting.for.mommy.daddy.teacher.and The President.to tell us
>>DS

 I thought Gregg was going to drop this subject. At least that's what
he posted at one time...
Let it go man.


But like I said before, don't be telling anybody what to talk about here.
Jeff-
>


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: A change in thinking
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 07:34:59 GMT
Lines: 22

>say they become less "religous" and more spiritual. His and other
>research does not show they become "newagers" but only shows they
>start beleiving more in God, whatever God is. They also believe much
>more in life after death. They believe less is the doctrinal side of
>religion and more in the spirituality of it. And naturally, with the
>opening of their minds, they also tend to look at the new age stuff.
>(I am sure I will get a flame for that statement)
>
>One thing I don't want people to start believing is that they come
>back as newagers. Most people that I would label as newagers have
>taken and rejected the narrow-minded Christian religions and
>substituted their own narrow minded newager religion. They have
>shucked one narrow minded view for another.  It has been proven that
>
>Gregg.
>

Hey Gregg, got any extra lables laying around? I need a few if you have
some left over...But I guess you used all yours.
Jeff-


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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: "Linda" Abduction Case - Part 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Below  are the original posting that Don Allen  provided  ParaNet
regarding George Hansen's position on the "Linda" abduction case,
and a rebuttal from Jerome Clark.

We  have provided this material in this fashion for  clarity  and
continuity.

** HOT ITEM **

This was forwarded to me by a friend who is pretty tight in some
UFO circles. According to my friend, this was what was part of
the discussion at the recent get together at the UN. I will
leave it with you. I have no further information available, but
hopefully this posting will serve to stimulate discussion.

Judging from it's contents, I don't think that will be a problem :-)

=========================================================================

Attempted Murder vs. The Politics of Ufology: A Question of

Priorities in the Linda Napolitano Case


by George P. Hansen


-----------------------------------------------------------------
ABSTRACT:  UFO abductee Linda Napolitano claims that she was kidnapped,
assaulted, battered, harassed, and nearly drowned by two agents of the U.S.
government.  Prominent ufologists Budd Hopkins, John E. Mack, David M. Jacobs,
Jerome Clark and Walter H. Andrus, Jr. accept these claims. Hopkins has
collected extensive materials that could be used to help apprehend and convict
the agents.  Yet Hopkins, Clark and Andrus have vigorously argued that these
crimes should not be reported to law enforcement authorities; they indicate
that such could be "politically damaging" to UFO research.  These ufologists
are asked to defend their decision and priorities.
-----------------------------------------------------------------


   Budd Hopkins' case involving the abduction of Linda Napolitano by a UFO has
been discussed in the Wall Street Journal (May 14, 1992, pp. A1, A10), Omni
(April 1992, p. 75), Paris Match (17 Sept. 92, pp. 13-14, 18, 96, 98), and the
New York Times (October 5, 1992, pp. B1, B2).  The Mufon UFO Journal labeled it
"The Abduction Case of the Century" (August 1992, p. 9).  By virtue of this
intense interest, it will become an exemplar for the study of UFO abductions.

   Briefly, it is asserted that at about 3:15 a.m. on November 30, 1989, Linda
Napolitano floated out of her 12th floor apartment in lower Manhattan.
Allegedly three witnesses in a car about two blocks away observed Linda and
three humanoid figures emerge from a window and ascend into a craft hovering
over her building.  Two of the witnesses, Richard and Dan, were government
security officers who were guarding the third witness, a dignitary.  More than
a year after the case, Richard and Dan wrote to Hopkins describing what they
saw, and a few weeks later they visited Linda in her apartment.  Hopkins has
never met these two but has over 80 pages of letters from them, and he has
accumulated much other material pertinent to the case.

   The affair is quite complex, and the story is now only beginning to be told.
Hopkins presented a few details at the 1992 MUFON convention in Albuquerque and
then in the September 1992 issue of the Mufon UFO Journal. One of the most
disturbing elements of the case is that felonies were allegedly committed by
the government agents; these include assault, battery, kidnapping and attempted
murder.

   Hopkins' published account of this aspect is so sketchy that some might
consider it deliberately misleading.  His entire written summary is only one
sentence long: "In April and again in October 1991, Linda would suffer hours-
long forced confinements and interrogations at the hands of these confused
frightened `law-enforcement' officers; she would be struck by a car during a
chase through the streets of lower Manhattan" (Mufon UFO Journal, September
1992, pp. 13, 14).  Hopkins' brief statement hardly conveys the gravity of the
situation.  It suggests that he may have taken these matters much too lightly.


The kidnappings and attempted murder

   On January 28, 1992, Linda Napolitano contacted Richard Butler and requested
a meeting because she was concerned about her personal safety, and she was
worried that Hopkins might not be able to adequately protect her.  Linda had
earlier become friends with Butler at meetings in the home of Budd Hopkins.  On
February 1, 1992, Linda met with Butler along with Joseph Stefula, a former
Special Agent with the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command who has
extensive contacts in law enforcement.

   During the meeting, Linda stated that in April 1991 she encountered security
agent Richard on the street near her apartment.  She was asked to get into a
car that Dan was driving, but she refused.  Richard then picked her up and,
with some struggle, forced her into the automobile.  Linda reported that she
was driven around for 3 1/2 hours and interrogated about the aliens.

   At the MUFON symposium in July 1992, Linda was asked if she had reported the
kidnapping to the police.  She said that she had not and went on to say that
the kidnapping was legal because it had to do with national security; she later
commented that she did not want to go head to head with a government agency
because she might be killed and pieces of her might be found in the East River
(Hopkins did not dispute these statements).  Linda did remember another car
being involved with the kidnapping, and under hypnotic regression she recalled
the license plate number of that automobile, as well as part of the number of
the car she was in.  Hopkins reports that the numbers have been traced to
particular agencies.

   During the February 1 meeting with Stefula and Butler, Linda reported that
on the morning of October 15, 1991, Dan pulled her into a red Jaguar sports
car.  Linda happened to be carrying a tape recorder and was able to
surreptitiously record a small part of Dan's questioning, but within a few
minutes he discovered and confiscated it.  Dan drove to a beach house on the
shore of Long Island.  There he demanded that Linda remove her clothes and put
on a white nightgown, similar to the one she wore the night of the UFO
abduction.  He said he wanted to have sex with her.  She refused but then
agreed to put on the nightgown over her clothes.  Once she did, Dan droppped to
his knees and started to talk incoherently about her being the "Lady of the
Sands."  She fled the beach house, but Dan caught her on the beach and bent her
arm behind her.  He placed two fingers on the back of her neck, leading Linda
to believe that it was a gun.  He then forced her into the water and pushed her
head under twice.  He continued to rave incoherently, and as her head was being
pushed under for the third time, she believed that she would not come up again.
Then, a "force" hit Dan and knocked him back onto the beach.  Linda started to
run but heard a sound like a gun being cocked.  She looked back and saw Dan
taking a picture of her (the pictures were eventually sent to Hopkins).  She
continued to move, but Richard came running, seemingly out of nowhere.  He
stopped her and convinced her to return to the beach house, and he told her
that he would control Dan by giving him a Mickey Finn.  She agreed to the plan.
Once inside, Richard put Dan in the shower to wash off the mud from the beach.
This gave Linda a chance to search the premises; she recovered her cassette
tape and discovered stationery bearing a Central Intelligence Agency
letterhead.

   In a brief conversation on October 3, 1992, Hopkins told me that Linda came
to him shortly after she arrived back in Manhattan after the kidnapping.  She
was disheveled, had sand in her hair, and was traumatized by the experience.

   Linda also reported to Stefula and Butler that on December 15 and December
16, 1991, one of the men had tried to make contact with her near the shopping
area of the South Street Seaport.  He was driving a large black Fleetwood sedan
with Saudi Arabian United Nations license plates. To avoid him, Linda said that
she went into a shop during the first incident. The second day a similar thing
happened, and she stood next to some businessmen until he left the area.

<<Concluded in next message..>>

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: "Linda" Abduction Case - Conclusion
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<<..Continued from previous message>>


Evidence accumulated by Hopkins

   Hopkins reports accumulating much information about the identities of
Richard and Dan, and this could be extremely helpful in a criminal
investigation.  He has approximately 80 pages of letters from the two men.
These might potentially be used to identify typewriters on which they were
produced.  They may also contain fingerprints.  Hopkins has tape recordings of
Richard and Dan; perhaps these could be used to help identify them by
voiceprints.  Hopkins claims to know which government agency employs the two.
He says that he knows the identity of the dignitary they were guarding, and
this person should be in a position to help locate and identify Richard and
Dan.  (Linda told Stefula and Butler that the dignitary was Javier Perez de
Cuellar, then Secretary General of the United Nations.)


The counsel of ufology's leaders

   The reader may be tempted to dismiss Linda's account as a preposterous
script for a grade B movie, and I personally do not believe her claims.
However, several notable figures in ufology have expressed the conviction that
Linda is telling the truth.  On October 6, 1992, I spoke with Dr. John Mack,
former head of the psychiatry department at Harvard Medical School, and he
confirmed that he had met Linda and concluded that she was not the type of
person to make up this kind of story.  That same day I also spoke with David
Jacobs, a professor of history at Temple University, an abduction research
colleague of Budd Hopkins, and author of the book Secret Life.  He too believed
that Linda was telling the truth.

   Hopkins presented additional secret evidence to Walter Andrus and Jerome
Clark who are now both persuaded of Linda's honesty.  Andrus and Clark are
arguably the two most influential figures in U.S. ufology. Andrus is
International Director of the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), and he organizes the
largest annual conference on UFOs in the country and regularly writes for
MUFON's monthly magazine.  Clark is a columnist for Fate magazine, editor of
International UFO Reporter, and a vice-president of the Center for UFO Studies.

   At a meeting in New York City on October 3, 1992, Linda said that she is
willing to testify against Richard and Dan (though she had previously indicated
that she was afraid of filing charges herself).  I informed those at the
meeting that I was prepared to make a formal request for a federal
investigation of the attempted murder of Linda.  Hopkins, Andrus, and Clark all
vigorously objected to this, and they strongly urged me not to do so.  They
said that such action would be "politically damaging" to ufology.  I was
extremely puzzled by their reasoning and their apparent priorities.  On October
5, 1992, two days later, I called Andrus to make certain that I understood his
position.  I asked him to join with me and request a formal investigation of
these allegations by the proper law enforcement agencies.  I explained to him
that UFO researchers were generally not qualified to investigate attempted
murder.  I was taken aback when Andrus asked me what right I had to raise these
issues.  He again urged that the crimes not be reported.  The following day I
spoke with Clark.  He told me that he accepted Linda's statements, and he
reaffirmed his opposition to reporting the crimes.

   I have not been given a satisfactory explanation for their views.  At risk
is not only the safety of Linda but also that of the general public. If federal
agents have engaged in kidnapping and attempted murder, they should be brought
to justice.  The matter is of great concern for the general citizenry and for
the conduct of UFO abduction research.  I call upon Clark, Andrus, and Hopkins
to publicly explain their rationale and priorities.


20 October 1992

-------End of forwarded post----------------------------------------------


  The Politics of Torquemada; or, Earth Calling Hansen's Planet


     George  Hansen,  who is short on ufological  experience  but
long  on  self-righteous  blather,  is  distributing  a  document
entitled  "Attempted  Murder  vs.  the  Politics  of  Ufology:  A
question  of  Priorities in the Linda Napolitano  Case."   In  an
October  13  memo addressed to Budd Hopkins,  Walt  Andrus,  John
Mack, David Jacobs, and me, Hansen grandiosely announces, "I plan
to publish this in periodicals devoted to UFOs and mail copies to
leading ufologists, boards of directors of MUFON, CUFOS, and  the
Intruders Foundation, and funders of UFO research.  I also expect
to  post  this on electronic bulletin boards and send  copies  to
reporter for Omni, the New York Times, Paris Match, and the  Wall
Street Journal."

     In the extremely unlikely event that Hansen's  communication
does not end up in the CP file of these latter publications and I
receive  a  call or visit from a reporter from the same,  I  will
inform him or her of the following:

     Hansen  claims  that when he expressed a desire to  "make  a
formal  request for a federal investigation of  Linda,  "Hopkins,
Andrus,  and I "strongly urged me not to do so.  They  said  that
such action would be politically damaging to ufology."  I  cannot
speak  for  budd  and  Walt, though I know  them  to  be  men  of
integrity.    I   can,  however,  state  flatly   that   Hansen's
characterization of my remarks is, in its first half,  misleading
and, in its second, blatantly false.

     Hansen called me late on the evening of October 6, two  days
after  my  return  from  New  York  City  and  the  meeting  with
proponents  and critics of the Linda case.  As i have told  Buldd
and others, I have serious problems with the story.  I told  Budd
that  at this stage too many links in the chain of  evidence  are
missing  to  sustain a suspension of  unbelief.   Moreover,  some
aspects  of it seem to me to be impossible.  At the same  time  I
have problems with the charge that Linda hoaxed the entire  even,
an allegation that -- in view of the extraordinary complexity  of
this episode, not to mention what I observed of and learned about
Linda's personality -- strikes me as simplistic and unconvincing.
Tow metal-health professionals (not counting John Mack here)  who
know Linda far better that Hansen does concur, emphatically.

     My  thoughts  about all this are complicated,  and  I  could
devote many pages to them.  I shall not do so here, however.   At
the meeting in which the case was discussed, I kept an open mind;
in  fact, I may have been the only individual there who  had  not
come  to a firm and unshakable conclusion.  Finally  I  suggested
what  I  thought would be a compromise acceptable  to  all  whose
motive was to find the truth.

     I  urged the critics to refrain, over the next  six  months,
form  pursuing  the investigation, which they had  indicated  now
consisted,  or  would soon consist, of knocking on the  doors  of
government  agencies looking for evidence of the elusive  Richard
and  Dan.  I stated that, if this story is true, it is no just  a
UFO   case  but  a  "politically  sensitive"  event  because   it
supposedly  involves a political figure of international  stature
and  therefore  has consequences far outside the  tiny  world  of
ufology.  If that is indeed the case, we would never find Richard
and Dan (if they exist as who they say they are) because  banging
on  the wrong doors could alert the relevant agency that  two  of
its  agents  were  leaking a huge secret.   They  would  then  be
effectively silenced, and we would never learn the truth.

     If,  on  the other hand, the story is a hoax, I went  on,  a
six-month  delay  will  have  no effect on  that  fact,  and  the
evidence  will be just as retrievable then as now.  I assumed  we
were all in this a truth-seeker, I said, and I thought my idea of
a compromise best served that end.

     Rich  Butler  and Joe Stefula, critics  and  honorable  men,
immediately saw my point and agreed.  George "Torquemada" Hansen,
however, proceeded to shout that "science doesn't work that way,"
to  which  I rejoined that , if the story was true, this  is  not
just a scientific matter but a political one as well.  Nothing  I
said  could  have led anyone to think I meant  the  "politics  of
ufology."   The  context  made  it clear  to  everyone  that  the
"politics" to which I referred was the national and international
political  realm of which the Third Man is allegedly  a  resident
and in which (again if they are who they claim to be) Richard and
Dan operate.

     To  anyone who has read my voluminous writings on  ufology's
problems  and  concerns,  the  notion  that  I  would  urge   the
concealment  of truth for any reason -- least of  all  "political
damage" to ufology -- is laughable.
     My  printed  record  shows  just  the  opposite:   a  fierce
commitment  to the truth above and beyond anything else.  No  one
has  been  so consistently, even obsessively,  outspoken  on  the
subject  of  ufologists' need for radical  objectivity,  vigorous
debate, and fearless scrutiny of all issues, regardless of  their
potential  effect  on  someone's misguided  vision  of  ufology's
institutional  interests.   Anyone  who doubts  any  of  this  is
invited to read a few IUR editorials.

     Therefore  I am forced to conclude that Hansen  deliberately
misrepresented  my remarks.  In all the conversations I had  with
the  principals  of  this case, I recall  no  one's  saying  that
Hansen's  proposed  "action  would  be  politically  damaging  to
ufology."   If anyone had used that as an excuse for inaction,  I
would have spoken up, bluntly, to state precisely what I  thought
of that.

     At  any  rate,  what the proponents did talk  about,  in  my
hearing,  was their concern about Linda's well being.  Budd,  who
is  a profoundly decent man, feels strongly that the  attacks  on
Linda are unfair, unfounded and injurious to a woman who  already
has  suffered  enough.   Valid or invalid, this  concern  --  not
damage to the "politics of ufology" (whatever that's supposed  to
mean) -- dominated Budd's conversations with me.

     Still,  since  our exchanges in New York had  been  entirely
cordial, I was unprepared for Hansen's behavior when he called me
on October 6.  I thought he wanted to continue our discussion  of
the  case, but as I started to explain my  thoroughly  ambivalent
feelings, he cut me off, said curtly that he would be brief,  and
asked  if  I thought Linda was lying.  I said I doubted  it,  for
many  reasons, which Hansen, who by now had thoroughly  demonized
the poor woman, did not want to hear.  He informed me that by not
sanctioning  his plan to go to federal authorities, I  was  doing
effectively aiding and abetting gross misuse of police power.   I
said  that  if  such  action were to  be  taken,  it  is  Linda's
decision,  not  mine  or his, to make, and I could  not  see  how
anyone  could  think  otherwise.  Knowing more  about  this  than
Hansen  does, I added that the story contains elements which,  if
Linda  is telling the truth, seem to explain her  what  otherwise
looks  like a puzzling reluctance to act.  In any case, I  added,
it  was  clear  enough that Hansen, his pious  assertion  to  the
contrary  (see the hilariously hypocritical concluding  paragraph
of his article), sought not to help Linda but to destroy her.

     Hansen was at least honest enough not to deny that.  Instead
he chose to try to intimidate me.  He warned that he intended  to
turn my name, address, and phone number, along with Hopkins',  et
al,  into the FBI.  He then launched into a diatribe in which  he
accused  my colleagues and me of "living in a delusional  world."
On  Hansen's planet, apparently, those who disagree with him  are
not  just wrong but deluded and, perhaps, as his  paper  implies,
intellectually corrupt and, moreover, deserving of the  attention
of  police agencies.  I said, "George, you're full of shit,"  and
hung  up on him.  His subsequent pronouncements have only  served
to confirm the cogency of that analysis.

     So  what  is the significance of the Linda  case?   I  don't
know.   Let  me  repeat:  I don't know.   Does  anybody?   It  is
staggeringly  complex, and the available evidence can be read  in
several  ways, though certainly in none.  I admire  Budd  Hopkins
for his dogged, courageous pursuit of the evidence, and I respect
those  who,  like  Butler, Stefula,  and  Don  Johnson,  honestly
dissent  from Budd's interpretation.  As an unbeliever (in  other
words, neither believer nor disbeliever), I support all  rational
debate on the issue.

     In  my opinion, at this stage of an incomplete  and  ongoing
investigation, the only conclusion with which I feel  comfortable
is this one:  Time will tell.  Then again, maybe it won't.  Am am
I the only one out there with a tolerance for ambiguity?

Jerome Clark

October 24, 1992

PARANET FILENAME:  NAPOL.TXT

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12360 alt.alien.visitors:10528 sci.skeptic:32990
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 06:12:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 9

Dear Earth People: I would like to remind all OOBE train riders
that for those in Europe although it is Tuesday here in sunny Calif.
(Standard Pacific Time) it is Wednesday GMT. Tonight we take off for
KOR Mars. Our flight attendants will be from the Ashtar Command and they
are all good guys. Paul Milsom of Europe is organizing another OOBE
train for Europe. He is looking for a few good men (and women). They
need a leader who is adept in astral projection like our person we
call E. of Hawaii. See you in your dreams.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: AURAS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 06:34:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 23

Dear Aura Watchers:
I have been asked to explain fully how the aura camera that Guy Coggins
has actually works.  I never did ask him exactly how his camera worked
but I believe I have a pretty good idea how things operate. First of
all you know that the human eye only picks up a narrow spectrum of the
light band of frequencies. The freq. of the light coming from the aura
is usually a little higher than we can see.  The trick is to beat (hetro-
dyne) a freg. with the freq. of the aura to produce a freg. that our
eyes can pick up. This is done by putting the person you want to look
at in a place where they can put their hands across a static generator
that will charge them up to a high voltage. This is done by putting
their hands, each on a metal plate on the arms of the chair they are
sitting on. Next we have a device that looks like a projector that
put out a sweeping light freq. This is projected towards your subject
and can be seen by the subject. There is an regular (incadescent)
light by the subject that lights up you subject. The beating of these
two frequencies makes a lower harmonic frequency that strikes the
regular movie or slide type screen in back of the subject and lights
it up in the different colors that are in the aura.
  A seperate method is used in conjunction with the computer so that
you can see your own aura on a TV set in front of you.
  I hope this helps.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 06:40:07 PDT
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References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Dear Hairy Lovers:
I can't say that I have had a long enough relationship with a Big Foot
to get to know her will enough to propose marriage.
John Winston. I can honestly say I've never met a Big Foot I didn't like.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors.sewage.garbage.bullshit.crackpots.fantas
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 92 06:51:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Fellow Thinkers: I told myself I would stay out of this dog fight
but if Don Showen can get into it and not cuss then I'm in also. Don
I'm proud of you. We'll make a saint out of you yet.  I think its good
for people to vent their feelings and then we can get them out in the
open and examine them for what they are worth. We may even learn
something about ourselves. Keep it up everybody.
John Winston
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: JOHN WINSTON.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Oct 92 13:46:34 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
Lines: 7

I've had many experiences with "alien" visitors and witnessed at close hand
many examples of UFO activity, and I can't help feel that that John Winston guy
is making it all up.
    Telepathic cmmunication with Bigfoot?  Get a life!  Has he ever produced
any solid proof of all this?  If he has proof, why doesn't he take it up with
the authorities or even a decent publisher...I hear Methuen offer good
royalties on science FICTION nowadays.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: XXX
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Oct 92 13:59:59 GMT
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DDDSWWESSWWWSWW
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Organization: University of Houston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 15:38:00 GMT
Lines: 56

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>This is what our moderated group is somewhat based on. Also so intelligent
>discussion. If mommy, daddy, teacher or The President want access, they
>will have it. If, however, mommy or daddy post something about child
>care, it will NOT make it to the group. If teacher posts something about
>education not relating to UFOs or Abductions, it WILL BE DELETED. If The
>President posts a political advertisment, it will also be DELETED. However,
>all are welcome to post articles from anywhere, whether keyed or copied, on
>the following subjects:
>
>UFOs
>Crop Circles
>Abductions
>SETI
>and much more.
>
>
>Subjects that are NOT welcome are:
>
>Invisible fish (Sorry John, flame unintentional)
>Auras (unless they are Alien auras)
>OOBE (unless induced by aliens)
>HotTubClubbing
>
>
>If that bothers you: LUMP IT! We (I think I speak for all the Serious UFO
>groupees) do not care. We formed the group for some serious discussion. Not
>the fantasy trips that are described in aav anymore.
>
>Gregg.
>
>--
>Let the Greys come. If they are friendly, I will shake their hands and wax
>their saucers. If they are not, I will do what I can to blow them off the
>planet.
>This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.

I agree completely, Gregg. My position is, it is way too late to keep
these things off of a.a.v. So, keep a.a.v. as it is and start a *moderated*
(however liberally moderated) UFO group. That is the only way to do this.

As a somewhat extreme example, the fidonet UFO group has even banned
physics discussion concerned with UFO propulsion methods (this was a while
back and may have changed by now).

p.s. I tried to prepare your .sig at home and the results were DISATOROUS.
Should have consulted a professional. I wonder if my insurance covers this...


===============================================================================
Kal    [e-mail]             My opinions are almost, but not quite,
                                     entirely unlike those of my employer.
===============================================================================

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!news.cs.brandeis.edu!binah.cc.brandeis.edu!CORBISIER
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A change in thinking
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Oct 92 16:15:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Brandeis University
Lines: 8

Jacques Vallee has basically given up studying the whole abduction phenomenon.
He said so at the last national MUFON conference.  I work with people who
have had abduction experiences, and there are just as many of them who
are terrified and think they might be losing their sanity as there are
those who are coming up with New Age terminology to describe their ex-
periences.  You cannot judge any one group of people (yes, this includes
abductees) by one criterion.  I've seen too many confused, scared people
to say otherwise.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12368 alt.alien.visitors:10536 sci.skeptic:32995
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!news.bbn.com!ingria
From: [e-mail] (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 27 Oct 1992 17:26:52 GMT
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of Sun, 18 Oct 92 15:36:32 PDT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
   Subject: History of the Earth (4.5 billion years). Part 3a.
     This is a contiuation of a discussion by a space intelligence on the history
   of the Earth.
     Man survived but they started quarreling again, they started fighting one
   another and reduced man to a little more than the animal state. He was
   nearly wiped out at  that time.
     The ninth colonization, there was another ice age that came and a new type
   of man arose.  They made a council of nations at the time and Atlantis and
   Lemuria fell into dispute over rights, prestige and national honor. IOW The
   continent of Atlantis and Lemuria started bickering over personal things.
   Their conflicts hastened the natural cataclysms that marked the end of
   another age.  They started fighting and their war kind of triggered off the
   natural upheavals.  The great quaking of Earth destroyed most traces of
   Lemuria and caused the continent of Atlantis to sink into the sea of
   oblivion.  So Atlanatis and Lemuria sunk.

So, John, where does Athens fit in?  Plato, the earliest source of
stories about Atlantis, tells us that there was a great war between
Athens and Atlantis just before the sinking of Atlantis.  What do your
space intelligences say about that?
--
-30-
Bob Ingria
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
Subject: Re: George Adamski Anecdote (humorous)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Ha ha, George is a Goof
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <stone.720110526@cwis>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 16:11:39 GMT
Lines: 38

In article <stone.720110526@cwis> [e-mail] (Travis Stone) writes:
>
>
>I was idly leafing through an old book yclept
>"Flying Saucers---Here and Now!" by Frank Edwards
>(Bantam Books, copyright 1967) and I came across
>a rather tongue-in-cheek section on the late scamster,
>"Professor" George Adamski that I thought most of you
>would get a bang out of:
>
>"...Persons who tell such stories are known in the UFO
>business as 'contactees.'
>
>  The first and foremost among them was a fellow named
>George Adamski...

[Ineresting story deleted to preserver bw.]

>
>T.R. Stone
>University of Nebraska-Omaha
>The home of Dr. Jack Kasher (the physicist who was on "Sightings"),
>a damned nice man and excellent E&M instructor...


Thanx for that story. Its a classic that all UFO researchers should know.
The Adamskiites and their kind have done more to hurt UFO research than
even the lack of evidence. Take a look people. This is why UFO research is
shunned today. Many things, such as the Adamski scharade, have faded in
the memories of UFO researchers today. We are getting somewhat of a fresh
start. Lets not blow it! Many are doing their best to, though. Many in
this newsgroup.

--

                Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Abductions.
               812-442-5354 or e-mail me at [e-mail]
               All information will be strictly confidential.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!sgi!wdl1!spl1.spl.loral.com!rkr
From: [e-mail] (Robert K. Rouse)
Subject: UFO's on 810 AM at 11:00 10/27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: UFO
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 17:47:04 GMT
Lines: 10

  There will a guest to talk about UFOs
  on KGO radio 810 AM at 11:00 on 10/27.

   I don't know the name of the guest and
   i wish i could have given more adavnced
   notice.




Xref: icaen alt.paranormal:5921 alt.alien.visitors:10539
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Greg Frisinger)
Subject: Re: Jeane Dixon Predicts Bush Victory
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: re-dixon predicts Bush winner
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Greg Frisinger)
Organization: nasa-jsc
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 17:44:44 GMT
Lines: 4

Hey you all.  We folk in Texas Ain't so stupid to vote in Ross.
What makes you think something like would happen.


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!ihz.compuserve.com!jtr.inhouse.compuserve.com!j.rohde
From: [e-mail] (Joe Rohde)
Subject: Re: JOHN WINSTON.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News)
Organization: None here
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 20:03:45 GMT
Lines: 8

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>    Telepathic cmmunication with Bigfoot?  Get a life!  Has he ever produced
>

He was watching six million dollar man reruns.  Thats all.

Joe
Xref: icaen junk:44856 misc.misc:8793 talk.politics.misc:104745 alt.alien.visitors:10541 alt.society.futures:496 alt.fan.howard-stern:2709 alt.fan.frank-zappa:2285
Newsgroups: junk,misc.misc,talk.politics.misc,alt.alien.visitors,alt.society.futures,alt.fan.howard-stern,alt.fan.frank-zappa
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From: [e-mail] (Phydeaux)
Subject: Participate in a U.S.Presidential STRAW POLL!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: monkey turkey donkey house-key ;-)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Phydeaux)
Organization: E 4th St Home For The Overeducated Underemployed - Chicago Div.
Date: 27 Oct 92 23:05:08 GMT
Lines: 44

Announcing a Usenet-wide   United  States  Presidential   straw  poll!
Anyone  who  reads  this  message is eligible   to cast  his  vote for
President of the United States in this poll.   You do *not* need to be
a citizen of the U.S.  to participate!

To cast your ballot, send mail to  [e-mail] with the word 'vote'
and the name  of the candidate  you  wish  to vote for in  the subject
line.  Do *not* include any other  text in your message.

Here is an example of what your ballot  might look like:

             To: [e-mail]
             Subject: Vote Jerry Garcia

The poll will be open from now through 12:00noon Pacific Daylight Time
on October 30, 1992.

Rules:
- Only  one ballot per  person will be  counted. (The last to arrive).
- Ballots  without the word 'vote' in the subject  line  will  NOT  be
  counted.
- Your ballot  *must* have the name of the candidate you wish to  vote
  for somewhere in the *subject* line.

As a reminder, the following are the major candidates who are running.
Pick one of them, or one of your own!

        Party         Candidate
        -----------  ---------
        Republican:  Bush
        Democrat:    Clinton
        Libertarian: Marrou
        Independent: Perot
                Other:       <your choice>

Please note that the results will be disclosed ONLY  as a final tally,
and will not be displayed by voter.

Remember, voting will  end on October 30,  1992.  The results will  be
posted shortly thereafter.
                Happy voting,
                        reb


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
Subject: Abduction research.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 21:50:08 GMT
Lines: 6


--

                Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Abductions.
        812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at [e-mail]
               All information will be strictly confidential.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!mporter
From: [e-mail] (Mitchell Porter)
Subject: Info for the FAQ: UFO LIBRARY from fido.ufo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 05:35:54 GMT
Lines: 49

Bravo on the FAQ! An excellent compilation. However, there *is* another
UFO newsgroup, at least here at Nyx BBS - but I suspect what is happening
is that FidoNet echoes are being groped into a newsgroup format. Anyhow,
what follows is from fido.ufo about a week or two ago.

Path: mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!scicom!nemsis!f17.n15.z1.NEMSIS!Ken.Willoughby
From: [e-mail] (Ken Willoughby)
Newsgroups: fido.ufo
Subject: UFO LIBRARY
Message-ID: <12364.2AD9C93D@nemsis>
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:37:24 GMT
Sender: ufgate@nemsis (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:15/17 - The Swap Meet, Truth or Consequences NM
Lines: 32

The  beginners  to  UFO studies keep asking the same kind of
questions of the old time investigators. For this reason,  I
have kept this UFO LIBRARY of files to answer these beginner
questions.   I  try  to  keep  the  library  fairly current.
Regarding the UFO LIBRARY that I mentioned, it  is  made  of
over  500  files  in  ZIP  format  on 6 disks [3.5 inch both
DOUBLE DENSITY or  HIGH DENSITY]. From disk #1 to  disk  #5,
the  filenames  are  in  alphabetical  order.   To  find  an
interesting file to read, I use  the  file  UFOFILES.ZIP  on
disk #5 and file FILES.BBS on the UFO INFO disk as sort of a
directory.   Both  have  a  1  line  description of the file
contents.  The files are also grouped into broad  categories
which  helps locating files of a common subject. I hope this
UFO LIBRARY helps you and your friends unravel this  complex
UFO  mystery.   I  feel  that  even  if only 50% of this UFO
information is accurate, it leaves a disturbing  picture  of
our  possibilities.   My  computer also has a 5.25 inch disk
and I would need 15 disks DD  or  6  disks  HD  for  updated
info.   When  completely  unZIPed, the files take up over 13
megabytes of memory.  I will copy this UFO  LIBRARY  on  the
disks that ANYONE SENDS me. Send disks to:
KEN WILLOUGHBY
BOX 317
FAIRACRES, NEW MEXICO 88033.
    Any donations will help pay postage and mailers.

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: The Swap Meet--T or C, NM [phone] (1:15/17)
--
Ken Willoughby - via Swashnet node 23:303/1
UUCP: ...!scicom!nemsis!1!15!17!Ken.Willoughby
INTERNET: Ken [e-mail]


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445
From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 09:29:51 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Lines: 39

Sea Wasp writes:
        (Afterimages as a good explanation for seeing "auras")

>>        That's fine.  I can accept that as a plausible and probable answer.
>>My only question--how could I extend the aura from my fingertips while
>>looking at them in the dark.  This would also be done an hour after being
in
>>the dark so that there weren't any "spots" from the light.  Just curious
and
>>thanks for an explanation. :) Colleen
>
>        How dark was it? If it was COMPLETELY dark -- that is, you couldn't
>see ANYTHING at all, not a window and not even the vague outline of your
>hands -- then afterimages cannot be the explanation.
>
>       However, if you could see your hands even faintly against the
>ceiling or whatever -- even as just dark outlines -- then you could still
>have afterimages. To be exact, an afterimage against a neutral colored
>background will tend to be the INVERSE of the color of the object; so
>if your hands appeared to be dark outlines against a lighter ceiling,
>the afterimage "aura" would appear as a lighter "glow" around the hands.
>And since your eyes get more sensitive the longer you stay in the dark,
ta>he "aura" would appear to both brighten (just as a more sensitive TV
>camera "burns" more easily) and get larger, as smaller differences in
>brightness became more perceptible, and the slight movement of your
>hands and eyeballs caused darkening and lightening of small parts of
>                                 Sea Wasp
       Well, I can accept that.  If you run for spokesman for Mars I might
just vote for you.  I beleive your explanation is the most probable I've seen
yet and even though it would be nice to believe we can do all sorts of things
that we aren't yet sure of, I also am skeptical enough to need proof.  The
only thing (and don't bother to answer since I will assume it might be error
on my part) is that I only extended the light at my fingertips.  Now what do
you think aliens would do if they could see our auras?  Probably sell tickets
to the light show. :)
Colleen
--
It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
The Crimson Bunion
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445
From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Subject: Re: Perot the alien (was...I know..)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 09:37:11 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Lines: 15

        Hey guys, if you don't like shoot him.  Americans have done it
before.  Or less violent--move to beautiful soon not be a country Canada.
Instead of spending money going to Paris you can see French culture in Quebec
and those miniature replicas of Texans--Albertans.  Not to mention the all
beautiful, smaller cleaner but just as pretty city of Vancouver much like San
Francisco but no fault.  Why, you ask, is this on alt. alien?  Because aliens
have been tinkering with Canada and screwing up the referendum vote.  But I
can't figure if one side or the other was alien.  I believe they generated
dissent on all sides, with massive miscommunication so that we cannot unite
and put more money and energy into searching the stars.  Remember the tower
of Babel?  I'm sure many of you think I have said more than enough.
Colleen
--
It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
The Crimson Bunion
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: JOHN WINSTON.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 05:58:30 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Earthians: Well the very idea of that mear mortal having the
audacity to question my veracity with such tenacity.  Such is life.
Remember tonight, wednesday KOR, Mars, be there.
John Winston
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12388 alt.alien.visitors:10547
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 06:05:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Folk: I just got back from the East West Book Store, in Menlo
Park, Calif. and found a book that tells about the Pyramids of Shensi
in China. If I get some time maybe I'll stop the present discussion
of the Skeptic's UFO for a while and discuss the pyramids.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12389 alt.alien.visitors:10548 alt.religion.kibology:4330
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 06:08:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Big Foot Watchers: It's wednesday and all quite on the western
front. No time for posting now.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: AURAS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 06:11:40 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Aura Watchers: I just got news that Guy Coggins will be in a psychic
fair in San Jose, Calif. in November of this year. I'll try to get the
particulars later.
John Winston
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 06:22:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Aura Onlookers: Colleen is really telling it like it is. All I
have to say is Amen Brother Ben, Shot a Goose and Hit a Hen.
John Winston
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors.sewage.garbage.bullshit.crackpots.fantas
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 06:28:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Earth Inhabitants: Boy I sure hope the people from space are
not monitoring these conversations. If they do come down it's going to
be like the Long Ranger said to Tonto as 10,000 Indians came over the
hill, "Well old friend, it looks like this is the end." Then Tonto
said, "Speak for yourself, white man."
John Winton.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Behold a Pale Horse
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 06:34:42 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: alt
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Pale Horse Riders: I was loaned the book and I refuse to talk
about the book because if you do you may be kicked off the net and
kicked off of anything else that you can be kicked off of.
John Winston
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Behold a Pale Horse
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 06:42:57 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: alt
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Pale Faces: Mr. Cooper is well known among Conspiracy People and it
is considered the in thing to bash him and his information by people
who don't believe like his does.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!yktnews!admin!watson!laettner.raleigh.ibm.com!pjweaver
From: [e-mail] (Paul Weaver)
Subject: Dateline NBC & UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Paul Weaver  / 3-9097 (PJWEAVER@RALVM29) D30A/061)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 14:32:43 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
Lines: 17

Did anyone else see Dateline NBC last night (10/28/92)? There was a story on
computer hackers near the end of the show, and they showed how these guys get
into the computers of the phone companies, banks, and the government. In one
brief glimpse, there was a shot of a computer screen after they had logged into
Wright Patterson AFB, and the subject on the screen said something to the effect
of "Catalogue of UFO parts list"!!

Did anyone else catch this? They did not talk about UFOs on the show as it wasn't
the subject of the report, so you would have had to have seen the actual computer
screen.
--

===============================================================================
Paul J. Weaver                 | "It is well that war is so terrible, or men
[e-mail]  |  should grow too fond of it"
-------------------------------|       General R. E. Lee
I speak only for myself        |       Battle of Fredricksburg, VA  Dec. 1862
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: October 28th
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Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 15:13:39 GMT


Well it is October 28th. Early in the morning for me but late in the afternoon
across the pond in Europe.

Nothing has happend.  Ho Hum.  No alien invasion. No dictatorial takeover by
President Bush and alas and alak no Rapture.  For all of you folks out there
that have been waiting for today:  "How does it feel to be made a fool of?"

Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids

--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Travis Stone)
Subject: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <stone.720282282@cwis>
Keywords: Don't Seem Likely
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 14:24:42 GMT
Lines: 40



I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
up.  "Could it be done?" I asked; his reply was that, to knock
out a running ignition system (spark plugs and whatnot) you
would need a magnetic field of such enormous strength that it
should actually crumple the metal body of the car to a noticeable
degree---"assuming," said he, "that it's being done with ordinary
magnetic fields like we can produce here, and not some---well,
we'll call it 'supernatural force'---that we don't know about."

The way he explained it, it seems impossible for a UFO to shut
down a running motor simply through E&M effects without turning
the car into a modern-art wadded-up wreck---yet many sane and
reliable motorists have reported just such a thing happening
(the stopping, not the wadding).  To my way of thinking, this
REALLY puts an odd spin on the UFO phenomenon, because I always
assumed that they were objects which operated by recognizable
and familiar physical laws through esoteric applications of
same.

As a disclaimer on the behalf of my friend, I must state that
neither he nor I claim to be E&M experts, or automotive engineers;
by virtue of his extensive background in electronics I look
upon him as a reliable---please note---SOURCE OF OPINION on
electrical matters who is most likely more conversant and
knowledgable in these matters than the bulk majority of us who
read and post to this group, and I thought it would be of some
technical interest for the alt.alien.visitors "gang" to hear
the thoughts of such a person upon this puzzling aspect of
UFO behavior.

Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Where the quest for Truth (and Tuition Hikes) Never Ends...
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: Joe Carlson <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 23:20:51 EST
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 8

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says:

>Dear Hairy Lovers:
>I can't say that I have had a long enough relationship with a Big Foot
>to get to know her will enough to propose marriage.
>John Winston. I can honestly say I've never met a Big Foot I didn't like.

Oh comon' John....everyone's just dyin' to know...is she good in bed?
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: Joe Carlson <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 22:53:17 EST
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 8

Udeet udeet udeeet udah, Dat's all folks!


WOo hoo wooo wOO hOO!


He's looney tuney stuck in the head...please pass the ketchup....La la la la la
!
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: Joe Carlson <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 23:19:16 EST
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says:

>Dear Earth People: I would like to remind all OOBE train riders
>that for those in Europe although it is Tuesday here in sunny Calif.
>(Standard Pacific Time) it is Wednesday GMT. Tonight we take off for
>KOR Mars. Our flight attendants will be from the Ashtar Command and they
>are all good guys. Paul Milsom of Europe is organizing another OOBE
>train for Europe. He is looking for a few good men (and women). They
>need a leader who is adept in astral projection like our person we
>call E. of Hawaii. See you in your dreams.
>John Winston.

I honestly think you should be a Guest on David Letterman's Late Nite...
...He loves getting good laffs!
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: John Winston Speaks!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: Joe Carlson <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 23:03:26 EST
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 10

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (KYLE CASSIDY) says:

>>*of* *fiction*.  Kind of throws some doubt on their veracity, huh?

>oh but it's true, i have gobs of invisible fish right here in my office. i'
>ve got invisible rats and mice too. anybody like to buy any?

And if you've already got invisible rats and mice, I have a couple of
great invisible cats, or invisible mouse traps...for the right price.
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: Joe Carlson <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 23:09:46 EST
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 26

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says:

>Subject: The Red Head.
>  Recently there has been a baby girl born that was talking before she was
>completely came out of the womb. She opened he eyes wide, looked at the doc
>and whined, Ricky. I wanna be in the show!  Everyone let out a gasp and
>gawked at the tiny newborn.
>  Before we could say anything, she yelled, "What are you people staring at?
>It's just me, Lucy."
>     The stunned silence in the delivery room was soon replaced by laughter as
>the baby began telling jokes and squirming around comically.
>  In the confusion, the baby's mon Cynthia, passed out from shock.
>  As we struggled to revive her, the baby became upset at no longer being the
>center of attention and began crying. She went Waaaah! Just like Lucy used
>to do.  The mother and father live in an apartment on the outskirts of
>Wolverhampton, England. James ,31, says his crazy redheaded daughter is
>always happy to clown around for the adoring fans who crowd her small
>bedroom.
>  In the most spectacular example of reincarnation of recent times, a baby
>emerged from her mothr's womb talking and announced to stunned doctors that
>she was Lucille Ball back form the dead.
>Information Source. Januar5y 23, 1990-Sun-page 29.
>John Winston

Oh boy.....someone left the rubber room cell open again...DUhhhheeeee!

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From: [e-mail] (Joe Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: bigfoot spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Oct 92 03:58:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 4

No, it's not harry and the Hendersons...it's Harry's brother GEORGE!


Dat daeeee wingggggggggdinnngggggggggggggoooo!
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Oct 92 04:06:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (4U2NV) says:

>Hmm, I was told this by a friend.  Can anyone add any truth to this??

>It appears that he was watching a latenight news channel (he forgets which
>one).He heard something about a Russian spacecraft (to Mars??) getting blown
>away
>by a UFO (captured on film, seconds before the craft lost power).  Again, can
>anyone add anything to this??

>Thanks in advance.
>--BUD

Ask Mr. Winston....he probably helped fire the laser and then him and his ufo
buddies drank some Saturn beer and played some Mars cards.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors.sewage.garbage.bullshit.crackpots.fantas
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Topics submitted
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 15:28:51 GMT
Lines: 49



[e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)(Gregg) writes:
(No flame intended, Gregg, I just needed a starter!)

      >However, all are welcome to post articles from anywhere, whether keyed
    >or copied, on the following subjects:

        >UFOs
        >Crop Circles
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
        >Abductions^
        >SETI

- What on earth have crop circles got do with ETs or UFOs? I think that
invisible fish or bigfoot are more pertinent... after all, I'm sure most of
the ETs who come here (apparently thousands per year) are invisible to us,
and in his book Alien Liaison, Timothy good reports (pp 47>) of bigfoot
sightings in connection with ETs. (If only half of this book is true, it's
still sensational!) And does anybody out there really believe there's any
hope at all for SETI? (Or is it just a cover for something else?)

What about mutilation reports? They certainly seem relevant. Are they allowed
to be posted? What about people who claim to have had contact with ETs? What
about outrageous stories of ET contact? What about just a teeny weeny bit
unusual stories about ET contact? Who will judge them? What about cloning and
clones? Rejected? Some people apparently regard ETs to be angels. What about
stories about angels? Do ETs have auras? This is a relevant question.
Remember how Don Juan (Carlos Castaneda) said he could tell that some
"people" were "allies" because they didn't have auras? Maybe allies are ETs?

I have refrained from quoting from A Course In Miracles for weeks, not only
because we've had a spate of exams (nobody failed!), but also because I
thought that some people regarded it as "New Age" (a phrase I don't fully
understand anyway). But now I hear that many abductees begin to have "New
Age" ideas when they return. Doesn't this make some of these ideas relevant,
or at least a discussion of what New Age is, and why these people begin to
think in this way?

And what about humour? Would it be banned? I admit I don't like the snide
comments, but some of the quips are immortal. Do we have so many professors
on the net that it has to be boring and aloof in order to be accepted?

I enjoy it all, except the abuse, and hope it continues.

                                            Professor Paul

Paul Milsom
[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: A change in thinking
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 91
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
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Reply-To: in: :"[e-mail]
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 16:06:40 GMT
Lines: 91

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kal) writes:
> I agree with what you say about channelers, in that some may be deluding
> themselves into thinking that they are hearing the voices of other beings.
> I am convinced, also, that there are many charlatans who are intentionally
> deceptive and in it for the money.
>
    You're probably right about this, and I find it reprehensible.

> I'll try to dig up some references, but you are wrong if you imply that
> the channeling and new-age stuff is more popular now than it was. The
> spiritualist movement in the 30's and 40's was HUGE. Much more popular
> than anything you see now.

Did I say there was an increase in popularity from the 30's/40's?  I don't
think I did.  I am aware of the spiritualist movement.  I was comparing the
level of interest in 1992 to the amount of interest in, say, 1958.  OK?
I don't need references, thanks.


>
> "Thought can influence reality." hm. very interesting statement. How? My
> thoughts can certainly influence *my* reality, as can a joint or a couple
> of Long Island Iced Teas. But my thoughts cannot influence "esternal"
> reality. When you show me somebody whose thoughts can influence *my* reality,
> I'll believe (I know, I know, my belief does not mean much to you, etc...)
> I will say to you that your thoughts *cannot* influence my reality, and
> cannot influence the outside world, in any way shape or form, without
> physical action on your part. It's really simple. You're reading this on
> a computer. With your thoughts, influence one electron in the machine
> to go the wrong way and crash the puter.

    I knew I was going to hear about that one.  I should have explained it
better, but I was in a hurry.  It takes a LOT of people thinking the same thing
pretty much in the same time period to influence reality.  One person probably
can't unless their pretty extraordinary, which I do not claim to be.  There was
a recent newspaper article I read about how one medical study in the 50's said
"element x is bad for you," and over the course of twenty years lots more
studies "proved" that it was.  Then in the 70's one medical study says "element
x is really good for you"  and over the ensuing years, more and more studies
are verfying that position.  The article pointed out that the presence of
a single obscure article positing yea or nay was sufficient to influence the
reality of thousands of people, many  of whom may have never read the article,
or heard of element x.  That's the sort of thing I'm talking about, not
wiggling my nose and crashing your computer.

> I know there is more to new age than channeling, but I am seeing real *people*
> rest their entire *lives* on *facts* that some other person is telling them
> in a strange voice.

Whether or not it's said in a "strange voice," millions of people every day
rest their entire lives on the facts that some other person tells them.  Some
of these other people are:  the President of the U.S., the Pope, various world
religious leaders, various world political leaders, husbands/wives/parents,
school teachers, news anchors, etc. etc.  Many, many people are basically
followers, and they're going to follow whoever they feel like following.
No amount of debunking from you or me is going to change that fact.
Face it.  Sad, but true.

>Also, there is no "global" phenomenum here, new-age
> believers are a very minute fraction of the world's population. very very
> VERY minute, compared to the untold millions of moslems and hindus and
> christians and shintus and so on. New Age "religion" is an odd, self-
> contradictory mixture of beliefs, both old and new (i.e. "neo-pagan")
> that says essentially, believe whatever you want, believe whatever feels
> good to you. It is, as you so well put it, the result of people searching
> for a new paradigm. That's fine. The old religions have certainly been very
> disappointing in many ways, and modern society is very alienating.
>

Again, did I say there were vast numbers of new-agers?  I don't think so.  I
may have inadvertantly implied that, but I am fully aware that they constitute
a tiny fraction of the whole.  I don't think I said it was global, either,
though the presence of only one "new-ager" in every country in the world would
make it a global phenomenon.  I did say that I feel we need to become aware
that humanity is a global phenomenon.  I don't think my beliefs are
contradictory, though they are certainly a synthesis of old and new, as you
point out.  I feel that the synthesis tries to eliminate the contradiction.
The primary tenet of neo-paganism is "'an it harm none, do as you will"  This
does not mean I believe that whatever feels good is ok.  Someone might well
think it feels good to kill someone.  That is certainly NOT ok.  One has to
be very conscious of balance when synthesizing a belief system.  That is where
our current system fails miserably.  I think we should take this to e-mail,
since it doesn't really belong here.

Kellie M-S
internet::[e-mail]
> ===============================================================================
> Kal    [e-mail]             My opinions are almost, but not quite,
>                                      entirely unlike those of my employer.
> ===============================================================================
>
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From: [e-mail] (Anthony Arviola)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Date: 28 Oct 92 12:19:08
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <stone.720282282@cwis>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zip.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of Wed, 28 Oct 1992 14:24:42 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: fac3b5f9c179a9747f8c336b7f2b1b06

In article <stone.720282282@cwis> [e-mail] (Travis Stone) writes:
   I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
   a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
   fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
   departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
   up.  "Could it be done?" I asked; his reply was that, to knock
   out a running ignition system (spark plugs and whatnot) you
   would need a magnetic field of such enormous strength that it
   should actually crumple the metal body of the car to a noticeable
   degree---"assuming," said he, "that it's being done with ordinary
   magnetic fields like we can produce here, and not some---well,
   we'll call it 'supernatural force'---that we don't know about."

   The way he explained it, it seems impossible for a UFO to shut
   down a running motor simply through E&M effects without turning
   the car into a modern-art wadded-up wreck---yet many sane and
   ...
   Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?

   T.R. Stone
   University of Nebraska-Omaha
   Where the quest for Truth (and Tuition Hikes) Never Ends...

Consider the radar arrays on navy ship have EM pulses strong enough to
fry you and your eggs in one sweep.  Yet, none of the ship's metal crumples.

Consider that an EM pulse can destroy many chips and their memory.

Consider that a Coke can can be crushed by a magnetic field...if it has
the right amount of current running through it.

Conclusion.  There is not enough information to conclude that a car has
to be crushed in order to have it cut off.  Chances are that it could be
cut off as a previous post has given in example.

Good day,
Tony
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Don't Seem Likely
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
References:  <stone.720282282@cwis>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 16:53:06 GMT
Lines: 48

Travis[you write];

>I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
>a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
>fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
>departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
>up.  "Could it be done?" I asked; his reply was that, to knock
>out a running ignition system (spark plugs and whatnot) you
>would need a magnetic field of such enormous strength that it
>should actually crumple the metal body of the car to a noticeable
>degree---"assuming," said he, "that it's being done with ordinary
>magnetic fields like we can produce here, and not some---well,
>we'll call it 'supernatural force'---that we don't know about."


This is totally untrue.......When I was in highschool, my friends & I were
into CB radios. One of my friends had a portable 1000w bi-linear amplifier
&
on occasion when we keyed up the mike at a stop sign/light we could
shutdown some of the newer model cars. The ones with electronic ignition &
or computers on board. It didn't work all the time, but often enough to get
a laugh out of it.

 Why do you think the FCC has regulations on how much power you can use? If
you have too much it interferes with everything, hospitals monitors,
pacemakers, etc.

I think that it wouldn't take anything that special to knock out an
electrical system of any type, especially with no shielding. The paralysis
of the bodies
of abductees I think is another method of electrical overload to the
nervous system. It might be some form of condtioned power tuned to our
internal electrical system. I.E. A perfect TAZER GUN.

Think about it.

Rod


--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$




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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abduction research.
From: [e-mail] (Jim Bowery)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 07:07:36 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA
Lines: 16

[e-mail] (<[e-mail]>) writes:

>
> --
>
>                 Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Abductions.
>         812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at [e-mail]
>                All information will be strictly confidential.


Please post a LOT more information about yourself.

--
INTERNET:  [e-mail] (Jim Bowery)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jim
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA [phone]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Max Elliot)
Subject: Re: AURAS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 17:10:27 GMT
Lines: 46

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail]:
> Dear Aura Watchers:
> I have been asked to explain fully how the aura camera that Guy Coggins
> has actually works.  I never did ask him exactly how his camera worked
  ...
> dyne) a freg. with the freq. of the aura to produce a freg. that our
> eyes can pick up. This is done by putting the person you want to look
> at in a place where they can put their hands across a static generator
> that will charge them up to a high voltage. This is done by putting
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  Charge them up?! Well now, what you are taking a picture of is not
  an *aura* but STATIC DISCHARGE!

  ...
> their hands, each on a metal plate on the arms of the chair they are
> sitting on. Next we have a device that looks like a projector that
> it up in the different colors that are in the aura.
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  Colors? I thought you just insisted that the aura is radiation in
  a band just outside the visible. How can we attribute *color* to
  frequencies in that range? They have no *color*.

>   A seperate method is used in conjunction with the computer so that
> you can see your own aura on a TV set in front of you.
>   I hope this helps.
> John Winston.

  Oh my god! This is the first really big, whopper of a stupid example
  of *scam* technology I've seen in this group. I just had to toast it.
  John, no offense, but if you *charge* someone up, you're more than just
  slightly distorting the fields around him/her. Besides, there are plenty
  of ways of detecting and, yes, even photographing radiation in wavelengths
  other than that of the visible spectrum. You can by film to take photos
  in both the infra-red and ultr-violet spectrum and use them in your 35mm
  camera, for crying out loud. That person and his *camera* are a real
  threat to the legitimacy of any of this. I hope you will find it within
  you to politely reject his assertions and claims. He's BOGUS.

  It is one thing to explore our spirituality and claim extraordinary
  discoveries. It is yet another to blatantly butt heads with common
  scientific principles and lose.

  Cheers!
-Max
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Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Sunday, 25 Oct 1992 00:51:26 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re:Questionaire...
Lines: 18

In the spirit of Crispin Glover,
I say, "these are STUPID questions."

Don't get upset.

I don't think there can be a *standardized* UFO abduction
report form. If you are researching the subject, then a set
of particualr questions can be included.

For instance, I would only be interested in the general
shape of the craft (was it round, or oblong...); color
of the lights; physique of visitor; nature of contact...

That is, these were the things I would want to know
if I wasn't already an alien myself!
====================================
Rob Walters - [e-mail]
"Re-elect Gary Stollman..."
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Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Sunday, 25 Oct 1992 00:58:50 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors.sewage.garbage.bullshit.crackpots.fantasy
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Lines: 9

Baaaaahh, what can you do?...

Maybe we're all crazy and only you are sane.
-------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[e-mail]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
!!!!! ROB WALTERS/ EDITOR, SPHERIC (Global Monthly For Humans) !!!!!!!!!!
!!!!! 695 PARK AVE., NEW YORK, NY 10021 ### [phone] ### !!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!! "HELP STAMP OUT AN END TO ISMISTIC ISMISM." -- HERBERT RONZONI !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Travis Stone)
Subject: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Message-ID: <stone.720296427@cwis>
Keywords: Hey, wouldn't....
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 18:20:27 GMT
Lines: 32



Rod B.:  You say "unshielded"; but wouldn't the metal
body of the car, and the engine block, and all the
wiring wrapped thereunto act as a pretty potent EM
shield?  Look at what a crummy chicken-wire "Faraday
Cage" does to a radio's ability to recieve a signal!...

And as for the Coke can: is it being crumpled by merely
being placed in a magnetic field w/o having wires
attached to it, or do we have it wrapped like a big
clunky solenoid?  If these situations are physically
equivalent, please point out how---my E&M isn't too
good...

And insofar as microwaves doing you a damage: mightn't
that have something to do with the characteristics of
the dielectrics which make up organic substances like
proteins, as well as the frequency of the EM radiation
involved?

I appreciate your technical input on this, Rod---
this is just the sort of scientific cross-fertilization
I was hoping for; and, by gum, you've brought up some
pretty points.

Technically speaking.

Thanks for the input (to all who reply)!

T.R. Stone
Blah-blah-blah, etc., etc.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Travis Stone)
Subject: Apology/Correction to "Shielding"
Message-ID: <stone.720297388@cwis>
Keywords: Oops! Sorry!
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 18:36:28 GMT
Lines: 19



To Rod Beckwith and everyone else who caught my blunder:
I accidentally imputed the observations concerning un-
shielded objects, Coke cans, and microwaves to Mr. Rod
Beckwith;  Mr. B. was not the source of the observations---
it was Anthony A. whose posted reply appears above my
original.

I wish to apologize for any confusion my carelessness in
citing others may have created, and wish to thank Anthony
for his technical objections.  Your patience (Rod, Anthony,
everyone else who tries to follow this thread) is greatly
appreciated.

Keep it coming, gang....

T.R. Stone
Etc., etc.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dateline NBC & UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Oct 92 19:08:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Brandeis University
Lines: 6

yes, I did see it!  I was as curious as you.  It said something about
parts list from UFO's.  We're on a BBS.  I'm sure some of you out there
know how to access this information.  Any takers?  I'm basically com-
puter illiterate, or I'd try it myself.

Barb
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Oct 92 19:12:48 GMT
References: <stone.720282282@cwis>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Brandeis University
Lines: 10

T.R. Stone talked about EM effects on cars, and how they'd have to be
crumpled up like tinfoil in order for this to occur.  How's this for a
scenario:  If the little grey guys are from another dimension, wouldn't
it follow that they would adhere to the physical laws from their dimen-
sion?  It's entirely possible that there exists somewhere a place where
right-angle turns in mid-flight, coming to a dead stop from several
thousand miles an hour, and EM effects without accompanying effects are
possible.  T.R., any response?

Barb
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Oct 92 19:21:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Brandeis University
Lines: 13

At the MUFON New Hampshire conference in September, this subject was dis-
cussed by Dr. Steven Greer, I believe.  It was Phobos II, and it was ta-
ken out of service by some unknown source, but just before it went, it
sent back a picture of a cylindrical object.  A press conference was
held in this country to discuss the entire incident, but it went virtually
unnoticed by the American Press (here's more fodder for the conspiracy
folk!)

Just in case anyone's wondering, I do know whereof I speak on the things
that I have been posting.  I'm a research assistant to Dr. John Mack, but
the opinions expressed on anything I may post here are strictly my own.

Barb
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 28th
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 12:11:15 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8

Ah!!!,  the great Lizzie feast.   This must be the time the Christians
reptilian god is showing up to harvest its crop and have that feast they
have been planing since Adam and Eve. It must be the first feast.  Then
the next will be all those newagers who believe in the three mass ascensions.

Anyone who believes they can get to heaven without handling their own
sh*t,  deserves to be eaten by a bunch of unevolved reptiles.
DS
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From: [e-mail] (AMANDA EDWARDS)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: TEST
Date: 28 Oct 1992 21:13:40 GMT
Organization: APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY
Lines: 3
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: alf.appstate.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

HI


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Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 10:49:57 EST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Wapsher
Lines: 4

Hey!  Did I sleep through the Rapture or has God decided that there aren't
ANY good christians on the planet?  Damn, and I was hoping that in this
conservative town, the disappearance of a large number of its natives
would cure the growing traffic and parking problem...  Oh well...
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: Re: UFO GIFs & JPGs
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 92 23:24:53 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: ufo pictures
Lines: 34

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert K. Rouse) writes:



>  Where can i find more UFO GIF's or JPG's?

>  Also, I encourage users to post UFO pictures in this group.

>--
>==========================================================================
>            Robert K. Rouse        [e-mail]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "VOTE! - use it or lose it"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi,
all the UFO pics I have posted are available via FTP in:

130.231.240.17  in  pub/ufo_and_space_pics

This site is called phoenix.oulu.fi and is located in finland.

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann, c/o Ingenierbuero Gatz & Hartmann.
email to:  [e-mail]


--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12404 alt.alien.visitors:10581 sci.skeptic:33083
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: John_-_Winston's World (was: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 21:59:53 GMT
Lines: 40

In article <[e-mail]> Joe Carlson <[e-mail]> writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says:
>
>>Dear Earth People: I would like to remind all OOBE train riders
>>that for those in Europe although it is Tuesday here in sunny Calif.
>>(Standard Pacific Time) it is Wednesday GMT. Tonight we take off for
>>KOR Mars. Our flight attendants will be from the Ashtar Command and they
>>are all good guys. Paul Milsom of Europe is organizing another OOBE
>>train for Europe. He is looking for a few good men (and women). They
>>need a leader who is adept in astral projection like our person we
>>call E. of Hawaii. See you in your dreams.
>>John Winston.
>
>I honestly think you should be a Guest on David Letterman's Late Nite...
>...He loves getting good laffs!

John_-_Winston doesn't need this. He has his own "Community Access"
cable TV show in San Jose, called "Science Faction." In fact, I was
privileged to be a guest on that show once; this was before John became
such a celebrity on Usenet. Believe it or not, he mostly just stuck
to the facts on TV, and didn't go off on any astral voyaging. I didn't
even realize what an *interesting* guy he is until he started posting
his extraordinary findings here.

Those who are connected to San Jose's cable TV system can watch
"Science Faction" on Community Access, channel 2B, I believe
it's Tuesdays at 5:30 PM.


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
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Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 17:29:11 EST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dateline NBC & UFOs
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 39

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Paul Weaver) says:
>
>Did anyone else see Dateline NBC last night (10/28/92)? There was a story on
>computer hackers near the end of the show, and they showed how these guys get
>into the computers of the phone companies, banks, and the government. In one
>brief glimpse, there was a shot of a computer screen after they had logged
>into
>Wright Patterson AFB, and the subject on the screen said something to the     t
>effec
>of "Catalogue of UFO parts list"!!
>
>Did anyone else catch this? They did not talk about UFOs on the show as it
>wasn't
>the subject of the report, so you would have had to have seen the actual
>computer
>screen.

I not only saw this, I recorded this...  However, my interpretation differs
from yours.  What they were showing was a rear view of a cracker supposedly
doing his dirty deed.  What it looked like to me was some little twerp
scrolling through a text file on a laptop.  If I were going to be filmed
by NBC, I'd make the printout look pretty interesting myself...  Perhaps
he used the contents of the warehouse we all contributed to last year
as the basis of his text file...  Pretty lame reportage if you ask
me that really glorified what is basically just a bunch of dirty
tricks that require about the same level of "genius" as breaking
into a car...

>--
>
>==============================================================================
>=
>Paul J. Weaver                 | "It is well that war is so terrible, or men
>[e-mail]  |  should grow too fond of it"
>-------------------------------|       General R. E. Lee
>I speak only for myself        |       Battle of Fredricksburg, VA  Dec. 1862

Scott
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
References: <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net Noise owner)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1992 00:40:48 GMT
Lines: 26

[e-mail] writes:

>At the MUFON New Hampshire conference in September, this subject was dis-
>cussed by Dr. Steven Greer, I believe.  It was Phobos II, and it was ta-
>ken out of service by some unknown source, but just before it went, it
>sent back a picture of a cylindrical object.  A press conference was
>held in this country to discuss the entire incident, but it went virtually
>unnoticed by the American Press (here's more fodder for the conspiracy
>folk!)

First of all, to say that it was "taken out of service by some unkown source"
may be true, but it's very misleading.  Phobos did far better than the average
Soviet probe to Mars.  The Soviets had an impresssive history of missing the
planet entirely, crashing landers or loosing communication with probes because
of hardware/software errors.  Soviet space vehicles are much more "fragile"
that western equipment. The reason Phobos 2 died was that it failed to point
it's antenna back to Earth after a photo session.  Nothing bizzare about that,
it was just bad engineering.

The reason the conference went unnoticed in the press was because there was
nothing to say.

--
Josh Hopkins                                          [e-mail]

"We can lick gravity, but the paperwork's a bit tougher."  Wernher von Braun
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dateline NBC & UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Oct 92 20:07:12 EST
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Paul Weaver) writes:
> Did anyone else see Dateline NBC last night (10/28/92)? There was a story on
> computer hackers near the end of the show, and they showed how these guys get
> into the computers of the phone companies, banks, and the government. In one
> brief glimpse, there was a shot of a computer screen after they had logged into
> Wright Patterson AFB, and the subject on the screen said something to the effect
> of "Catalogue of UFO parts list"!!
>
> Did anyone else catch this? They did not talk about UFOs on the show as it wasn't
> the subject of the report, so you would have had to have seen the actual computer
> screen.
> --

Yeah! I saw that too. They were some output from a defense computer and
something about 'UFO Parts List' scrolled through the screen...

-Garrett

>
> ===============================================================================
> Paul J. Weaver                 | "It is well that war is so terrible, or men
> [e-mail]  |  should grow too fond of it"
> -------------------------------|       General R. E. Lee
> I speak only for myself        |       Battle of Fredricksburg, VA  Dec. 1862
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
Subject: ...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: abduction, UFO
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 21:10:03 GMT
Lines: 7



--

                Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Abductions.
        812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at [e-mail]
               All information will be strictly confidential.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12407 alt.alien.visitors:10586
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 18:22:35 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 44

Subject: The Pyramids of Shensi.
  Last night I went over to the East West Book Store and was looking around to
see if there was anything that I might like to read. Another person was also
looking beside me and I struck up a conversation with him. I had never met
him before but he turned out to be a person by the name of Donald John Long,
UFO Investigator, Media Director  of Northern Calif for a UFO Club.  I was
telling him about certain subjects trying to find out what is was that I was
supposed to tell him when the subject got to the pyramids in China and he
showed me a book that had information about that subject. So guess he showed
in this case.
  The name of the book is The Bridge to Infinity by Bruce L. Cathie. In this
book it has the following information starting on page 110; He has a
photograph of the large pyramid in Shensi. There are a total of 16 pyramids
in Shensi.  When he asked the chinese ambassador about it he was told that
they didn't have any pyramids in China. When he contacted the scientist they
said they had pyramids but they were just tombs of certain people and not
much was known about them.
  They did get the following account a person who saw the pyramids back in
1912. Now don't be discouraged if all of these stories don't agree. There
may be a little truth in each one. Fred Meyer Schroder and his partner Oscar
Maman were traders and in 1912 they were running carvans from the Great Wall
of China into the interior.  At one time Schroder, in the company of Bogdo,
or Holy One, was on a mission along the Chinese-Mongolian border, when the
garrulous old monk said to him, "We'll be passing near the pyramids".
Schroder. What pyramids?  Why, the great pyramids of Shensi. Haven't  I
mentioned them to you?"  S. Your mean burial mounds. B. Not burial mounds.
These are mountains as high as the sky. They are not ordinary  earthen
burial mounds, though emperors and empresses may be buried in them. S. How
many  are there? B. Seven S. Where are they? B. In Shensi Province, near our
road. I havenn't seen them, but I know that they lie near the old city of
Sian-Fu.
 Sian-Fu is ancient walled city, which existed long before the city of Peking,
and used to be the capital of China.
  After several days of hard riding  they eventually saw something looming
over the horizon that first appeared to be a mountain, until closer
scrutiney showed that the sides were regularly sloping, and its top was
flat.  Schroder was awed at the sight of the largest man-made object he had
ever seen.  It amazed him that men with the knowledge to construct an
ediface such as this, and the  ability to carry it out, had disappeared so
completely from the earth. As they moved closer they observbed seven flat
topped pyramids.
End Part 1.
John Winston. Now I know I said that the pyramid had a capstone on it in a
previous story but please be patient.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Subject: Re: Dateline NBC & UFOs CLUE #2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: UFO
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1992 02:44:44 GMT
Lines: 170

Okay everyone,

I think I might have a clue to this mystery. This was a post from
sci.space.news
dated 9/27/92.......you make the call. It looks like a real project to me.
I posted a question about this about the time I read it & got no response.
Well here it is in black & white. I contacted Ron Baalke from JPL & he
stated he can't remember where he got the information from, but thinks in
came from Aviation & Space Technology Magazine. If I have mis-qouted you
Ron, please correct me. Excessive question marks are mine. Look for the
second launch date in October 1992. Here is the info:



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     Here's the latest Space Calendar.  If you see any updates to the
calendar, then please let me know.  Note that launch dates are subject to
change.

                             =========================
                                  SPACE CALENDAR
                                September 27, 1992
                             =========================

* indicates change from last month's calendar

   October 1992
     ?? - Galaxy 7 Ariane Launch
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????
     ?? - UFO Atlas Launch
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????
     04 - 35th Anniversary, Sputnik Launch (1st Satellite ever)
     05 - Progress Launch (Soviet)
     09 - Galileo, Trajectory Correction Maneuver 15 (TCM-15)
     10 - Draconid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 197.0 degrees)
    *10 - Mars Observer, 1st Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-1)
     12 - SETI Scanning Begins
     12 - 500th Anniversary, Columbus Discovers America
    *12-15 - Galileo, Dual Drive Actuator Test #4 (DDA-4)
    *12 - DFS-3/Kopernikus Delta 2 Launch
     15 - STS-52, Columbia, Laser Geodynamics Satellite (LAGEOS-II)
     15 - Freja Long March Launch (Sweden/China)
     20 - AUSROC II Launch
     21 - Orionid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 208.4 degrees)

   November 1992
     ?? - Superbird A Ariane Launch
     ?? - Geotail, 2nd Moon Flyby
     03 - Southern Taurid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 220.7 degrees)
     05 - STS-53, Discovery, Department of Defense (DOD)
     07 - 25th Anniversary, Surveyor 6 Launch (Moon Soft Lander)
     13 - Northern Taurid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 230.7 degrees)
     13 - Galileo, Trajectory Correction Maneuver 16 (TCM-16)
     17 - Leonid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 235.7 degrees)

   December 1992
     ?? - Pioneer Venus Burnup
     ?? - Galaxy 4 Ariane Launch
     08 - Galileo, Earth Flyby
     08 - Asteroid 4179 Toutatis, Near Earth Flyby (.025 AU)
     10 - Lunar Eclipse
     14 - Geminid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 262.0 degrees)
     14 - 30th Anniversary, Mariner 2 Venus Flyby (1st Flyby of Another
Planet)
     19 - 20 years since man has been to the Moon (Apollo 17)
     22 - Ursid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 10:00 UT, Solar Longitude 258.7
deg.)
     25 - Isaac Newton's 350th birthday (or January 4)

   January 1993
     ?? - Eutelsat II F-5 Ariane Launch
     03-4 Quadrantid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 10:00 UT, Solar Lon 283.13
deg.)
     07 - 25th Anniversary, Surveyor 7 Launch (Moon Soft Lander)
     12 - STS-54, Endeavour, TDRS-F
    *12 - Mars Observer, High Gain Antenna Deployment
    *16 - Mars Observer, 2nd Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-2)

   February 1993
     ?? - Hispasat 2 Ariane Launch
     01 - 35th Anniversary, Explorer 1 Launch (1st U.S. Satellite)
     06 - Astro-D Launch (US/Japan)
     15 - Advanced Photovoltaic Electronics Experiment (APEX) Pegasus
Launch
    *16 - Mars Observer, 3rd Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-3)
     18 - Jules Verne's 165th Birthday
     18 - STS-55, Columbia, Spacelab Germany (SL-D2)
     19 - Copernicus' 520th Birthday

   March 1993
     ?? - SPOT-C Launch
     ?? - Radcal Scout Launch
     01 - Ulysses, 3rd Opposition
     11 - STS-56, Endeavour, Atmospheric Lab for Applications and Science
          (ATLAS-2)

   April 1993
     06 - 20th Anniversary, Pioneer 11 Launch (Jupiter & Saturn Flyby
Mission)
     22 - Lyrid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 02:00 UT, Solar Longitude 32.1
degrees)
     23 - Pi-Puppid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 33.3 degrees)
     28 - STS-57, Atlantis, European Retrievable Carrier (EURECA-1R)

   May 1993
     04 - Galileo Enters Asteroid Belt Again
     15 - Magellan, End of Mission?

   June 1993
     04 - Lunar Eclipse
     14 - Sakigake, 2nd Earth Flyby (Japan)
     22 - 15th Anniversary of Charon Discovery (Pluto's Moon) by Christy

   July 1993
     01 - STS-51, Discovery, Advanced Communications Technology
Satellite(ACTS)
     29 - NASA's 35th Birthday

   August 1993
     ?? - Seastar Pegasus Launch
     ?? - ISTP Wind Delta-2 Launch
     ?? - ETS-VI Launch
     ?? - GEOS-J Launch
     ?? - Landsat 6 Launch
     08 - 15th Anniversary, Pioneer Venus Orbitor 2 Launch
     12 - Perseid Meteor Shower (Max: 04:00 UT, S.L. 139.6 deg and 15:00
UT,
                                 S.L. 140.1 deg.)
    *13 - Mars Observer, 4th Trajectory Correction Manuever (TCM-4)
    *24 - Mars Observer, Mars Orbit Insertion
     25 - STS-58, Columbia, Spacelab Life Sciences (SLS-2)
     28 - Galileo, Asteroid Ida Flyby

   September 1993
     Nothing scheduled.

                                  #####
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         |
[e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Quiet people aren't
the
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | only ones who don't
say
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | much.




--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$




Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12408 alt.alien.visitors:10588 sci.skeptic:33122
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 21:15:20 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Star People: I meant to say mere mortal but actually we are all
mortals. Some people say we are all avatars but then that is a deep
subject. Gotta go hit the hay in a few hours. It's a long way to Mar
but then I'm flying first class.
John Winston.
From: [e-mail] (Keith Spears)
Sender: [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!uum1!kksys.com!tdkt!FredGate
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ALIEN Intelligence
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 07:41:00 -0600
Lines: 26

BI>        D'you suspect that some Aliens might have an intelligence
  >        that may be so alien that you could not compare ours to
  >        theirs?

BI>        Evolution/Creation so that a species may survive on a
  >        alien world (different radiation levels, chamical
  >        composition, gravity, light composition, and so on)
  >        might produce an obvious INTELLIGENCE, but one so
  >        strange, that there was little common ground beyond the
  >        most BASIC communication (Like "ouch!").

I've heard this idea presented before; however, the reference was not to
aliens, but squid.  Squid live in what is for us an incredibly alien
environment - while the potential for intelligence is there, chances are
we'll never find out, since the signals are so different.

I believe, as you suggest, that the case also holds true for actual
"aliens."  Unless they've developed on a world with similar attributes
(which, of course, may be the only possibility), we might not recognize
them even if they landed in the backyard, let alone establish
communication.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * The aliens are amongst us, and they are squid.


 * Origin: THE CITY LIGHTS <612-633-1366> <MULTINODE> <14.4> (1:282/108)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Jamie Paul CURMI)
Subject: HA: The Rapture
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: rapture, jesus
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 23:48:25 GMT
Lines: 18

According to the news this morning, Jesus is coming tomorrow morning (EST)
at 2am (+ or - 1 hour I suspect, depending on whether this was decided
before or after daylight savings ;-)

So if anyone really believes this, please forward all your worldly
belongings to me as you won't be needing them...and since I'm gonna be
stuck here for another 7 years, I could make good use of them.

\(^_^)/

PS. Is this the "October Surprise"?

Jamie

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------            Jamie P. Curmi  ([e-mail], [e-mail])                      Department of Computer Science,   Department of Mathematics
         The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    *** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! ***
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Don't Seem Likely
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
References:  <stone.720282282@cwis>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1992 11:10:52 GMT
Lines: 27


About 15 years ago I attended a lecture by Alan Watts who I think was a
physics lecturer at a university. He had done some work on magnetic fields
and car stops. He found that by putting a large alternating field around the
ignition coil he could get the engine to stall. The problem he had was the
one you highlighted. To generate a field of sufficent strength would mean that
the car would be stuck to the bottom of any possible 'UFO'.

A second method I have heard suggested is that if rather than a magnetic field
some form of ionisation exists that this would cause current to leak from the
ignition system. If 'UFO's ionise air this could account for reports of glowing
objects seen at night.

I am not a physicist or engineer, so I am just selling as bought.

FYI: Around 10 years ago the British UFO Research Association produced a
catalogue of over 400 cases involing vehicle interference. I believe that
the Center for UFO Studies has also recently produced a similar work.
(Address for both these organisations is in the FAQ)

Steve

--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Serena Gilbert,cs,x0364)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 28th
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Oct 92 22:45:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
Lines: 1
Nntp-Posting-Host: s14c18.exu.ericsson.se
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

Did I miss it?
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12411 alt.alien.visitors:10593 sci.skeptic:33147
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 92 05:46:22 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8

Dear Travel People:
I just got back from the OOBE train with an idea. It has been
suggested to be in the past that we add a new twist to the train
and that is time travel. Next week we will go back in time for
more than 5,000 (I'll get the exact number later) to visit the
pyramids of Shensi, China. One of these pyramids if about 1,000
feet tall. I'll be giving you the exact position of it later.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: AURAS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 92 05:51:59 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Aura Watchers:
It might be good to put our presidential candidates in front of an
aura TV system as they talked and then we could see if they were telling
the truth.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Oct 92 09:31:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Lines: 16

One question about this list. Why are so many different starfaring races
interested in what must be to them a primitive backwater planet. It seems
pretty arrogant for one to think that we, a race that has barely achieved
spaceflight to rank so high on the agendas of 6+ starfaring races.

Just wondering.



--
Patrick Chester            |----------------------------------------------------
[e-mail] |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
Politically Incorrect      |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Future Lunar Colonist      |"The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us
#^%$!! Militarist          |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
(Of the Sun Tzu mentality) |----------------------------------------------------
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Lady Rhavyn and the Federation
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 92 06:08:25 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear People interested in the Federation: The information that you
put in your posting this time interests me very much. Please put me
on any list that you may have and send me something about your desires,
aims and information that you may have by E-mail but please keep down
to 10k bytes per day. I hope notheing but the best for your group.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone
From: [e-mail] (Travis Stone)
Subject: Ionization (Steve) and Dimensions (corbisier)
Message-ID: <stone.720367148@cwis>
Keywords: Food for thought....
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1992 13:59:08 GMT
Lines: 49




Ms. Corbisier (I assume that's your last name, apologies
if it's not):

The possibility of UFOs being extradimensional has been
discussed extensively by several UFO investigators, most
notably Jaques Vallee ("Dimensions", "Confrontations")
and I must say that I find it easy to imagine that an
extradimensional object would have extraordinary dynamic
and mechanical characteristics as it intruded upon another
space; I can't help but think how (by an admittedly crude
analogy) a two-dimensional "Flatlander" could cruise through
my 3-dimensional corpus like a ghost---or, more accurately,
a hyperthin Wham-O 2-D Frisbee.  Your point is well taken,
and is one that---in light of solid physical evidence to
the contrary---equally deserving of consideration.

Thanks ever so much for the input!   :-)

Steve:

Ionization is something I didn't consider---an intriguing
idea, and an appealing one to a person like myself who
is more at home with a "classical physics" view of the
world (or, perhaps I should say, "universe").  The source
of the ionization would have to be extremely localized,
don't you think, since animal tissue is extremely suscept-
ible to the nasty effects ions and free radicals produce
within it?  It makes me wonder; if ionization is the cause,
then what is the source of the ionization?  Short-wavelength
radiation is one "obvious" source, but if this were so, then
the vehicle passengers would all have suffered terribly---
it would be like getting nailed with a huge dose of X-rays.
This has happened only once---the 1980 Cash-Landrum case
down in Texas (I freely admit the car didn't stall...I just
wanted to cite an obvious case of radiation poisoning from
a CE) and I can't think of any other cases (recent history
or past) in which the passengers of a UFO-stalled vehicle
fell ill.  So where does that leave ionization as a possible
explanation?  "Possible ionization effects through unknown
means."  An interesting idea, Steve; any conjectures as to
the mechanism?

Thanks for your input, too!  :-)

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!jls19
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1992 08:43:14 EST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: NOTE to GREGG, the Abduction Researcher
Lines: 7

You sent me a wonderful email message, but I can't seem to get anything back
to you.  Everything bounces.  Could you please send me your email address,
or another address to try?  I am using the reply command as well and it
keeps coming back to me.

Janet
[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!nec-gw!netkeeper!vivaldi!aslws01!aslss02!duffy
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Duffy)
Subject: Re: October 28th
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: aslss02-sub1
Organization: NEC America, Inc Irving TX
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1992 14:59:57 GMT
Lines: 2

This is an automatic posting. If you are reading this it means that I was
raptured yesterday.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!ub!dsinc!pitt.edu!seawasp
From: [e-mail] (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dateline NBC & UFOs CLUE #2
Keywords: UFO
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Oct 92 15:56:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 20
Originator: [e-mail]



    Y'know, there's a fairly obvious explanation of why this computer
screen displayed a "UFO parts list" or something like that. Two explanations,
actually:

    1) The hacker/crackers actually did get into some very secure areas,
and the TV people replaced the footage which showed some stuff that
SHOULD NOT be shown on the airwaves with some impressive but innocuous BS
displays.

    2) The hacker/crackers scammed the media. They were able to hack
into some things like banks but in actuality they weren't able to get
into secure data banks for the government. However, they had a PROGRAM
which PRETENDED to do that. (I tricked a whole bunch of people that way
once...)

                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!oct17.dfe.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph
From: [e-mail] (Tom Randolph)
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References:   <stone.720282282@cwis>
Date: 29 OCT 92 10:33:48
Lines: 17


In article <stone.720282282@cwis>, [e-mail] (Travis Stone) writes...
>I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
>a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
>fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
>departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
>up.
>T.R. Stone

Some vehicles, notably Toyotas, are very susceptible to radio frequencies
getting into thier computer ignitions. Ham operators can almost shut off a
Toyota's engine at will, remotely.

Now, the UFO/stalling thing has been known for many years, long before
computerized ignitions, so I don't know quite how to apply this tidbit...

-Tom R.   [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Jack Smoke)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Oct 92 17:46:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: lambada.oit.unc.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Patrick Chester) writes:
>One question about this list. Why are so many different starfaring races
>interested in what must be to them a primitive backwater planet. It seems
>pretty arrogant for one to think that we, a race that has barely achieved
>spaceflight to rank so high on the agendas of 6+ starfaring races.

    I'm not a normal contributer to this topic, but afteronly a few
moments of thought, I came up with a couple of ideas:

1) They aren't.  It's mass hysteria.

2) Anthropological interest.  Look at how many Anglos spend
their lives looking at the Yanomano.

3) Perhaps we're on some sort of interstellar border, making
or solar system stratigicly important.

4) There's a booming trade in "Primitive" artifacts.  (Before you
scoff, visit someplace that sells "Indian" crafts.)

5) we're a great delacacy. (See "To Serve Man," the Twilight Zone episode)

    I'm sure there are other plausible reasons.
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
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From: [e-mail] (Anthony Arviola)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Date: 29 Oct 92 13:40:57
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <stone.720296427@cwis>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zip.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of Wed, 28 Oct 1992 18:20:27 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: 2d14bb8637dffb86bd80696298848004

In article <stone.720296427@cwis> [e-mail] (Travis Stone) writes:

   Rod B.:  You say "unshielded"; but wouldn't the metal
   body of the car, and the engine block, and all the
   wiring wrapped thereunto act as a pretty potent EM
   shield?  Look at what a crummy chicken-wire "Faraday
   Cage" does to a radio's ability to recieve a signal!...

You've got a good point.  But I'd like to add that the metal body of the car,
not the block could be a source of shielding.  As some others have pointed out
though, certain radio signals (CB, ham, etc) have been know to knock out
come cars.  How they do it, I'm not 100% sure.

   And as for the Coke can: is it being crumpled by merely
   being placed in a magnetic field w/o having wires
   attached to it, or do we have it wrapped like a big
   clunky solenoid?  If these situations are physically
   equivalent, please point out how---my E&M isn't too
   good...

To tell you the truth, I'll have to check out my old physics notes to see
how it is done.

   And insofar as microwaves doing you a damage: mightn't
   that have something to do with the characteristics of
   the dielectrics which make up organic substances like
   proteins, as well as the frequency of the EM radiation
   involved?

True, but the point is that a lot of things can be done with EM depending
on its frequency and polarization.  That along with natural resonance of
the target object (in my example, the water and other goodies that make up
you.)

   I appreciate your technical input on this, Rod---
   this is just the sort of scientific cross-fertilization
   I was hoping for; and, by gum, you've brought up some
   pretty points.

   T.R. Stone

Hey, I'm a seeker of knowledge myself.  Anyone else got ideas.

Good day,
Tony
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From: [e-mail] (Anthony Arviola)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Date: 29 Oct 92 14:00:06
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
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In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 29 Oct 92 13:40:57
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Just an additional note.

The original poster posted a good point.  Why can't more do the same?

I'm no expert, but I would like to see a lot more logical discussion here.
I'm willing to stretch my paradigm, even shift it a little to try and
understand different peoples opinions...but what are auras and big foot
doing here?

Mr Stone, I appreciated your response.

Bye,
Tony
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From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Date: 29 Oct 1992 18:53:24 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Jack Smoke) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Patrick
Chester) writes:
> >One question about this list. Why are so many different starfaring
races
> >interested in what must be to them a primitive backwater planet. It
seems
> >pretty arrogant for one to think that we, a race that has barely
achieved
> >spaceflight to rank so high on the agendas of 6+ starfaring races.
>
>     I'm not a normal contributer to this topic, but afteronly a few
> moments of thought, I came up with a couple of ideas:
>
> 1) They aren't.  It's mass hysteria.
>
> 2) Anthropological interest.  Look at how many Anglos spend
> their lives looking at the Yanomano.
>
> 3) Perhaps we're on some sort of interstellar border, making
> or solar system stratigicly important.
>
> 4) There's a booming trade in "Primitive" artifacts.  (Before you
> scoff, visit someplace that sells "Indian" crafts.)
>
> 5) we're a great delacacy. (See "To Serve Man," the Twilight Zone
episode)
>
>     I'm sure there are other plausible reasons.

Okay.
6) This is Arthur Clarke's.  Advanced (and benevolent) alien races
encourage the development of intelligent life everywhere, and they
wanted to find out how we were doing.

My own tidbit: If an alien race is encouraging intelligent life on the
planet Earth, and if some member is reading this, we need some help.
We've developed intelligence, but many of us need some help putting it
into practice.

(The above is not directed at any individuals, but at the fact that
Congress is getting away with murder and its members are still being
reelected.  If we see more than 20% of Congress out of office by 6 days
from now, please disregard this.)

7) This is by some fellow named Donald(?) Kingsbury.  Advanced (but
not so benevolent) alien races encourage the development of in-
telligent life to serve as slave races.

Though human behavior is more consistent with this than with #6,
why would an alien race that advanced need to make slave races?
Why not build robots?  (Cultural reasons could be a possibility;
for example, suppose that aliens rejected computer technology
a la the Butlerian Jihad in Dune.)

Enough for now.

Mike A.
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From: [e-mail] (Jack Smoke)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Oct 92 20:41:18 GMT
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Patrick Chester asked:

PC>One question about this list. Why are so many different starfaring races
PC>interested in what must be to them a primitive backwater planet. It seems
PC>pretty arrogant for one to think that we, a race that has barely achieved
PC>spaceflight to rank so high on the agendas of 6+ starfaring races.

    I responded:

JS>     I'm not a normal contributer to this topic, but afteronly a few
JS> moments of thought, I came up with a couple of ideas:
JS>
JS> 1) They aren't.  It's mass hysteria.
JS>
JS> 2) Anthropological interest.  Look at how many Anglos spend
JS> their lives looking at the Yanomano.
JS>
JS> 3) Perhaps we're on some sort of interstellar border, making
JS> our solar system stratigicly important.
JS>
JS> 4) There's a booming trade in "Primitive" artifacts.  (Before you
JS> scoff, visit someplace that sells "Indian" crafts.)
JS>
JS> 5) we're a great delacacy. (See "To Serve Man," the Twilight Zone
JS>episode)
JS>
JS>     I'm sure there are other plausible reasons.>

    Micheal Agney added:

MA>Okay.
MA>6) This is Arthur Clarke's.  Advanced (and benevolent) alien races
MA>encourage the development of intelligent life everywhere, and they
MA>wanted to find out how we were doing.
MA>
MA>[Apeal to alien forces to turn the rascals out of congress deleted]
MA>
MA>7) This is by some fellow named Donald(?) Kingsbury.  Advanced (but
MA>not so benevolent) alien races encourage the development of in-
MA>telligent life to serve as slave races.
MA>
MA>Though human behavior is more consistent with this than with #6,
MA>why would an alien race that advanced need to make slave races?
MA>Why not build robots?  (Cultural reasons could be a possibility;
MA>for example, suppose that aliens rejected computer technology
MA>a la the Butlerian Jihad in Dune.)

    Hmm.  As a possible corilary to #7, there is the possiblity that
our intelligent life is being cultivated for the purpose of entertainment
- sort of like gladiators.  In which case, Michael, your plea is
falling on deaf ears.


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
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From: [e-mail] (EDWARD CRAIG HYATT)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
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Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1992 20:04:18 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>1>+
>Subject: The Old Invisible
>Fish Story.

[edited]

>the greatest," says Dr. Gaston Moreau the marine biologist who discovered
----------------------------------^

[edited]


Wow!  This guy is famous!  I saw a movie about him at 5:00AM
this morning!  He has his own island and everything!  Now
I *really* believe this story, coming from such a credible
source.

Craig

--
--------------------
Craig Hyatt
NCSU@Raleigh, NC USA
[e-mail]
--------------------
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From: [e-mail] (Jean-Marc Vezien)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Oct 92 20:57:26 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Jack Smoke) writes:

>     I'm not a normal contributer to this topic, but afteronly a few
> moments of thought, I came up with a couple of ideas:

[actually 5 -good- reasons]



6) all the Universe is just a dog's dream.

Or is it a god's dream ?



Never Mind,


JM.
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From: [e-mail] (Scott Drellishak)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 29 Oct 1992 22:15:11 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (EDWARD CRAIG HYATT) writes:
)In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
)>1>+
)>Subject: The Old Invisible
)>Fish Story.
)
)[edited]
)
)>the greatest," says Dr. Gaston Moreau the marine biologist who discovered
)----------------------------------^
)
)Wow!  This guy is famous!  I saw a movie about him at 5:00AM
)this morning!  He has his own island and everything!  Now
)I *really* believe this story, coming from such a credible
)source.

"What is the Law?" -- "NO SPILL BLOOD!"
"What is the Law?" -- "NO SPILL BLOOD!"
--
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Scott Drellishak   [e-mail]                          |
|                "Spumco ... the Danes call it quality."                   |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To:  alt.alien.visitors
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Randolph) writes:
|>
|> In article <stone.720282282@cwis>, [e-mail] (Travis Stone) writes...
|> >I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
|> >a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
|> >fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
|> >departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
|> >up.
|> >T.R. Stone
|>
|> Some vehicles, notably Toyotas, are very susceptible to radio frequencies
|> getting into thier computer ignitions. Ham operators can almost shut off a
|> Toyota's engine at will, remotely.
|>
|> Now, the UFO/stalling thing has been known for many years, long before
|> computerized ignitions, so I don't know quite how to apply this tidbit...
|>
|> -Tom R.   [e-mail]



There was one case I read about where a car engine was stopped, but a
diesel truck engine continued to operate. That might shed a clue.


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************
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From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: The Wapsher
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1992 21:45:19 GMT
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>Hey!  Did I sleep through the Rapture or has God decided that there aren't
>ANY good christians on the planet?  Damn, and I was hoping that in this
>conservative town, the disappearance of a large number of its natives
>would cure the growing traffic and parking problem...  Oh well...


Errr, I hate to tell you this, but the rapture did happen, and they
did not take you. This is the place everybody has been telling you
to go all these years.    :^}


Rich

[e-mail]


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From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Date: 29 Oct 1992 19:54:35 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Anthony Arviola) writes:
> In article <stone.720296427@cwis> [e-mail] (Travis Stone)
writes:
>
>    And as for the Coke can: is it being crumpled by merely
>    being placed in a magnetic field w/o having wires
>    attached to it, or do we have it wrapped like a big
>    clunky solenoid?  If these situations are physically
>    equivalent, please point out how---my E&M isn't too
>    good...
>
> To tell you the truth, I'll have to check out my old physics notes to
see
> how it is done.

I've seen this done.  What happens is you take an enormous capacitor,
charge it up to a few kilovolts, take about four turns' worth of fairly
low resistance wire and wrap it around the Coke can, and short the wire
across the can.  The enormous change in magnetic field sets up a
tremendous pulse of counter current in the Coke can, whose magnetic field
interacts with the field of the wire, and causes the part of the can
carrying the current to shrink rapidly.  It's called the "theta pinch"
effect or something.  It's for real, can be verified with more E&M
calculations than I'm willing to do right now, and (as previously
mentioned), I've seen it done.

The derivation is probably too lengthy (and involves too many math
symbols) to go into on the network, but it's true.

As for this happening to cars, you would need a truly enormous change in
magnetic field (for those of you who don't remember E&M, a *CHANGE* in
magnetic field induces a magnetic field in something else) to crush the
car.  Much smaller electromagnetic disturbances might scramble the engine,
but don't take my word for that.

Mike A.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 92 17:54:30 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 7

Greetings: The Great Pyramid of Shensi, China is at the following
coordinates; 34 26' 05''N/ 108 52' 12'' E. It is just NW of the walled
city of Sian in the Shensi Province of China. It is located in the
same area that is the small village of Sien-Yang.
  It was probably made 45,600 years ago and that is the time period
we will be attempting to reach by our OOBE time travel train.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Channeling (was: A change in thinking)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
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Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 00:36:51 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kal) writes:
>Channeling is nothing new, only the names and vocabulary have been changed
>to protect the guilty and appeal to the innocent.
>
>Personally, I channel a being from the gullibulus cluster called Puton.
>Really. Honest to Osiris. My voice changes and everything.

Yes. As has been pointed out, "channeling" is simply "bad ventriloquism."
You talk in a funny voice, but they can still see your lips move.


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Behold a Pale Horse
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brad Pierce) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Keith Spears) writes:
>>Has anyone else read William Cooper's wonderfully paranoid book _Behold
>>a Pale Horse_

Yes, with its incredibly paranoid and anti-Semitic ravings. It contains,
for example, the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion,",
a long-discredited anti-Semitic hoax.

>>Is Mr. Cooper fairly known in conspiracy circles?

Is the Pope Catholic??


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
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From: [e-mail] (Phillip J. Birmingham)
Subject: Re: AURAS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Background Man)
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Aura Watchers:
> It might be good to put our presidential candidates in front of an
> aura TV system as they talked and then we could see if they were telling
> the truth.
> John Winston.

         Why bother?

--
 Phillip J. Birmingham   [e-mail]
 I don't speak for Fermilab, although my mouth is probably big enough...
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From: [e-mail] (Phillip J. Birmingham)
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 03:32:15 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jack Smoke) writes:
>     Micheal Agney added:
>
> MA>7) This is by some fellow named Donald(?) Kingsbury.  Advanced (but
> MA>not so benevolent) alien races encourage the development of in-
> MA>telligent life to serve as slave races.
> MA>
> MA>Though human behavior is more consistent with this than with #6,
> MA>why would an alien race that advanced need to make slave races?
> MA>Why not build robots?  (Cultural reasons could be a possibility;
> MA>for example, suppose that aliens rejected computer technology
> MA>a la the Butlerian Jihad in Dune.)
>
>     Hmm.  As a possible corilary to #7, there is the possiblity that
> our intelligent life is being cultivated for the purpose of entertainment
> - sort of like gladiators.  In which case, Michael, your plea is
> falling on deaf ears.
>

         Where's Spartacus when you need him???

--
 Phillip J. Birmingham   [e-mail]
 I don't speak for Fermilab, although my mouth is probably big enough...
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From: [e-mail] (Phillip J. Birmingham)
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Anthony Arviola) writes:
> In article <stone.720296427@cwis> [e-mail] (Travis Stone) writes:

>    And as for the Coke can: is it being crumpled by merely
>    being placed in a magnetic field w/o having wires
>    attached to it, or do we have it wrapped like a big
>    clunky solenoid?  If these situations are physically
>    equivalent, please point out how---my E&M isn't too
>    good...
>
> To tell you the truth, I'll have to check out my old physics notes to see
> how it is done.

         Well, I'm not sure about crumpling cans, but one of the retired
    professors from my research group is getting rich off an idea he had to
    separate aluminum cans from other garbage.

         It basically uses a rapidly varying magnetic field to induce
    currents in the can, allowing you to give the can a "kick." I forget
    the details, but the demo model he showed us knocked a Sprite can a
    good ten feet, and put a pretty healthy dent in it, too. I imagine if
    you cranked the thing all the way to eleven, you might be able to smush
    the thing.

         Disclaimer: Since the qualifier, I have forgotten almost all I
    know about electrodynamics. It seems that this shouldn't work with a
    perfect conductor (it does work with pop cans); the field from the
    induced current should cancel the external field and that should be
    that. Maybe the nonzero resistance of aluminum is the key. Maybe I'll
    figure this out instead of working on my thesis.


--
 Phillip J. Birmingham   [e-mail]
 I don't speak for Fermilab, although my mouth is probably big enough...
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From: [e-mail] (Bjoern Tore Sund)
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Bergen University Newsaccount)
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Patrick Chester) writes:
|> One question about this list. Why are so many different starfaring races
|> interested in what must be to them a primitive backwater planet. It seems
|> pretty arrogant for one to think that we, a race that has barely achieved
|> spaceflight to rank so high on the agendas of 6+ starfaring races.

You are by what you are saying (writing...) making some assumptions,
which are not necessarily true...;

1. There is a large number of intelligent races in the Universe/Galaxy

2. A race "discovering" earth would have discovered a lot of other worlds,
   with more interresting races, making the earth un-interresting.

It all depends, doesn't it... The only conclusion to draw is that what
happens, happens, and there really isn't all that much we can do about
it, yet...

--
    ___   ___
__  |__)   |    Bjoern Tore Sund (BT)   Quote: "Nothing!"
    |__)   |    [e-mail]              - Marvin

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From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <stone.720296427@cwis> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 02:52:35 GMT
Lines: 19

.but what are auras and big foot
doing here?

Mr Stone, I appreciated your response.

Bye,
Tony

Well, Tony, they are expanding our concepts of what is possible. They are
the extended cousins of the UFO question. They are the outerlying
questions of this enigma inside of a riddle. And they most certainly belong
here.

The only think that does not belong here are people that want to limit
the discussion as it relates to UFO's and ET's.

If you want an anal-retentive discussion, talk to Gregg.
Jeff-

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Subject: Re: Dateline NBC & UFOs CLUE #2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: UFO
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 04:48:20 GMT
Lines: 65

Well,well,

I guess this thing is just going to slip through the cracks again. Everyone
is always bitching in this group that there is no serious discussions or no
evidence to research. A question was brought up about some hackers video
screen on NBC Dateline that had a UFO parts list on it. I find reference to
a project that an official at JPL posts, that appears to be a legit Acronym
for some program that nobody has heard of & NOBODY IS INTERESTED?

I know it is not sensational, but it is something.

I will ask again, has anyone heard about the UFO Atlas launch? See Below:


                             =========================
                                  SPACE CALENDAR
                                September 27, 1992
                             =========================

* indicates change from last month's calendar

   October 1992
     ?? - Galaxy 7 Ariane Launch
     ?? - UFO Atlas Launch
     04 - 35th Anniversary, Sputnik Launch (1st Satellite ever)
     05 - Progress Launch (Soviet)
     09 - Galileo, Trajectory Correction Maneuver 15 (TCM-15)
     10 - Draconid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 197.0 degrees)
    *10 - Mars Observer, 1st Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-1)
     12 - SETI Scanning Begins
     12 - 500th Anniversary, Columbus Discovers America
    *12-15 - Galileo, Dual Drive Actuator Test #4 (DDA-4)
    *12 - DFS-3/Kopernikus Delta 2 Launch
     15 - STS-52, Columbia, Laser Geodynamics Satellite (LAGEOS-II)
     15 - Freja Long March Launch (Sweden/China)
     20 - AUSROC II Launch
     21 - Orionid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 208.4 degrees)

What do you think the acronym stands for?

Uranium Freqeuncy Oscillator?

Under Funded Orbitor?

Unearthly Fungus Observer?

OR WAIT, Mabye (now hold on to you hats) UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT!

Probably something much more mundane, but I can't believe that nobody has
shown any curiosity in this.

One reaps what one sows......nuff said.

Rod


--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$




Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Subject: rapture
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 09:30:17 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Lines: 7

        Hey, I've experienced the rapture, (excuse me) the RAPTURE several
times and I didn't have to wait for Oct. 28.  Many of us modern folk call it
orgasm and it can be heavenly and almost as good as the second coming.  :)
Colleen
--
It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
The Crimson Bunion
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Jamie Paul CURMI)
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 10:13:37 GMT
Lines: 19

[e-mail] (Patrick Chester) writes:

>One question about this list. Why are so many different starfaring races
>interested in what must be to them a primitive backwater planet. It seems
>pretty arrogant for one to think that we, a race that has barely achieved
>spaceflight to rank so high on the agendas of 6+ starfaring races.

>Just wondering.

One of the most intelligent responses this group has seen for a long time...

Is Patrick the only one *really* thinking about all this?

Jamie

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------            Jamie P. Curmi  ([e-mail], [e-mail])                      Department of Computer Science,   Department of Mathematics
         The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    *** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! ***
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a499
From: [e-mail] (Robert Salesas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: rapture
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 92 10:48:03 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Lines: 27

> Colleen Anderson writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <[e-mail]>
> Posted: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 09:30:1
>
> Org.  : MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
>
>         Hey, I've experienced the rapture, (excuse me) the RAPTURE several
> times and I didn't have to wait for Oct. 28.  Many of us modern folk call
> it
> orgasm and it can be heavenly and almost as good as the second coming.  :)
> Colleen
> --
> It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
> The Crimson Bunion


Well, you know... The RAPTURE is best when it's shared, so if ever you feel
the need, feel free to call.  8-)

Rob

--
\------------------------------------------------------------------------/
\ Robert Salesas             | Internet: [e-mail]   /
\ Eschalon Development Inc.  | CIS:    76625,1320  Tel/Fax: [phone] /
\------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!bsu-cs!bsu-ucs.uucp!yang.earlham.edu!aarons
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Crushing Cars (was Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 92 04:40:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]>, ** Sender Unknown ** writes:
>
> As for this happening to cars, you would need a truly enormous change in
> magnetic field (for those of you who don't remember E&M, a *CHANGE* in
> magnetic field induces a magnetic field in something else) to crush the
> car.  Much smaller electromagnetic disturbances might scramble the engine,
> but don't take my word for that.
>
> Mike A.

That's why I support the use of fiberglass, carbon composites, and
ceramics in road vehicles!!

                        Stay Cool, Have Fun,
                        The Aaronstockracy
--
Aaron G. Stock          |          Ace Pumpkin
[e-mail] | Peter Gabriel Fan and Abalone Player
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drawer 1735     |"I'm a-waiting for the ignition, I'm looking for a spark
Earlham College     | Any chance collision and I, light up in the dark
Richmond, Indiana| There you stand before me, all that fur and all that hair
47374         | Oh do I dare-- I have the touch" -Peter Gabriel
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!fuug!prime!mits!karttu
From: [e-mail] (Antti Karttunen)
Subject: Re: HANNA-MARIA's UNIVERSE
Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 01:58:01 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet poster)
Nntp-Posting-Host: mits.mdata.fi
Lines: 40

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>
>>    Hanna-Maria's all drawings about her universe and this story and
>[ lots of material written by a father who's daughter is God in his eyes deleted]
>
>This stuff has been posted and discussed to the tune of megabytes of wasted
>bandwidth.  You, obviously, think your daughter is (take your pick): God,
>a god, a godling, or the most gifted human being ever to walk this planet.
>As I sometimes feel the same way about _my_ little daughter, I can understand.
>However, sir, you present this material as *truth*.
>
>It is obvious that the long and tedious discussions elsewhere, both reasoned
>and inflamatory, have had no effect.
>
>Many people on the net *pay* for their access - so I ask again, why are you
>starting this thread again in yet another forum?  Yes, I know, there are many,
>many fuzzy thinkers here who will believe every word ever printed, but
>come, now, sir.  Cease and desist.  Spare us!
>

You pay for alt.alien.visitors? What do you expect from this newsgroup
anyway?

I read this newgroup definitely because of John Winston's astral travel &
thinking rock stories, Gary Stollman's clones, McElwaine's
important IDEAS and Hanna-Maria's Universe & Space Potatoes.

Relax. If you don't like it, then don't subcribe it to your site.

PS. Read "Valis", a novel by Philip K. Dick.

>--
>Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
>                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
>My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.

--
Antti Karttunen / [e-mail] / $B%"%s%C%F%#!!%+%k%C%H%%%M%s(J
 ++ Think positively, ota olvia, and vote YES!
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12436 alt.alien.visitors:10627 sci.skeptic:33249
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 92 06:26:31 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear People: It is friday and I have no great revolations to make today.
Maybe this weekend.
John Winston
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12437 alt.alien.visitors:10628
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 92 06:30:17 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Pyramid People: Is friday and I have to go and bring home the
beacon and that's hard to do because I'm a card carrying vegetarian.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12438 alt.alien.visitors:10629 alt.religion.kibology:4371
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 92 06:33:48 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Big Foot Lovers: In regard to the female BF's rating as a
prospective mate, a gentleman does not tell.
John Winston
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!gburton
From: [e-mail] (Garland O Burton)
Subject: Re: Where did everyone go?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 15:18:51 GMT
Lines: 9

i asked , long ago, if anyone had physical evidence.

everyone said "no"

end of topic.

gb
--
[e-mail].............copyright 1992 gary burton........
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Where did everyone go?
Keywords: LATER!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 92 15:56:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 24
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

Garland Burton[writes]

>i asked , long ago, if anyone had physical evidence.

>everyone said "no"

>end of topic.

>gb

gb means GOOD-BYE, so don't let the NNTP packets hit ya in the butt on the
way out!

Rod


--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj
From: [e-mail] (jcj)
Subject: Re^2: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: tellabh
Organization: Organization?!?  You eediot!!
References: <stone.720282282@cwis> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 14:50:43 GMT
Lines: 12

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Leonard Spani) writes:
>
>There was one case I read about where a car engine was stopped, but a
>diesel truck engine continued to operate. That might shed a clue.
>

What were the generators on the portable lights that allegedly died
in the Bentwaters case - "gas" or diesel?
--
                [e-mail]
      "It's a thought!  It's just a THOUGHT!"
            ~ C. Manson
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!gburton
From: [e-mail] (Garland O Burton)
Subject: Re: Where did everyone go?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: LATER!
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 16:36:10 GMT
Lines: 44

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:
>Garland Burton[writes]
>
>>i asked , long ago, if anyone had physical evidence.
>
>>everyone said "no"
>
>>end of topic.
>
>>gb
>
>gb means GOOD-BYE, so don't let the NNTP packets hit ya in the butt on the
>way out!
>
>Rod
>
>
>--
>Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
>[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
>                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>
>
>
>

where are you going?

if you knew as much as you assume you know, you might know something.

your tagline/sig seems to be backfiring in this case.

i have left my initials at the end of all of my electro-mail posts for the last 3 years.  you must have me confused for a debunker and someone who gives a shit
about what you think.

as you mature, your blatherings might lessen.

gb

welcome to my kill file.

--
[e-mail].............copyright 1992 gary burton........
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Subject: Re: Where did everyone go?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: LATER!
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 17:38:49 GMT
Lines: 15

gb,

Over your head & below your knees genius, HA..... chuS Qo' yab!

Rod

--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$




Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors.sewage.garbage.bullshit.crackpots.fantas
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Topics submitted
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 15:15:57 GMT
Lines: 76

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul Milsom) writes:
>
>
>[e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)(Gregg) writes:
>(No flame intended, Gregg, I just needed a starter!)
>
>      >However, all are welcome to post articles from anywhere, whether keyed
>    >or copied, on the following subjects:
>
>        >UFOs
>        >Crop Circles
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>        >Abductions^
>        >SETI
>
>- What on earth have crop circles got do with ETs or UFOs?

You must be living in a closet! Seriously, there is a very popular
school of thought that [most] crop circles are not of earthly origin.
Haven't you heard this?

> I think that
>invisible fish or bigfoot are more pertinent... after all, I'm sure most of
>the ETs who come here (apparently thousands per year) are invisible to us,
>and in his book Alien Liaison, Timothy good reports (pp 47>) of bigfoot
>sightings in connection with ETs. (If only half of this book is true, it's
>still sensational!) And does anybody out there really believe there's any
>hope at all for SETI? (Or is it just a cover for something else?)
>
>What about mutilation reports? They certainly seem relevant. Are they allowed
>to be posted? What about people who claim to have had contact with ETs? What
>about outrageous stories of ET contact? What about just a teeny weeny bit
>unusual stories about ET contact? Who will judge them? What about cloning and
>clones? Rejected? Some people apparently regard ETs to be angels. What about
>stories about angels? Do ETs have auras? This is a relevant question.
>Remember how Don Juan (Carlos Castaneda) said he could tell that some
>"people" were "allies" because they didn't have auras? Maybe allies are ETs?
>
>I have refrained from quoting from A Course In Miracles for weeks, not only
>because we've had a spate of exams (nobody failed!), but also because I
>thought that some people regarded it as "New Age" (a phrase I don't fully
>understand anyway). But now I hear that many abductees begin to have "New
>Age" ideas when they return. Doesn't this make some of these ideas relevant,
>or at least a discussion of what New Age is, and why these people begin to
>think in this way?
>
>And what about humour? Would it be banned? I admit I don't like the snide
>comments, but some of the quips are immortal. Do we have so many professors
>on the net that it has to be boring and aloof in order to be accepted?
>
>I enjoy it all, except the abuse, and hope it continues.
>
>                                            Professor Paul
>
>Paul Milsom
>[e-mail]


In my moderated e-mail group, most subjects will be allowed if they
are even loosely related to the following question and intelligently
(as opposed to sensationally) presented:

Are aliens abducting people?


There is not definate line. I am sure I will offend people in saying this but
I must. We just wanted to get away from the newage stuff. To me, the subject
of UFOs/Aliens needs to be approached in a scientific manner not a newage
and sensationalistic manner. BTW, my research is rolling. Its getting very
interesting.


--
        Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research
        812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at [e-mail]
               All information will be strictly confidential.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <stone.720282282@cwis> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 15:44:37 GMT
Lines: 69

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anthony Arviola) writes:
>In article <stone.720282282@cwis> [e-mail] (Travis Stone) writes:
>   I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
>   a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
>   fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
>   departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
>   up.  "Could it be done?" I asked; his reply was that, to knock
>   out a running ignition system (spark plugs and whatnot) you
>   would need a magnetic field of such enormous strength that it
>   should actually crumple the metal body of the car to a noticeable
>   degree---"assuming," said he, "that it's being done with ordinary
>   magnetic fields like we can produce here, and not some---well,
>   we'll call it 'supernatural force'---that we don't know about."
>
>   The way he explained it, it seems impossible for a UFO to shut
>   down a running motor simply through E&M effects without turning
>   the car into a modern-art wadded-up wreck---yet many sane and
>   ...
>   Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?
>
>   T.R. Stone
>   University of Nebraska-Omaha
>   Where the quest for Truth (and Tuition Hikes) Never Ends...
>
>Consider the radar arrays on navy ship have EM pulses strong enough to
>fry you and your eggs in one sweep.  Yet, none of the ship's metal crumples.
>
>Consider that an EM pulse can destroy many chips and their memory.
>
>Consider that a Coke can can be crushed by a magnetic field...if it has
>the right amount of current running through it.
>
>Conclusion.  There is not enough information to conclude that a car has
>to be crushed in order to have it cut off.  Chances are that it could be
>cut off as a previous post has given in example.
>
>Good day,
>Tony


In most abduction reports that involve an automobile there is an
element that is almost always present. That is that fact that the
car's starter will turn the engine but the engine won't start. In
pre-1975 vehicles this is just as common as in later model autos with
electronic ignition. The later being easier to kill because of the
control electronics being transistorized.  I dispute the original
technician's opinion since there have been articles in some HAM radio
magazines about some cars' suseptability to RF interference to the
control systems. I have been interested in HAM radio for years. The
typical HAM transmitter puts out less than 50 watts. The reports are
that some cars simply "shut down" when the transmitter is keyed. In
these same reports, there has been nothing said about fenders
buckling. If the afore mentioned tech was refering only to magnetism,
he's probably right.  However, EM refers to the entire spectrum and
includes RF. One thing I would also mention is that not only do cars
stop but quite often the commercial power distribution grid is
disrupted. My guess is that if these aliens really exist and are
causing these things to happen (cars stopping, house power
fluctuating) they either a) have more power at their disposal and are
using it at the time of the disruption than we can imagine or b) what
they are using we know nothing about and happens to cause the
disruptions.

Gregg.

--
        Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research
        812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at [e-mail]
               All information will be strictly confidential.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
Subject: Re: Abduction research.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 16:16:38 GMT
Lines: 57

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jim Bowery) writes:
>[e-mail] (<[e-mail]>) writes:
>
>>
>> --
>>
>>                 Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Abductions.
>>         812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at [e-mail]
>>                All information will be strictly confidential.
>
>
>Please post a LOT more information about yourself.
>
>--
>INTERNET:  [e-mail] (Jim Bowery)
>UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jim
>NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA [phone]

As with many abductees, I prefer to remain somewhat anonymous. Really
not much to tell. I have been studying this stuff for several years,
on and off. My motives are not profit making and are geared toward
research, information gathering and damage control. I also do not have
a Ph.D. I do have, however, have an awestruck curiosity of this
unexplained phenomenon. I am out to prove it is what it is, whatever
that may be. Does that make any sense? It does to me. One of my
biggest concerns is the people surrounding this kind of thing. It
seems to me there is enough damage being done and I wish to conpensate
for some of that damage. How, I haven't decided. One thing I have
decided is that I must be more than just VERY careful, lest I fall
into the groove with many other abduction researchers. I am quite a
different breed than what you have seen before. Quite frankly, I feel
very inadequate. I felt the same way with my first job. 6 months later
I was its master. I hope this is not that simple.

Personal Profile: (somewhat non specific)


Age: Late 20s

Marital Status: MWC (Married With Children)

Profession: Computer Software Development

Education: Digital Electronics

Background: Very Strong Traditional Family
            No criminal record
            Very skeptical of newage material
            Confessing Christian (yeah, Jesus did it, now its our turn!)
            Disgusted with sensationalism of all forms

You may request more information if you wish. E-mail me at [e-mail]

--
        Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research
        812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at [e-mail]
               All information will be strictly confidential.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
Subject: Re: Questionaire...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 16:32:24 GMT
Lines: 37

In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>In the spirit of Crispin Glover,
>I say, "these are STUPID questions."
>
>Don't get upset.
>
>I don't think there can be a *standardized* UFO abduction
>report form. If you are researching the subject, then a set
>of particualr questions can be included.
>
>For instance, I would only be interested in the general
>shape of the craft (was it round, or oblong...); color
>of the lights; physique of visitor; nature of contact...
>
>That is, these were the things I would want to know
>if I wasn't already an alien myself!
>====================================
>Rob Walters - [e-mail]
>"Re-elect Gary Stollman..."

I think just about the only question that needs to be asked is "what did
you see?" and then set back and listen to the story. I think far to many
investigatory sessions start with either leading or non-applicable questions.
This is one thing I have learned from reading abductee regression statements.
Most of the time, the abductee will describe the prominent things. Rambling
sometimes occurs and the interviewer has to ask a question to get the
statement to continue, thats about it. I don't think a questionaire, other
than time, date, location, weather conditions, and a few others, are necessary.
The specific stuff needs to be asked for statistical analysis in comparing it
to other sightings/abductions.

Gregg.

--
        Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research
        812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at [e-mail]
               All information will be strictly confidential.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors.sewage.garbage.bullshit.crackpots.fantasy
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 16:40:36 GMT
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>Baaaaahh, what can you do?...
>
>Maybe we're all crazy and only you are sane.
>-------
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[e-mail]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>!!!!! ROB WALTERS/ EDITOR, SPHERIC (Global Monthly For Humans) !!!!!!!!!!
>!!!!! 695 PARK AVE., NEW YORK, NY 10021 ### [phone] ### !!!!!!!!!!
>!!!!!! "HELP STAMP OUT AN END TO ISMISTIC ISMISM." -- HERBERT RONZONI !!!
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I am still considering this.

Gregg.
--
        Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research
        812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at [e-mail]
               All information will be strictly confidential.
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Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Friday, 30 Oct 1992 13:53:11 EST
From: Robert A Rawlinson <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
References: <stone.720282282@cwis> <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

A diesel engine has no electric or electronic ignition since it depends on
the heat of compression to ignite the fuel.
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From: [e-mail] (Citecheck Hell)
Subject: Re: alt.fan.omar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 18:08:07 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Ok, so how does one go about becoming a new group?

This was such a great straight line, I had to let Kibo take it.
--
ted frank                     | [e-mail]
also at [e-mail] | standard disclaimers | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
References: <stone.720296427@cwis> <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 92 19:51:03 GMT
Lines: 26

Seems lots of folk have gotten hung up on induction of enormous magnetic
fields from UFO's, and ramifications thereof...

Let's keep it simple.  How about induction if a unwanted signal on a
unshielded wire that's part of a computer command and control circuit?
As I recall, the militarty lost a number of choppers through this effect -
when flying the suckers close to powerful radio frequency emitters.  (I'm
sure someone out there will remember the particular chopper - or try
sci.military).  It is/was incidents like that which promote the increased use
of fiber optics in command and control systems.

While I'm not exactly a believer in non-earthly UFO's (the energy required to
get here is ridiculous, barring Scotty and his dilithium crystals...), we
can at least keep the focus of purported side effects within the bounds of
practicality.

Happy Halloween, all.  I'm gonna dress as a Grey and boil some managers
around here...


kbq

--
Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Randolph)
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References:   <stone.720282282@cwis> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 OCT 92 10:18:36
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Leonard Spani) writes...
>There was one case I read about where a car engine was stopped, but a
>diesel truck engine continued to operate. That might shed a clue.
>| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |

Well, diesels have no ignition system to speak of, so it points to the car's
ignition, as we speculated. Exactly WHY it fails is anybody's guess.
It would have to either short out, so the sparks never reach the plugs, or
maybe get so swamped with energy that the plugs fire continuously, burning up
the fuel-air charge as it enters the cylinder, and producing no power... The
former seems unlikely, mainly cuz I can't think of a good way to do it
remotely. The latter is probably possible with a high enough electromagnetic or
static field.
BTW, the underside of the engine compartment is realtively unshielded, so I
don't think the car's body panels would be that great a shield. Spark plug
noise gets out of there without much problem, and gets into AM and CB radios.
The reason chicken wire works is that there's no holes in chicken wire bigger
than an inch or two - too small for RF waves too "fit" through, for lack of a
better explanation. The empty space between your engine and the ground is just
a bit bigger than that! :-) Note how small the holes have to be in the screen
on your microwave oven's door - much higher freq., much smaller wavelength,
screen has to be tighter to trap all the energy.

-Tom R.   [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.mentorg.com!garyk!garyk
From: [e-mail] (Gary Kaminski)
Subject: Re: Where did everyone go?
Sender: [e-mail] (News User)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 20:33:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: garyk.mentorg.com
Organization: mentor
Keywords: LATER!
Followup-To:
Lines: 2

Here is my opportunity to see if anyone can read me.  I think I qualify as
a member of "everyone".
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uwm.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!bsu-cs!bsu-ucs.uucp!yang.earlham.edu!aarons
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: An apology(?) and other Views
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 92 05:12:29 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana
Lines: 48

Hey there, folks.

    I just want to clear something up here: I meant my last posting
(that is, the one about John Winston's Frequent Message Program) in jest.
I thought I made that clear, but if I hadn't, then I am now:

        Just a jest, no more, no lest.

Okay. Rich, I will not do that again.
        I will not do that again.
        I will not do that again.
        I will not do that again.
        I will not do that again.
Unless I make it damn clear what I'm trying to say.

OK, just a few points:
I don't want you all to think that I don't believe a word that comes into
this newsgroup. I do believe, for example, that aliens (ate my Buick! no)
are abducting humans for various sundry purposes. The evidence that Jacobs
has given us in his book _Secret Life_ and all of the reports that trickle
in from other sources is too detailed to have been faked (at least easily).
    If they aren't doing nasty things to us (nasty to us, that is) then I
at least believe that there are aliens flying around in air/space ships; I
mean, I find it hard to believe, even, granted, with little/no
material evidence (or at least, evidence that We the Public have viewed)
that many people from many different walks of life and geographic
locations could be deluding themselves when they notice weird lights
pulling Mach 4, then stopping and writing "Ha! try explaining this to your
friends at work!" in the sky (in other words, performing incredible aerial
maneuvers), then zooming off again. The anecdotal evidence is too great to
be fully discounted.
    Enjoy your day, all!

                        Yours sincerely,
                        Anne Strongcloak
                        Aaron Glenn Stock

P.S. I agree that a moderated group for alt.alien.visitors would be pointless
because of the occasional difficulty separating reality from fiction (or
alternate reality!) in this newsgroup.
--
Aaron G. Stock          |          Ace Pumpkin
[e-mail] | Peter Gabriel Fan and Abalone Player
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drawer 1735     |"I'm a-waiting for the ignition, I'm looking for a spark
Earlham College     | Any chance collision and I, light up in the dark
Richmond, Indiana| There you stand before me, all that fur and all that hair
47374         | Oh do I dare-- I have the touch" -Peter Gabriel
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: re: Apology: I meant jeffp, not rich
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 92 05:55:42 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana
Lines: 10

Oops! sorry, Rich.
I meant Jeffp.
--
Aaron G. Stock          |          Ace Pumpkin
[e-mail] | Peter Gabriel Fan and Abalone Player
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drawer 1735     |"I'm a-waiting for the ignition, I'm looking for a spark
Earlham College     | Any chance collision and I, light up in the dark
Richmond, Indiana| There you stand before me, all that fur and all that hair
47374         | Oh do I dare-- I have the touch" -Peter Gabriel
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From: [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 28th
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 92 19:16:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Distribution: alt
Organization: Setec Astronomy
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] () writes:
>Well it is October 28th. Early in the morning for me but late in the afternoon
>across the pond in Europe.
>
>Nothing has happend.  Ho Hum.  No alien invasion. No dictatorial takeover by
>President Bush and alas and alak no Rapture.  For all of you folks out there
>that have been waiting for today:  "How does it feel to be made a fool of?"

Well, to quote the Jackson Browne lyric:

   "Don't think it won't happen just because it hasn't happened yet..."

Besides, if 144,000 people *world-wide* suddenly disappeared,
I'm not so sure that we'd notice right away.  The Earth's population
is what, 4 billion?  So that's about one person per 28 million?
(Somebody check my math).

--
DISCLAIMER:                                              | Bob Mitchell
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | [e-mail]
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy         | 1987 VT700c
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From: [e-mail] (Bryan O'Sullivan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors.sewage.garbage.bullshit.crackpots.fantasy
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 92 19:58:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>   <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>   <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (NN required at ashe.cs.tcd.ie)
Organization: Yellow Leather Spanking Foot Glands and Illuminati, GmBH
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Nntp-Posting-Host: unix1.tcd.ie

[e-mail] writes:

>Dear Earth Inhabitants: Boy I sure hope the people from space are
>not monitoring these conversations. If they do come down it's going to
>be like the Long Ranger said to Tonto as 10,000 Indians came over the
>hill, "Well old friend, it looks like this is the end." Then Tonto
>said, "Speak for yourself, white man."

You speak for yourself, PINK BOY!  When the Rapture comes, I'll be
wearing all the brand name tee shirts and buttons I can find.  Send
$18 million by the weekend, John; we need the donuts.  You can be
one of the lucky 25 if you just





                *    <-- LICK THIS SPOT


Pray we don't make YOU vomit like George Bush did under our influence
in Japan!

    <b

P.S.  When the Greys come, I want the McDonalds franchise.
--
      Bryan O'Sullivan, Computer Science Department, University of Dublin
                             [e-mail]
      "[A distributed system is] one on which I can't do any work because
        some machine I've never heard of has crashed." -- Leslie Lamport
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Max Elliot)
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 20:44:16 GMT
Lines: 17

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Bjoern Tore Sund):
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Patrick Chester) writes:
> |> One question about this list. Why are so many different starfaring races
> |> interested in what must be to them a primitive backwater planet. It seems
> |> pretty arrogant for one to think that we, a race that has barely achieved
> |> spaceflight to rank so high on the agendas of 6+ starfaring races.
>

  One thing is for certain:

   If the races in question are alien, then likely so is their entire
   system of reasoning.  For us to discuss the logistics of their
   behaviour in terrestrial terms is nonsense. None of what they do or
   do not do may *ever* make sense to us even were they to try and
   explain.

-Max
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
Subject: Re: Ionization (Steve) and Dimensions (corbisier)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Food for thought....
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <stone.720367148@cwis>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 19:15:27 GMT
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>Steve:
>
>Ionization is something I didn't consider---an intriguing
>idea, and an appealing one to a person like myself who
>is more at home with a "classical physics" view of the
>world (or, perhaps I should say, "universe").  The source
>of the ionization would have to be extremely localized,
>don't you think, since animal tissue is extremely suscept-
>ible to the nasty effects ions and free radicals produce
>within it?  It makes me wonder; if ionization is the cause,
>then what is the source of the ionization?  Short-wavelength
>radiation is one "obvious" source, but if this were so, then
>the vehicle passengers would all have suffered terribly---
>it would be like getting nailed with a huge dose of X-rays.
>This has happened only once---the 1980 Cash-Landrum case
>down in Texas (I freely admit the car didn't stall...I just
>wanted to cite an obvious case of radiation poisoning from
>a CE) and I can't think of any other cases (recent history
>or past) in which the passengers of a UFO-stalled vehicle
>fell ill.  So where does that leave ionization as a possible
>explanation?  "Possible ionization effects through unknown
>means."  An interesting idea, Steve; any conjectures as to
>the mechanism?
>
>Thanks for your input, too!  :-)
>
>T.R. Stone
>University of Nebraska-Omaha

In many of the abduction cases I have reviewed, many of the people get
sick to their stomach just before the car stalls or the lights go out, etc.
Often times they have this sick feeling for several hours after the CE.

Just though I would inject a little info that might be a clue. Its possible
that the paralyzing (auto and biological) force that the aliens use (if they
exist) gives humans a sick to their stomach feeling.

Gregg.

--
        Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research
        812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at [e-mail]
               All information will be strictly confidential.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.larc.nasa.gov!zip.larc.nasa.gov!ada
From: [e-mail] (Anthony Arviola)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Date: 30 Oct 92 15:47:45
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <stone.720296427@cwis> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zip.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of Fri, 30 Oct 1992 02:52:35 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: ddf40a5bf11ec68b77d592e297d4ce90

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff) writes:

   .but what are auras and big foot
   doing here?

   Mr Stone, I appreciated your response.

   Bye,
   Tony

   Well, Tony, they are expanding our concepts of what is possible. They are
   the extended cousins of the UFO question. They are the outerlying
   questions of this enigma inside of a riddle. And they most certainly belong
   here.

   The only think that does not belong here are people that want to limit
   the discussion as it relates to UFO's and ET's.

Well then, let us talk origins, then Jesus, then religion, then morality,
then the death penalty, then abortion, then domestic violence, then football.
Who do you think will win this weeks games?  Any Redskins fans out there?

Get real.  These things may be related to alien visitors (the name of this
news group), I'll give you that.  But where do you draw the line?  I agree
you don't draw a line if you don't want to stop being open.  I AM interested
in Bigfoot, and auras, and the JFK assasination, but if I want to partake in
discussion of one of these things, I would like to do so in a news group
related to these.

The universe is beautifully interconnected.  The physical and no doubt meta-
physical world is intertwined by cause and effect.  Consider a simple system
like a car.  If I wanted to learn how a carberator works, I would look at
the carberator to find out.  Of course, the carberator depends on a vacuum
system, as the intake system depends on the carberator (ie your point is taken)
but I couldn't take a look at the intake system and say "so that's how a carb.
works".  I would instead subscribe to alt.auto.carberators and discuss it.

But we don't know anything, and we can't even prove that...right?

The writer(s) of the FAQ have some good ideas.  Have you checked it out yet?

Trying do deal with lower vibrations/
have a good day,
Tony

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news!wrs.com!davidj
From: [e-mail] (David Jones)
Subject: Re: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Manager)
Nntp-Posting-Host: erra
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 22:49:35 GMT
Lines: 49

Barb writes:

>At the MUFON New Hampshire conference in September, this subject was dis-
>cussed by Dr. Steven Greer, I believe.  It was Phobos II, and it was ta-
>ken out of service by some unknown source, but just before it went, it
>sent back a picture of a cylindrical object.  A press conference was
>held in this country to discuss the entire incident, but it went virtually
>unnoticed by the American Press (here's more fodder for the conspiracy
>folk!)

I was one of the people that helped put on this press conference at the  Rus-
sian  Consulate  in  San  Francisco last December wherein Dr. Marina Popovich
showed a photo (I had to help make blow-ups of it) of Phobos  with  a  25  km
long  UFO.   This  photo  was, subsequently, shown at our Soviet/American UFO
Symposium two days later.  It was then published in UFO Magazine.  We were on
all  the  major TV networks (except CNN) locally.  The story went out over AP
and appeared in various forms all over the world.  The press was  invited  to
the  Vegas  conference  where,  again, she presented this photo.  I might add
that Marina is as famous as Arnold S. and is mobbed on the streets of Moscow.
In  order to hold this press conference, which is extremely rare in San Fran-
cisco, they had to contact Moscow for permission.  It took 20 minutes to  get
the "OK".  How long will it take OUR government to tell the truth?

I have always wondered why no one has ever asked Mr. Bush, during  all  these
press  conferences,  town  meetings,  interviews, etc., and in regards to the
Presidential election,  a  question  about  the  U.  S.  Secret  Government's
involvement  with  extraterrestrials, their spacecraft and the continued back
engineering that goes on in over 100 facilities in this country, and overseas
- such as the super secret CIA base at Pine Gap in Australia.

In general, there is a news blackout in this country (England too) in regards
to  IACs  (IAC is the United States Air Forces acronym for ``Identified Alien
Craft'' - what most of you call UFOs).

It's all so frustrating.  What to do?  I keep trying.  I know of hundreds  of
others that keep trying (a friend, Bob Brown, is trying again with the upcom-
ing Vegas Conference in a few days).  I guess that as long as we  live  in  a
society that is totally and thoroughly corrupt, and controlled by people that
would rather completely destroy the entire planet (by pollution, etc.) rather
than  give up power and control, then we may expect to continue to be held in
a cage of lies and deceit that the majority of the population of planet earth
is totally unaware of.

Sigh.

-------------------
  David W. Jones
  [e-mail]
-------------------
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!utcsri!skule.ecf!torn!cunews!nrcnet0!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!uknet!warwick!warwick!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Mr G S Sutherland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 92 19:43:04 GMT
References: <stone.720282282@cwis> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Lines: 36
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Leonard Spani) writes:

[Stuff deleted]

+|> In article <stone.720282282@cwis>, [e-mail] (Travis Stone)
+|>writes...
+|> Now, the UFO/stalling thing has been known for many years, long before
+|> computerized ignitions, so I don't know quite how to apply this tidbit...
+|>
+|> -Tom R.   [e-mail]

[Stuff deleted]

+There was one case I read about where a car engine was stopped, but a
+diesel truck engine continued to operate. That might shed a clue.
+
+
+--
+***********************************************************************
+| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
+| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
+*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************

A diesel engine does not use spark plugs, since it ignites the fuel/air
mix by compression. Hence there will possibly be no electrics in it,
unless of course the fuel and oil pumps are electrical as opposed to
mechanical.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, my knowledge of mechanics is rather
weak.

I've also heard of cases of UFOs shutting of local electricity supplies
as they fly over residential areas. This too may be of help.

Graeme Sutherland.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!usenet
From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Date: 30 Oct 1992 22:21:52 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchy.caltech.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Kevin Quinn) writes:
> While I'm not exactly a believer in non-earthly UFO's (the energy
required to
> get here is ridiculous, barring Scotty and his dilithium crystals...),

Theoretically speaking, you very well might be wrong on the energy.  It is
a fact (which I could probably derive for the rest of the group if anyone
wants) that the energy needed to reach GEO from rest on the Earth's
surface is about the same amount needed to achieve solar escape velocity
from GEO.

Two caveats in this, though:
1) Other systems may have different orbital dynamics, i.e. escape energy
from their solar system is far too much.  This isn't enough, though,
because escape energy might also be far LESS than the energy needed for
planetary orbit.  So the other caveat is much better:
2) Practically, this would be almost useless.  Sure, you escape the solar
system, but at a snail's pace.  To actually get anywhere in under a
lifetime, you do need the "ridiculous" amount of energy that Kevin
mentioned.

Of course, that may not matter to aliens that can build an ecosphere in a
spaceship, and even less to aliens that are also nearly immortal (i.e.
more than 10^4 year lifespan [exponential notation]).  Don't anyone object
that such aliens wouldn't care about us, now; how can humans speculate on
the motivations of aliens that think far differently from (grammar?) us?

/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney          | "Well, if we were to build a   |
|                        |           giant badger..."     |
|                        |    - Monty Python and the      |
| [e-mail] |      search for the Holy Grail |
\---------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!megatek!max
From: [e-mail] (Max Elliot)
Subject: Re: Dateline NBC & UFOs CLUE #2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 02:10:41 GMT
Lines: 20

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith):
> Well,well,
>
> I guess this thing is just going to slip through the cracks again. Everyone
> is always bitching in this group that there is no serious discussions or no
> evidence to research. A question was brought up about some hackers video
> screen on NBC Dateline that had a UFO parts list on it. I find reference to
> a project that an official at JPL posts, that appears to be a legit Acronym
> for some program that nobody has heard of & NOBODY IS INTERESTED?
>
> I know it is not sensational, but it is something.
>
> I will ask again, has anyone heard about the UFO Atlas launch? See Below:
>

  Nope, never heard of it. I'll call my friends at JPL, but before I do
  I'll predict that the 'O' in UFO stands for 'Orbit', and that a UFO
  is some kind of orbit, like GSO.
-Max

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!usenet
From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
Date: 31 Oct 1992 03:01:38 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchy.caltech.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Jones) writes:
> Barb writes:
>
> I have always wondered why no one has ever asked Mr. Bush, during  all
these
> press  conferences,  town  meetings,  interviews, etc., and in regards
to the
> Presidential election,  a  question  about  the  U.  S.  Secret
Government's
> involvement  with  extraterrestrials, their spacecraft and the continued
back
> engineering that goes on in over 100 facilities in this country, and
overseas
> - such as the super secret CIA base at Pine Gap in Australia.
>
> In general, there is a news blackout in this country (England too) in
regards
> to  IACs  (IAC is the United States Air Forces acronym for ``Identified
Alien
> Craft'' - what most of you call UFOs).
> -------------------
>   David W. Jones
>   [e-mail]
> -------------------

The reason no one has questioned Bush about secret involvement with UFOs
is because those who would do so realize that they have no more
credibility on the matter than the government does.  If they ask him about
it, he will simply deny that any aliens have ever landed on the planet,
and in this matter most people would believe him.  (In response to good
programming?)

The best chance the people who know (?) about secret alien involvement
would be to get Perot elected, since he would be likely to believe in a
theory most people regard "crazy".  (Witness his claims that the
government made plans to disrupt his daughter's wedding.)  Unfortunately
for them, Perot has a somewhat low chance of winning.  As of this moment,
by the way, Bush's poll numbers are rising, and it looks like there's a
good chance he will win - a lot better than he had a week ago, at least.

(BTW, I don't buy a word of all that bulls**t about a conspiracy to hide
from the public that the aliens have come and the government is dealing
with them.  Since when is our government competent enough to cover up
something like this so completely?  I admit that the conspiracy theory
might be true, but unless I find good evidence that it is true, I will not
put my trust in it.  After all, any evidence that there is no conspiracy
is labeled as a fabrication designed to lull the populace.)

/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney          | "Well, if we were to build a   |
|                        |           giant badger..."     |
|                        |    - Monty Python and the      |
| [e-mail] |      search for the Holy Grail |
\---------------------------------------------------------/
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12442 alt.alien.visitors:10657 sci.skeptic:33287
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: John_-_Winston's World (was: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritua
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 92 20:35:55 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: Thank you very much. I am at a loss to say anything in
return.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12443 alt.alien.visitors:10658 sci.skeptic:33289
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 92 20:53:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 19

Subject: Giant Rock Airport.
 Back in about the 1950s there was a man by the name of George VanTassel who
lived at a place called Giant Rock Airport in the Mojave Desert. One evening
he was having a class in a large room and he made a statement that there may
even be a person from space in the room with them at that time.  One of the
people there then said that he was from space. He looked like a regular
earth person.  George then asked him if there was something he could do that
would prove that he was from outter space.  The space person then asked if
becoming invisible would prove it. George then said that turning invisible
would do just fine. The space person then turned invisible while they
watched then he became visible again.  George then said, "Would you mind
doing that again?  He did it again.
  The space person then added that there was another space person in the room
but he chose not to make himself know because he was working a lot of the
time here on Earth in the open and he didn't want people to know he was from
space.
  So that's the whole story as I was told it.
John Winston.

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!hoptoad!amdcad!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 00:06:36 GMT
Lines: 21

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anthony Arviola) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff) writes:
>
(Rubbish Deleted)

>
>The writer(s) of the FAQ have some good ideas.  Have you checked it out yet?
>
>Trying do deal with lower vibrations/
>have a good day,
>Tony
>
*I AM* one of the authors of the FAQ, thankyou very much.

I don't want to argue about it. If it is realted in some way to the UFO
puzzle, and you want to talk about it, this is the place. If you don't want
to read it, hit your "n" key, period. End of discussion.

Jeff-


Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12444 alt.alien.visitors:10660
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 92 20:56:36 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: Maybe that is what is wrong with me. I have been
bringing home the beacon rather than bringing home the bacon.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!taligent!apple!veritas!amdcad!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors.sewage.garbage.bullshit.crackpots.fantas
Keywords: Topics submitted
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Oct 92 00:23:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 28

>In my moderated e-mail group, most subjects will be allowed if they
>are even loosely related to the following question and intelligently
>(as opposed to sensationally) presented:
>
>Are aliens abducting people?
>
>
>There is not definate line. I am sure I will offend people in saying this but
>I must. We just wanted to get away from the newage stuff. To me, the subject
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(READ: We just want to ignore about 50% of the pertinent data.)

>of UFOs/Aliens needs to be approached in a scientific manner not a newage
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(READ: In a manner that my limited consiousness can grasp, without venturing
into any thing they didn't teach me in EE/CS class.)

>and sensationalistic manner. BTW, my research is rolling. Its getting very
>interesting.                       i^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
(Oh Brother...yawn.)
>
>--
>        Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research

(Your a legend in your own mind.)

Jeff-
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dateline NBC & UFOs CLUE #2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Oct 92 01:03:30 EST
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 73

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:
> Well,well,
>
> I guess this thing is just going to slip through the cracks again. Everyone
> is always bitching in this group that there is no serious discussions or no
> evidence to research. A question was brought up about some hackers video
> screen on NBC Dateline that had a UFO parts list on it. I find reference to
> a project that an official at JPL posts, that appears to be a legit Acronym
> for some program that nobody has heard of & NOBODY IS INTERESTED?


Perhaps the 'UFO parts list' shown on Dateline is related to this 'UFO'
project? Maybe them hackers didn't make up those displays? Hmm....

What does UFO stand for? 'Upper <fill in this blank> Observatory'?

>
> I know it is not sensational, but it is something.
>
> I will ask again, has anyone heard about the UFO Atlas launch? See Below:
>
>
>                              =========================
>                                   SPACE CALENDAR
>                                 September 27, 1992
>                              =========================
>
> * indicates change from last month's calendar
>
>    October 1992
>      ?? - Galaxy 7 Ariane Launch
>      ?? - UFO Atlas Launch
>      04 - 35th Anniversary, Sputnik Launch (1st Satellite ever)
>      05 - Progress Launch (Soviet)
>      09 - Galileo, Trajectory Correction Maneuver 15 (TCM-15)
>      10 - Draconid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 197.0 degrees)
>     *10 - Mars Observer, 1st Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-1)
>      12 - SETI Scanning Begins
>      12 - 500th Anniversary, Columbus Discovers America
>     *12-15 - Galileo, Dual Drive Actuator Test #4 (DDA-4)
>     *12 - DFS-3/Kopernikus Delta 2 Launch
>      15 - STS-52, Columbia, Laser Geodynamics Satellite (LAGEOS-II)
>      15 - Freja Long March Launch (Sweden/China)
>      20 - AUSROC II Launch
>      21 - Orionid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 208.4 degrees)
>
> What do you think the acronym stands for?
>
> Uranium Freqeuncy Oscillator?
>
> Under Funded Orbitor?
>
> Unearthly Fungus Observer?
>
> OR WAIT, Mabye (now hold on to you hats) UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT!
>
> Probably something much more mundane, but I can't believe that nobody has
> shown any curiosity in this.
>
> One reaps what one sows......nuff said.
>
> Rod
>
>
> --
> Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
> [e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
>                  |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>
>
>
>
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!psinntp!psinntp!newstand.syr.edu!rodan.acs.syr.edu!bjross
From: [e-mail] (Brian J. Ross)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 28th
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 92 17:16:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Lines: 5

Well, either it didn't happen, or a lot less people got raptured than we all
expected...

Infinitely,                                 Contact me personally at
Rossy the Psychopath                        [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts.ccc!nmt
From: nmt@NSA
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: rapture
Message-ID: <40f402r=[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Oct 92 19:25:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: ACM Development
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes:
>
>         Hey, I've experienced the rapture, (excuse me) the RAPTURE several
> times and I didn't have to wait for Oct. 28.  Many of us modern folk call it
> orgasm and it can be heavenly and almost as good as the second coming.  :)
> Colleen
> --
> It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
> The Crimson Bunion

     Hey you, DEVIL WORSHIPER!!!!!

     At least show some respect regarding other people's belief.  I personally
never believed that the rapture would occur on the 28th of October.  But,
if that is what others believed, I just leave it at that.  THERE HAS TO BE
A LIMIT FOR EVERYTHING.  THERE ARE CERTAIN SUBJECTS THAT ONE CAN NOT JOKE
ABOUT, and religious belief is certainly one of them.
     Maybe your parents never taught you anything, but being an adult (or are
you?????) you should know better than joking in such trashy manner.  Perhaps
you are just too modern that there is no more moral value left in your head
which probably is already full of garbage and trash.
     BE SILENT YOU IMMORAL FOOL!!!!!  I despised creatures like you.  It must
be creatures like you that create and promote the immorality in the society
to day, and poison the minds of the youngs.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.univie.ac.at!chx400!sparc2!news
From: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Subject: Re: Alien Races
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: zoo, soul, love, humour
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 09:39:05 GMT
Lines: 44



Why do the ETs come here?

         >Is Patrick the only one *really* thinking about all this?

Maybe we're all too shy to add our humble thoughts. I know what I think:

1. We are the zoo of the solar system / universe. We're interesting,
sometimes fun, always a good excuse to go on study leave.
This is my favourite idea. (Please do not feed / frighten the "animals")
(It is also backed by some of the abusive postings in this group.)

2. We have a sense of humour (and "they" don't)
Have you ever heard of an ET laughing? We even get some humour in our
newsgroup now and then. (See Colleen's "rapture", 30th October)

3. We have souls (and they don't)
This idea was sparked off by Timothy Good's "Alien Liaison", where he cites a
secret report which says that the greys call us "containers", which the
report interprets as "containers of souls". We discussed this on the net a
month or two ago. (I got a legit. chance to quote from A Course In Miracles)

4. We can experience love (and they can't)
I got this idea from a European video I have, where some ETs (I don't think
they were greys) reportedly told a contactee that their race had concentrated
too much on technology, so that they had forgotten / lost the values we would
call "human". They had come here to study (and interbreed with?) humans in
order to learn agin how to love, which they had now dicovered to be of utmost
importance.

If I reacted to everything I would like to on the net, I'd be posting ten
times as much as John W! - No offence, John :-)

I still like the zoo idea best, but the "love" would be better. WOW - if that
were true! We might even use it a bit more. Wouldn't that be nice?

I'm going to Assisi for a week to see if the love bit works. If I don't come
back, it works. If I come back, it works too. Honest. Try it!

        Love and blessings to you all.                        Paul.

Paul Milsom
[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Diana St.Martin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: rapture
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Oct 92 00:29:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <40f402r=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Amdahl Corporation - Macrocode Development
Lines: 34

In article <40f402r=[e-mail]>, nmt@NSA writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes:
> >
> >         Hey, I've experienced the rapture, (excuse me) the RAPTURE several
> > times and I didn't have to wait for Oct. 28.  Many of us modern folk call it
> > orgasm and it can be heavenly and almost as good as the second coming.  :)
> > Colleen
> > --
> > It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
> > The Crimson Bunion
>
>      Hey you, DEVIL WORSHIPER!!!!!
>
>      At least show some respect regarding other people's belief.  I personally
> never believed that the rapture would occur on the 28th of October.  But,
> if that is what others believed, I just leave it at that.  THERE HAS TO BE
> A LIMIT FOR EVERYTHING.  THERE ARE CERTAIN SUBJECTS THAT ONE CAN NOT JOKE
> ABOUT, and religious belief is certainly one of them.
>      Maybe your parents never taught you anything, but being an adult (or are
> you?????) you should know better than joking in such trashy manner.  Perhaps
> you are just too modern that there is no more moral value left in your head
> which probably is already full of garbage and trash.
>      BE SILENT YOU IMMORAL FOOL!!!!!  I despised creatures like you.  It must
> be creatures like you that create and promote the immorality in the society
> to day, and poison the minds of the youngs.
>
>

NMT raises some most interesting observations.  Especially the statement equating moderism with a lack of moral values.  A most thought inspiring idea.
I have only one question.  WHO APPOINTED YOU JUDGE OF OTHER PEOPLES MORALS??

My advice to you would be to take your narrow mindedness out of A.A.V.

Diana
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12445 alt.alien.visitors:10667 sci.skeptic:33309
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 92 06:39:34 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
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Dear Earthborn: It's the last day of the week and I hope all of your
have had the type of life that you desire. May the wind always be to
your tail.
John Winston.
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 92 06:43:13 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Big Foot Trackers: In case I haven't mentioned it before, Big Foot
love bacon.
John Winston
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 92 06:49:25 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Pyramid People: Wouldn't you just love to get on a jet plane, go
over to the Shensi Provience of China to the city of Sian (population
787,300 in 1960) catch a taxi over to the town of Sien Yang (population
75,000) and take a few picture of the Great Pyramid of Shensi?
John Winston
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Eric W. Ziegast)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.college,alt.religion.kibology,alt.config,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: alt.fan.omar
Date: 31 Oct 1992 12:02:18 -0500
Organization: UUNET Technologies - Falls Church, VA
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Eric W. Ziegast)
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

henrydm@r-h>>Ok, so how does one go about becoming a new group?

thf2@uchicago> This was such a great straight line, I had to let Kibo take it.

It's a Zen thing.

--
Eric Ziegast
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!sml108
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 13:17:18 EST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 28th
Distribution: alt
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One thing's for sure, Don Allen hasn't been seen around here lately!
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: rapture
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <40f402r=[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 18:20:31 GMT
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In article <40f402r=[e-mail]> nmt@NSA writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes:
>>
>>         Hey, I've experienced the rapture, (excuse me) the RAPTURE several
>> times and I didn't have to wait for Oct. 28.  Many of us modern folk call it
>> orgasm and it can be heavenly and almost as good as the second coming.  :)
>> Colleen
>> --
>     BE SILENT YOU IMMORAL FOOL!!!!!  I despised creatures like you.  It must
>be creatures like you that create and promote the immorality in the society
>to day, and poison the minds of the youngs.

Did anyone notice this persons address?

From: nmt@NSA
Subject: Re: rapture
Date: 30 Oct 92 19:25:42 GMT
Organization: ACM Development

Is this "the" NSA?

Jeff-

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Don't Seem Likely
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <stone.720282282@cwis>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 19:38:33 GMT
Lines: 71

In article <stone.720282282@cwis> [e-mail] (Travis Stone) writes:
>
>
>I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
>a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
>fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
>departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
>up.  "Could it be done?" I asked; his reply was that, to knock
>out a running ignition system (spark plugs and whatnot) you
>would need a magnetic field of such enormous strength that it
>should actually crumple the metal body of the car to a noticeable
>degree---"assuming," said he, "that it's being done with ordinary
>magnetic fields like we can produce here, and not some---well,
>we'll call it 'supernatural force'---that we don't know about."

I would imagine that a stationary magnetic field strong enough to saturate
the core of the coil would do it. The big problem here is what without
knowing what kind of fields were involved, it is hard to even guess what
might be needed.

BTW, someone mentioned that the engine block would shield the ignition
system. The ignition system usually sits above the engine block, so
it would act as a shield only is the source were below ground.

>The way he explained it, it seems impossible for a UFO to shut
>down a running motor simply through E&M effects without turning
>the car into a modern-art wadded-up wreck---yet many sane and
>reliable motorists have reported just such a thing happening
>(the stopping, not the wadding).  To my way of thinking, this
>REALLY puts an odd spin on the UFO phenomenon, because I always
>assumed that they were objects which operated by recognizable
>and familiar physical laws through esoteric applications of
>same.

Years ago, when vaccuum tubes were used, something like my HP-48SX
would indeed be impossible. A computer with that much power would
probably occupy a site the size of Washington DC. But through application
of finess, and other physical laws, we now do the same thing with
silicon, and a few 1.5V batteries. If we assume that an alien craft
is advanced to us in the same fashion as my HP-48SX and a vaccuum
tube computer, I think we need postulate no new physics.

>As a disclaimer on the behalf of my friend, I must state that
>neither he nor I claim to be E&M experts, or automotive engineers;
>by virtue of his extensive background in electronics I look
>upon him as a reliable---please note---SOURCE OF OPINION on
>electrical matters who is most likely more conversant and
>knowledgable in these matters than the bulk majority of us who
>read and post to this group, and I thought it would be of some
>technical interest for the alt.alien.visitors "gang" to hear
>the thoughts of such a person upon this puzzling aspect of
>UFO behavior.

To be fair, very few have experience with large moving magnetic fields.
It is difficult to have an informed opinion on matters that are esoteric
even today. Now someone from SLAC or someone involved with NMR might
have a better understanding of these things. They are not properly in
the realm of electronics anyway, although electronics are used for control
purposes.

>Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?
>
>T.R. Stone
>University of Nebraska-Omaha
>Where the quest for Truth (and Tuition Hikes) Never Ends...

Rich

[e-mail]


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Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!rock!taco!echyatt
From: [e-mail] (EDWARD CRAIG HYATT)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 21:53:23 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Subject: Giant Rock Airport.
>becoming invisible would prove it. George then said that turning invisible
>would do just fine. The space person then turned invisible while they
>watched then he became visible again.  George then said, "Would you mind
>John Winston.
>
(above edited)

... and the invisible spaceman must have had invisible fish for dinner,
otherwise you'd see stuffed artichokes floating around at waist level.

--
--------------------
Craig Hyatt
NCSU@Raleigh, NC USA
[e-mail]
--------------------
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Oct 92 23:14:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Lines: 39

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bjoern Tore Sund) writes:
=In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Patrick Chester) writes:
=|> One question about this list. Why are so many different starfaring races
=|> interested in what must be to them a primitive backwater planet. It seems
=|> pretty arrogant for one to think that we, a race that has barely achieved
=|> spaceflight to rank so high on the agendas of 6+ starfaring races.
=
=You are by what you are saying (writing...) making some assumptions,
=which are not necessarily true...;
=
=1. There is a large number of intelligent races in the Universe/Galaxy
=
=2. A race "discovering" earth would have discovered a lot of other worlds,
=   with more interresting races, making the earth un-interresting.

If you read the article I was commenting on, you would notice that it mentions
more than 6 different races "visiting" our planet. I just wanted to know why
we are so "blessed" to attract such attention. I don't believe it is true
so I am asking for more evidence/rationale for such a level of visitations.
Sorry to confuse some people.

=It all depends, doesn't it... The only conclusion to draw is that what
=happens, happens, and there really isn't all that much we can do about
=it, yet...

Well, as long as their tech is understandable to our physics we can build
Orion-class ships and blow them away if they are hostile. Of course if their
tech is so high that it seems like magic (as some people claim to explain some
oddities about UFOs) then we are screwed.

Just some more Deep Thoughts...

--
Patrick Chester            |----------------------------------------------------
[e-mail] |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
Politically Incorrect      |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Future Lunar Colonist      |"The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us
#^%$!! Militarist          |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
(Of the Sun Tzu mentality) |----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495
From: [e-mail] (Opera_Ghost)
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1992 00:57:13 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Patrick Chester) writes:
>One question about this list. Why are so many different starfaring races
>interested in what must be to them a primitive backwater planet. It seems
>pretty arrogant for one to think that we, a race that has barely achieved
>spaceflight to rank so high on the agendas of 6+ starfaring races.
>
>Just wondering.

Actually, the arrogance comes from people that think that humans are so special
that they are the only things worthy of higher-level intellegence in the
universe.  That wasn't a flame towards anyone, just a thought.

I think the purpose of the outside interest would be in History and Sociology.
If you think about it, a historian or socialogist would have a blast if they
could watch a young civilization advance from one age to another. (i.e. early
technology to space age)


Later!
C J Rogers


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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 92 20:40:13 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 26

Subject: Did You See That Spook?
  Right now as I am writing this it is Halloween Night and all of the little
spooks are coming around. Let me tell you about something that happened to
me a few years back that may make you a believer in spooks.
  I and a friend were at a very small town called Cadiz between Barstow and
Needles, Calif. looking at UFOs. We were at a person's house called Marge
Bell who used to live in a small house about 100 yards SW of a filling
station that used to have a sign in front of it saying FLYING SAUCER FILLING
STATION. You could see more UFOs at that place than you could shake a stick
at.  Most of them were Beepers. They call them that because when they came
around all you could see was there light going off and on. When the light
was off at night you couldn't see anything. They looked like fire flies or
lightening bugs at 40 feet away except these things were at least 7 miles
away and they would come right over you at about 500 feet away.
 I came back to this filling station at a later date with another person, late
at light as I was getting some water for my radiator (the station was
closed) and I got in the car. As we were going down the road the person in
the car with me said, "Wow, this is sure a weird place." I then said, "What
do you mean weird it's just like any other place?"  He then said "Did you
see that man on the other side of you when your went over near the rest
rooms?"  I then said that I didn't see anyone.  He told me that the person
was not of this world. a dead person (spook) who had not gone on.  The
spirit was a man of stocky build who walked in a  sort of bent over way of
carrying his body. I checked around later and never did find out who that
man was.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 92 20:46:01 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Subject: Big Foot. Part 6.
  Now we go to Jun 20th, 1985 when Stan has found out that the Big Foot named
Allone has a total of 5 in his family and one more man has shown up in his
group. Sometimes the word Big Foot is spelled Big Foot other times it is
spelled Bigfoot and they never say Bigfeet. This is a conversation first of
all with Allone and Stan then Stan with a young Bigfoot girl; S. Where did
the sixth one come from?  The last time we talked you said there were five
in your family.  A. A man was dropped off last night.   S. I've just got to
ask you. Did he get off of the UFO my family and I saw last night? A. Yes,
he is the mate of the other Rrowe woman.
  The night before, my five grand-children were staying at our home with my
wife and I.  The children were playing in the yard at about ten p.m. when a
flying saucer, UFO, went over.  It had beautiful lights and it came from the
mountain where I had met the Bigfoot people --the Rrowe Family.
  S. Where did they bring the Rrowe man from?
  When I asked this question the Bigfoot man turned to the woman and girl and
I guess they must have blocked me out because I could not hear what they
were saying to each other. Finally he turned back to me.  A. They brought
the Rrowe man from the fifth dimension.  S. Can the Rrowe family go in and
out of other dimensions? A. Yes. S. Can we talk with our mouths. It is
painful for me to talk telepathically.  The last time we talked it made me
weak and sick.
  Allone grinned and spoke in a low gravelly voice that almost sounded to me
like an Irish brogue. He told me that speaking telepathicallly would never
hurt me again.  With that, he laid his hand on my sholdetr and I could feel
a dull ache go through my body. But in a few minutes, I felt wonderful.
End Part 6.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pilchuck!hebron!eskimo!nanook
From: [e-mail] (Robert Dinse)
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: Shielding...
Keywords: Hey, wouldn't....
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
References: <stone.720296427@cwis>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 19:51:25 GMT
Lines: 43

In article <stone.720296427@cwis>, [e-mail] (Travis Stone) writes:
>
>
> Rod B.:  You say "unshielded"; but wouldn't the metal
> body of the car, and the engine block, and all the
> wiring wrapped thereunto act as a pretty potent EM
> shield?  Look at what a crummy chicken-wire "Faraday
> Cage" does to a radio's ability to recieve a signal!...

     I'm not Rod but felt I could address these concerns.

     Not really.  For starters, the ignition module and wiring is OUTSIDE the
block so the block offers no shielding at all.  The metal body of the car
offers some shielding IF the car has a metal body, many modern cars are made
of plastic and fiberglass with just enough metal to provide marginal structural
stability.  Even then the shielding is incomplete.  Complete magnetic shielding
requires a pefect conductor which the metal a car is made from is not.  In fact
the only thing that is is a super-conductor.

     To get an idea how effective the ignition shielding on a typical car is,
park on the shoulder of a busy road and put your radio on AM and tune to an
unused portion of the dial.  Turn up the volume.  You will be able to hear
electromagnetic radiation from the ignition systems of the vast majority of
vehicals that pass you by.

     Shielding effectiveness varies with frequency.  At a sufficiently high
frequency the typical gaps between body pieces would be more than a wavelenth
making shielding rather ineffecient.

     Assuming alien spacecraft really do spit out huge quantities of
electro-magnetic radiation, who knows what frequencies are involved?

> And as for the Coke can: is it being crumpled by merely
> being placed in a magnetic field w/o having wires
> attached to it, or do we have it wrapped like a big
> clunky solenoid?  If these situations are physically
> equivalent, please point out how---my E&M isn't too
> good...

     I thought Coke cans were aluminum these days?  This is to suggest they
might get hot from the Eddy currents induced by a large varying magnetic field
but they shouldn't mechanically crumple.

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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun,  1 Nov 92 06:03:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 40

Subject: Pyramids in China.
   We have mentioned before that there are 16 pyramids in the Shensi Provience
of China around the city of Sian and 7 of these are within the area of the
smaller city of Sien-Yang (which are spread out along a line of about 7
miles).  We have a picture taken of the largest of these pyramids and have a
map made of the area showing the 16 pyramids.  There seems to be a second
story that mentions a pyramid all by itself so here is an explanation of it
given by an American pilot during World War 2; The United States Airforce
flew missions across the Himalayan mountain ranges between India and China,
in order to supply the Chinese armies with food and war materials.  During
one of these missions across so-called  dead man's alley one of the pilots,
James Gaussman, had  the misfortune to have trouble with his aircraft.   One
of the engines started cutting out and this could be a terrifying experience
in this type of country, where the normal weather conditions were such that
if you tried to fly above  the mountains you encountered icing conditions,
and between the mountains you were met with thick fog ond cloud.  Gaussman
figured that the fuel lines of the aircraft were freezing up and although it
was extremely dangerous, he had no  option but to descend to a lower
altitude.  The engines began to run smoothly again and the aircraft was
flown in a hazardous zig-zag fashion thoough the mountain tops.  A rough
flight pattern was carried out that would return him to his base in Assam,
India. In his report to an intelligence officier he said, "I banked to avoid
a mountain and we came out over a level valley.  Directly below was a
gigantic white pyramid. It looked like something out of a fairy tale.  It
was encased in shimmering white.  This could have been metal, or some sort
of stone. It was pure white on all sides.  The remarkable thing  was the
capstone, a huge piece of jewel-like material that could have been crystal.
There was no way we could have londed, although we wanted to. We were struck
by the immensity of the thing.
  Gaussman encircled the pyramid three times then continued his hair-raising
flight towards Assam. He finally sighted the Brahmaputra river below his
plane from which he was able to ascertain his position, and eventually
landed at his home base none the worse from wear. He believes that the world
will be amazed if the pyramid is ever found.
  Now this is me (John Winston) talking.  I have looked for this pyramid on
the new type photographs made by our satilites but the area always seems to
be covered by clouds or fog. I hope someone will be able to go and check
this out.
The End.
John Winston.
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun,  1 Nov 92 06:40:22 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 17

Subject: I'm Serious They Are From Sirius.
  As I have stated in the past I believe that different races on Earth have
come from different places in outter space. It is my opinion that the black,
tall royal looking people in Africa originally came from Sirius. A few days
ago  a friend of mine told me  about a thing that the slaves down in the
south used to do when they were using a hoe to hoe weeds. They would take a
couple of hoes and place them at the ends of the rows, say a prayer then the
hoes by themselves would start to going on their own until they came
together in the center of the field then they would fall to the ground and
then the people would start them again on a new row. While this was going on
the person who was doing this would take it easy under a tree and watch the
hoes go at it.  They would keep a watchful eye out for the master and get to
work if they saw him coming because he usually didn't go for this sort of
stuff.
  I sure could have used this when I was a kid because I've spent a lot of
time on the end of a hoe with the rest of the hired hands.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!fils
From: [e-mail] (Douglas R Fils)
Subject: Re: Dateline NBC & UFOs CLUE #2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1992 17:03:54 GMT
Lines: 54

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:
>> Well,well,
>>
>Perhaps the 'UFO parts list' shown on Dateline is related to this 'UFO'
>project? Maybe them hackers didn't make up those displays? Hmm....
>
>What does UFO stand for? 'Upper <fill in this blank> Observatory'?
>
>>
>> I know it is not sensational, but it is something.
>>
>> I will ask again, has anyone heard about the UFO Atlas launch? See Below:
>>
>>
>>                              =========================
>>                                   SPACE CALENDAR
>>                                 September 27, 1992
>>                              =========================
>>
>> * indicates change from last month's calendar
>>
>>    October 1992
>>      ?? - Galaxy 7 Ariane Launch
>>      ?? - UFO Atlas Launch
>>      04 - 35th Anniversary, Sputnik Launch (1st Satellite ever)
>>      05 - Progress Launch (Soviet)
[much deleted from above]

    I didn't want to try and do this from memory, but I thought
I might as well.  I am sorry to say that UFO is a very earthly project.

U ltra High Frequency  (I love acronyms within acronyms)
F ollow
O n

    I Navy (I think) program to loft some new UHF communication
satellites.  Not quite as interesting as a NASA run extraterrestrial
NAPA store...but I thought it was interesting. I think I have a file
on this less than exciting program hidden in some obscure directory
somewhere if someone desperately want to read about it.

Take care,


Douglas Fils   [e-mail]  | Ego vos hortor tantum possum ut amicitiam
Dept. of Physics and Astronomy   | omnibus rebus humanis anteponatis.
Iowa State University (ISU)      | Cicero,  On Friendship V.17

--

Douglas Fils   [e-mail]  | Ego vos hortor tantum possum ut amicitiam
Dept. of Physics and Astronomy   | omnibus rebus humanis anteponatis.
Iowa State University (ISU)      | Cicero,  On Friendship V.17
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: AURAS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun,  1 Nov 92 06:59:17 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Aura Watchers: I have not been able to find that information
again about Guy Coggins and his camera being in San Jose, Caif. at
a Psychic Fair again but I believe it will happen about the 4th through
the 8th of Nov of this year. I'll keep looking and if anyone finds it
before I do please post it.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: AURAS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun,  1 Nov 92 07:25:29 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Aura People: I just looked at the paper and believe I've found
where Guy Coggins will be with his camera system in Nov. It is the
New Age Renaissance Fair Nov. 14-15 9 to 9 San Jose  Convention Center.
For informaition call 408 448 6726.
I'll keep checking to see if that is the place he will be.
John Winston
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney)
Date: 1 Nov 1992 19:09:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: krusty.caltech.edu
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Robert Dinse) writes:
> > And as for the Coke can: is it being crumpled by merely
> > being placed in a magnetic field w/o having wires
> > attached to it, or do we have it wrapped like a big
> > clunky solenoid?  If these situations are physically
> > equivalent, please point out how---my E&M isn't too
> > good...
>
>      I thought Coke cans were aluminum these days?  This is to suggest
they
> might get hot from the Eddy currents induced by a large varying magnetic
field
> but they shouldn't mechanically crumple.

I posted before on this topic, but I'll repeat the bit about the Coke
cans.  Even though Coke cans are aluminum, they can crumple due to a large
varying magnetic field.  If a wire looped four or five times around the
Coke can is shorted across a huge capacitor (millifarad range) charged to
a few kilovolts, the change in current is so great that a significant
induced current is produced.  The interaction between the original
magnetic field and the induced current's magnetic field causes the induced
current path to try to shrink rapidly, pinching off the center of the Coke
can.

The proximity of the wire is crucial, however, and it's unlikely that the
aliens would wrap a few turns of wire around your car.

--
/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney          | "Well, if we were to build a   |
|                        |           giant badger..."     |
|                        |    - Monty Python and the      |
| [e-mail] |      search for the Holy Grail |
\---------------------------------------------------------/
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: New Book: "Into the Fringe"
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1992 13:56:34 EST
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 8

My brother just wrote and told me about this book, written by Dr. Karla
Turner.  It has a copyright of November 1992, so it really is brand new.  It
has some frightening stories regarding the abductions, potential wars,
opposing alien races, etc.  I have one on order, but it's going to take a
week to 10 days before it comes in.  Just wondered if anyone has seen it or
what they thought about it.

Janet
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Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 1 Nov 1992 14:31:52 CST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: October Surprise
Lines: 6

To all those people predicting an October surprise, October has come
and gone, and yet nothing significant has happened (at least publicly
not including SETI).  So, why has nothing happened?
Later,
Ethan Haslett
[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: "roman andruszko" <[e-mail]>
Subject: alien races?
Message-ID: <1992Nov1.4962.11420@dosgate>
Reply-To: "roman andruszko" <[e-mail]>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 1 Nov 92 11:57:53 EST
Lines: 22

Someone had made the statement;

>One question about this list. Why are so many different starfaring races
>interested in what must be to them a primitive backwater planet. It seems
>pretty arrogant for one to think that we, a race that has barely achieved
>spaceflight to rank so high on the agendas of 6+ starfaring races.


Is it possible that these alien races are interested in the planet
Earth and the life on the Earth as a natual resource. Should they
decide to take over the planet, humans may decide to rebel. Currently
taking bits and pieces may be serving them just fine.



                           ░░░░░ Roman Andruszko ░░▒▒▒▓▓▓▓▓▐▐▐▐▐▐▐
                           ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▒▒▒▓▓▓▓▓▐▐▐▐▐▐▐
---
 ■ DeLuxe²/386 1.25 #7079 ■ I tried the rest but bought the best!!!!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
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From: "roman andruszko" <[e-mail]>
Subject: thanks
Message-ID: <1992Nov1.4962.11421@dosgate>
Reply-To: "roman andruszko" <[e-mail]>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 1 Nov 92 11:57:53 EST
Lines: 16

TO: [e-mail]

Thanks for the informations, I give the guy an echo.

Thanks
[e-mail]



                           ░░░░░ Roman Andruszko ░░▒▒▒▓▓▓▓▓▐▐▐▐▐▐▐
                           ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▒▒▒▓▓▓▓▓▐▐▐▐▐▐▐
---
 ■ DeLuxe²/386 1.25 #7079 ■ Now using Qmail DeLuxe²...and loving it!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
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From: "roman andruszko" <[e-mail]>
Subject: questions
Message-ID: <1992Nov1.4962.11422@dosgate>
Reply-To: "roman andruszko" <[e-mail]>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 1 Nov 92 11:57:53 EST
Lines: 17

TO: [e-mail]

Hello,
        I had recently read a message posted describing some different
types of aliens currently visiting the Earth. I was told that you may
be the source of that letter. The information was interesting, but I'm
curious as to the accuracy of the information. What is the source of
this information, I'm interested in persuing the issues to compile a
data base of different types of aliens. Your assistance is appreciated.

  Roman Andruszko ░░░░░░▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓█████████
  [e-mail]
---
 ■ DeLuxe²/386 1.25 #7079 ■ Now using Qmail DeLuxe²...and loving it!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Xref: icaen misc.misc:8816 talk.politics.misc:106220 alt.alien.visitors:10691 alt.society.futures:497 alt.fan.howard-stern:2778 alt.fan.frank-zappa:2309
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!ross-c
From: [e-mail] (R Clement)
Newsgroups: misc.misc,talk.politics.misc,alt.alien.visitors,alt.society.futures,alt.fan.howard-stern,alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: Participate in a U.S.Presidential STRAW POLL!!
Keywords: monkey turkey donkey house-key ;-)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Nov 92 14:49:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: misc.misc
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
Lines: 28
Originator: ross-c@csparc2

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Phydeaux) writes:
>Announcing a Usenet-wide   United  States  Presidential   straw  poll!
>Anyone  who  reads  this  message is eligible   to cast  his  vote for
>President of the United States in this poll.   You do *not* need to be
>a citizen of the U.S.  to participate!
>
>The poll will be open from now through 12:00noon Pacific Daylight Time
>on October 30, 1992.

*VERY FRIENDLY* (heavy sarcasm) to say that the poll is open to people outside
the US but the polls are only open for two whole days. It takes longer than
that for your posting to propagate around the world.

Let's see what the time is in England when your posting arrived at my site
shall I....

:!date

Sun Nov 1 14:42:56 GMT 1992.

Well, thank you for your *kind* offer.

(The sarcasm may be a bit overdone here, I've seen several other votes etc
where the article didn't arrive until after the closing date).

Cheers,

Ross-c
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12460 alt.alien.visitors:10692 alt.religion.kibology:4410
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From: [e-mail] (Adrian Buss  Sys-Op)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Nov 92 03:14:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: R-node Public Access UNIX Information System (416-249-5366)
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Bigfooters: A posting about Bigfoot (number 5) should be coming
>around the bend soon.
>John Winston. My computer has been on the fritz.

Or even maybe 5 or six copies of it :)

I read them all ...are we bored :)

regards
ziggy



--
[e-mail]  <--- New and impoved fastest route :) USE IT!!
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From: [e-mail] (Chris Mojica)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Aliens.readme
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Nov 92 07:54:57 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Distribution: alt
Organization: North Carolina State University
Lines: 11

The following 3 articles are from an intesting file I picked up on a local bbs.
Would someone, who is an expert in this area, please tell how true any of the
information in it is.  Thanks again, and yes this is my first posting to this
newsgroup.

-Chris

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From: [e-mail] (Chris Mojica)
Subject: Aliens.Part1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Distribution: alt
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 08:01:27 GMT
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THE SECRET GOVERNMENT
The Origin, Identity, and Purpose of MJ-12
By Milton William Cooper
May 23, 1989

PART I
The Truman Years
      During the years following World War 11 the government of
the United States was confronted with a series of events which
were to change its future beyond prediction and with it the
future of humanity. These events were so incredible that they
defied belief. A stunned President Truman and his top Military
Commanders found themselves virtually impotent after having just
won the most devastating and costly war in history. The United
States had developed, used, and to date was the only nation on
earth in possession of the Atomic Bomb which alone had the
potential to destroy any enemy, and even the Earth itself. At
that time the United States had the best economy, the most
advanced technology, the highest standard of living, exerted the
most influence, and fielded the largest and most powerful
military forces in history. We can only imagine the confusion and
concern when the informed elite of the United States Government
discovered that an alien spacecraft piloted by insect-like beings
from a totally incomprehensible culture had crashed in the desert
of New Mexico.

13 Crashed Alien Space Craft in U.S.A.
      Between January 1947 and December 1952 at least 16 crashed
or downed alien craft were recovered with 65 dead alien bodies,
and one living alien. An additional alien craft had exploded but
nothing was recovered from that incident. Of these incidents, 13
occurred within the borders of the United States not including
the craft which disintegrated in the air. Of these 13 craft, one
was found in Arizona, 11 were in New Mexico, and another had
crashed in Nevada. Three incidents also occurred in foreign
countries. Of those, one was in Norway, and the last two were in
Mexico. Sightings of UFO's were so numerous that serious
investigation and debunking of each report became impossible
utilizing the existing intelligence assets.

Above Top Secret Classification
      An alien craft was found on February 13, 1948 on a mesa near
Aztec, New Mexico. Another craft was located on March 25, 1948 in Hart
Canyon near Aztec, New Mexico. It was 100 feet in diameter. A total of
17 alien bodies were recovered from those two craft. Of even greater
significance was the discovery of a large number of human body parts
stored within both of these vehicles. A demon had reared its ugly head
and paranoia quickly took hold of everyone then "in the know". The
'Secret' classification immediately became an 'Above Top Secret' lid
and was screwed down tight. The security blanket was even tighter than
that imposed upon the Manhattan Project which developed the Atomic
Bomb. In the coming years these events were to become the most closely
guarded secrets in the history of the world.
Project SIGN and GRUDGE

      A special group of America's top scientists were organized and
the name "Project SIGN" in December, 1947 to study the phenomenon. The
whole nasty business was contained within the shroud of secrecy.
Project SIGN evolved into Project GRUDGE in December of 1948. A low
level collection and disinformation project called Blue Book was
formed under GRUDGE. Sixteen volumes came out of GRUDGE including the
controversial "GRUDGE 13" which I and Bill English read and revealed
to the public. "Blue Teams" were put together to recover the crashed
disks with living or dead aliens. The Blue Teams eventually evolved
into "Alpha Teams" under Project POUNCE.

Truman Creates CIA by Executive Order

      During these early years the United States Air Force and the CIA
exercised complete control over the 'Alien Secret'. In fact, the CIA
was formed by a Presidential Executive Order■first as the 'Central
Intelligence Group' whose express purpose was to handle the 'alien
presence'. Subsequently, the National Security Act (NSA) was
established to oversee the intelligence community, especially THE
alien endeavor. A series of National Security Council Memos and
Executive Orders removed the CIA from the sole task of gathering
foreign intelligence information, and slowly but thoroughly legalized
the direct action in the form of covert activities at home and abroad.
     On December 9, 1947, President Truman approved issuance of memo
NSC-4, entitled "Coordination of Foreign Intelligence Information
Measures" at the urging of Secretaries Marshall, Forrestal, Patterson,
as well as the Director of the State Department's Policy Planning
Staff, Kennan.

Directive Defines CIA Authority Under NSC-4

      The Foreign and Military Intelligence Book 1, "Final Report of
the Select Committee to Study Governmental operations with respect to
Intelligence Activities", U.S. Senate, 94th Congress, 2nd Session,
Report No. 94-755, April 26, 1976, page 49, stated: "This directive
empowers the Secretary of State to coordinate overseas information
activities designed to counter communism."   A top secret annex to
NSC-4, is NSC-4A which instructed the Director of Central Intelligence
to undertake covert psychological activities in pursuit of the aims
set forth in NSC-4. The initial authority given the CIA for covert
operations under NSC-4A did not establish formal procedures for either
coordination or approving these operations. It simply directed the
Director (of the CIA) "to undertake covert actions and to ensure,
through liaison with the Departments of State and Defense, that the
resulting operations were consistent with American Policy."

Covert Abilities Expanded

      Later NSC-10/1 and NSC-10/2 were to supersede NSC-4 and NSC-4A
and expand their covert abilities even further. The Office of Policy
Coordination (OPC) was chartered to carry out an expanded program of
convert activities. NSC-10/1 and NSC10/2 validated illegal and extra-
legal practices and procedures as being agreeable to the national
security leadership.  The reaction was swift.  In the eyes of the
intelligence community "no holds were barred".  Under NSC-10/1, an
Executive Coordination Group, was established to review (but not
approve) covert project proposals.  The ECG was secretly tasked only
to coordinate alien projects.  NSC-10/1 and NSC-10/2 were interpreted
to mean that no one at the top wanted to know about anything until a
project was over and successful.  These actions established an
effective buffer between the President and the information they
gathered.  It was intended that this buffer serve as a means for the
President to deny knowledge of such activities to the public if leaks
divulged the true state of affairs.  This buffer was used in later
years for the purpose of effectively isolating succeeding Presidents
from any knowledge whatever of the alien presence other than what the
Secret Government and the Intelligence Community wanted him to know.
NSC-10/2 established a study panel which met secretly and was made up
of scientific minds of the day.  The study panel was NOT called MJ-12.
Another NSC memo, NSC-10-5 further outlined the duties of the study
panel.  These NSC memos and secret Executive Orders set the stage for
the creation of MJ-12 which would come along 4 years later.

Secretary of Defense Forrestal Objects to Alien Secrecy

     Secretary of Defense, James Forrestal began to object to the
secrecy since he was a very idealistic and religious man who believed
that the public should be told.  President Truman asked him to resign
his position for divulging to leaders of the opposition party and to
leaders of the Congress the alien problem.  He expressed his fears to
many other people and rightfully believed that he was being watched.
His actions were interpreted by those who were ignorant of the facts
as paranoia.  Forrestal later was said to have suffered a mental
breakdown and was admitted to Bethesda Naval Hospital.  In fact it was
feared that Forrestal would begin to talk again and he had to be
isolated and discredited.  Sometime in the early morning of May 22,
1949 agents of the CIA tied a sheet around his neck, fastened the
other end to a fixture in his room and threw James Forrestal out the
window.  The sheet tore and he plummeted to his death becoming one of
the first victims of a cover-up.

Living Alien Rescued at Roswell, New Mexico, 1949

     The living alien that had been rescued from the 1949 Roswell
crash was named "EBE".  Its name had been suggested by Dr. Vannever
Bush as an acronym for Extra-terrestrial Biological Entity.  EBE had a
tendency to lie and for over a year would give only the expected
answer to questions asked by his interrogators.  Those questions which
would have resulted in an undesirable answer went unanswered.  At some
point during the second year of captivity he began to open up and the
information derived from EBE was startling, to say the least.  This
compilation of his revelations became the foundation of what would
later be called the "Yellow Book".  Photographs were taken of EBE
which, among others, I and Bill English were to view years later in
Project GRUDGE 13.
Alien Biological System Based on Chlorophyll Process

      In late 1951 EBE became very ill and medical personnel had been
unable to determine the cause of his illness as they had no background
about his biological structure from which to draw. EBE's biological
system was chlorophyll based and processed food into energy much the
same as plants did. Waste material was excreted the same as plants.
It was decided that an expert on botany was called for. A botanist,
Dr. Guillermo Mendoza, was brought in to help EBE recover. Dr. Mendoza
worked hard to save his life until EBE died in mid-1952. Dr. Mendoza
became an expert on alien Biology.
Meanwhile in the futile attempt to save EBE and to gain favor with
this technologically superior alien race, the United States began
broadcasting into the vast regions of space a call for help early in
1952. The call went unanswered as EBE's life ebbed away but the
project continued as an effort of good faith.

Truman Creates NSA to Decipher Alien Language

      President Truman created the super secret NSA National Security
Agency by secret Executive Order on November 4, 1952. Its primary
purpose was to decipher the alien's communications and language, and
establish a dialogue with them. This extremely urgent task was a
continuation of an earlier effort and was code named SIGMA. The
secondary purpose of the NSA was to monitor all communications and
transmissions from any and all devices worldwide for the purpose of
gathering intelligence, both human or alien, and to contain the secret
of the alien presence from the public at large. Project SIGMA was
successful. The NSA also maintains communications with the Lunar base
and other Secret Space Programs.

NSA is Above the Law

      By Executive Order the NSA is exempt from all laws which do not
specifically name the NSA in the text of the law as being subject to
that law. That meant that if the agency is not spelled out in the text
of any and every law passed by the U.S.Congress, it is not subject to
any of those laws. The NSA now performs many other duties and in fact
is the premiere agency within the intelligence community. Today NSA
receives 75% of the budget allotted to the total intelligence
community. The old saying "where the money goes therein the power
resides" is true in this case. The primary task of the NSA today is
still alien communications, but now also includes other alien projects
as well. Whereas, the Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) is a
figurehead maintained as a public ruse.

U.S.A. Shares Alien Secret with Soviet Union

      President Truman had been keeping our military allies, including the
Soviet Union, informed of the developing alien problem since the
Roswell recovery. This had been done in case the aliens turned out to
be a threat to the human race. Plans were formulated to defend the
Earth in case of invasion. Great difficulty was encountered in
maintaining international secrecy. It was decided that an outside
group was necessary to coordinate and control international efforts in
order to hide the secret from the normal scrutiny of governments by
the press. The result was the formation of a secret society know as
the "Bilderburgers" whose headquarters is located in Geneva,
Switzerland. The Bilderburgers evolved into a secret world government
that now controls everything, including the World Banking system.
Banking system.  The United Nation was considered then and is now,
an international joke among the elite power structure.

President Eisenhower tackles the Alien Problem

      In 1953 a new man occupied the White House who was used to a
structured staff organization with a chain of command. His method of
command was to delegate authority and rule by committee. He made the
major decisions but only when his advisors were unable to come to a
consensus. His normal method was to read through or listen to several
alternatives and then approve one. Those who worked closely with him
have stated that his favorite comment was, "just do whatever it
takes". He spent a lot of time on the golf course which was not at all
unusual for a man who had been career Army with the ultimate position
of Supreme Allied Commander during World War II.....a position which
carries five stars on it. This President was General of the Army,
Dwight David Eisenhower.
During his first year in office 1953, at least 10 more crashed alien
disks were recovered along with 26 dead and four living aliens. Of
these ten downed craft, four were found in Arizona, two in Texas, one
in New Mexico, one in Louisiana, one in Montana, and one in South
Africa. There were hundreds of disk sightings reported in that year.

Eisenhower and Rockefeller Join Forces

      Eisenhower knew that he had to wrestle and beat the alien
problem. He also knew that he could not do it by revealing the secret
to the U.S.Congress. Early in 1953, the new President turned to his
friend and fellow member of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR),
Nelson Rockefeller for help with the alien problem. Asking Rockefeller
for his assistance with the alien problem was to be the biggest
mistake Eisenhower ever made for the future of the United States and
(probably most of all) for humanity. Eisenhower and Rockefeller began
planning the secret structure of alien task supervision which would
become a reality within a year. The 'matrix' for MJ-12 was thus born.
Why had he turned to Nelson Rockefeller on this sensitive Top Secret
issue? Nelson's Uncle Winthrop Aldrich had been crucial in convincing
Eisenhower to run for President. Consequently, the entire Rockefeller
family brought forth the Rockefeller empire to solidly back Ike.

Rockefeller Appointed Chairman of Advisory Committee

      Within one week of Eisenhower's election he had appointed Nelson
Rockefeller chairman of a Presidential Advisory Committee on
Government Organization. Rockefeller was responsible for planning the
reorganization of the government. New Deal programs went into one
single cabinet position called the Department of Health, Education,
and Welfare. When the Congress approved the new cabinet position in
April of 1953, Nelson was named to the post of Undersecretary under
Oveta Culp Hobby.

Space Visitors Discovered by Astronomers

      In 1953 astronomers discovered large objects in space that were
moving towards the Earth. It was first believed that they were
asteroids. Later astronomical evidence proved that the objects could
only be spaceships. Project SIGMA intercepted alien radio
communication. When the objects reached the Earth they took up a very
high orbit around the equator. There were several huge ships, and
their actual intent was unknown. Project SIGMA and PLATO, a new
project utilizing computer binary language in radio
telecommunications, were able to arrange a landing that resulted in
face to face contact with alien beings from another planet. Project
PLATO was tasked with establishing diplomatic relations with this
alien race of space beings.

Aliens from Plieades Warns U.S. about 'Grays'

      In the meantime, a race of humanoid-looking aliens made contact
with the U.S.Government. This alien group warned us against the aliens
that were orbiting over the Equator and offered to help us with our
spiritual development. They stipulated that we dismantle and destroy
our nuclear weapons systems as the major condition to their offer.
They refused to exchange technology citing that we were spiritually
unable to handle the technology that they possessed at that time. They
believed that we would only use their new technology to destroy each
other. This race stated that we were on a path of self-destruction and
therefore must stop killing each other, stop polluting the planet,
stop raping the Earth's natural resources, and learn to live in
harmony with each other. These terms were met with extreme suspicion,
especially the major condition of nuclear disarmament. It was believed
that meeting that condition would leave us helpless in the face of an
obvious alien threat. We also had nothing in history to help with the
decision. Nuclear disarmament was not considered to be within the best
interest of the United States. Therefore the overtures were rejected.

Aliens from Orion Greet President Eisenhower

      Later in 1954, the race of large nosed Gray Aliens which had
been orbiting the Earth landed at Holloman Air Force Base. A basic
agreement was reached with them. This race identified themselves as
originating from a planet around a red star in the Constellation of
Orion which we call Betelgeuse. They state that their planet was dying
and that at some unknown future time they would no longer be able to
survive there. This led to a second landing at Edwards Air Force Base.
The historical event had been planned in advance and details of the
treaty had been agreed upon. Eisenhower arranged to be in Palm Springs
on vacation. On the appointed day the President spirited away to the
airbase and the excuse was given to the press that he was visiting a
dentist.

Treaty signed with Alien Nation Ambassador Krill
      President Eisenhower met with the aliens and a formal treaty was
signed between the U.S.A and the Alien Nation. We then received our
first Alien Ambassador from outer space whose name and title were "His
Omnipotent Highness Krill", (pronounce "Krill"). In the American
tradition of disdain for royal titles, he was secretly called the
"Original Hostage Krill". You should also know that the alien's flag
is known at the "Trilateral Insignia". It is displayed on their craft
and worn on their uniforms. Both of these landings and second meeting
were filmed which exist today in some vault.
      The Treaty stated: the aliens would not interfere in our affairs
and we would not interfere in theirs. We would keep their presence on
earth a secret. They could furnish us with advanced technology and
would help us in our technological development. They would not make
any treaty with any other earth nation. They could abduct humans on a
limited and periodic basis for purpose of medical examination and
monitoring of our development with the stipulation that humans would
not be harmed, would be returned to their point of abduction, that the
humans would have no memory of the event, and that the alien nation
would furnish MJ-12 with a list of all human contacts and abductees on
a regularly scheduled basis. It was agreed that each nation would
receive the Ambassador of the other for as long as the treaty remained
in force. It was further agreed that the alien nation and the United
States would exchange 16 personnel with each other for the purpose of
learning more about one another.


Alien Personnel Exchanged & Underground Base Constructed

      The Alien "Guests" would remain on Earth and the human "Guests"
would travel to the Alien's point of origin for a specified period of
time and then return exchanging personnel to their home planet. It was
also agreed that bases would be constructed underground for the use of
the Alien nation. And 2 bases would be constructed for the joint use
of the Alien nation and the United States Government. Exchange of
technology would take place in the jointly occupied bases. These alien
bases would be constructed under Indian reservations in the four
corners area of Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, and Colorado. Another one
would be constructed in Nevada within the area known as S-4 located
approximately seven miles south of the western border of Area 51 known
as Dreamland. All alien bases are under complete control of the Naval
Department and all personnel who work in these complexes received
their paychecks from the Navy. Construction of the bases began
immediately but progress was slow until larger amounts of money were
made available in 1957. Work continued on the "Yellow Book" compiling
historical and sociological data about the alien culture.

Alien Space Craft Tested In Nevada: Project REDLIGHT

      Meanwhile, Project REDLIGHT was formed and experimentation of
test flying alien-like aircraft was begun in earnest. A super TOP
SECRET facility was built at Groom Lake, Nevada in the midst of the
weapons testing range. It was code-named, DREAMLAND. The installation
was placed under the Department of the Navy and clearance of all
personnel required a "Q" clearance as well as Executive (Presidential)
Approval. This is ironic due to the fact that the President of the
United States does not have clearance to visit the site. The alien
base and exchange of technology actually took place in an area known
as S-4, and was code-named, "The Dark Side of the Moon". (Remember the
movie. . . Close Encounters of the Third Kind ?)
     The Army was tasked to form a super secret organization to
furnish security for all alien tasked projects. This organization
became the National Reconnaissance Organization based at Fort Carson,
Colorado. The specific teams trained to secure the projects were
called DELTA teams.  A second project code-named SNOWBIRD was
promulgated to explain away any sightings of the REDLIGHT crafts as
being Air Force experiments. The SNOWBIRD crafts were manufactured
using conventional technology and were flown for the press on several
occasions. Project SNOWBIRD was also used to debunk legitimate public
sightings of alien (UFO) craft. Project SNOWBIRD was very successful
and reports from the public declined steadily until recent years.

Secret Fund Finances 75 Underground Bases in USA

      A multi-million dollar Secret Fund was organized and kept by the
Military Office of the White House. This fund was used to build over
75 deep underground facilities. Presidents who asked about it were
told the fund was used to build Deep Underground Shelters for the
President in case of war. However, only a few were built for the
President. Millions of dollars were funnelled through this office to
MJ-12 and then out to the contractors and was used to build TOP SECRET
alien bases as well as TOP SECRET DUMB (Deep Underground Military
Bases), and the facilities promulgated by "Alternative 2", throughout
the nation. President Johnson used this fund to build a movie theater
and pave the road on his ranch. He had no idea of its true purpose.
     The location and everything to do with these sites are considered
and treated as TOP SECRET. The money was and is in control of the
Military Office of the White House; it was and is laundered through a
circuitous web that even the most knowledgeable spy or accountant
could not follow. As of 1980 only a few at the beginning and the end
of this financial web knew what this money was for. At the beginning
were Representative George Mahon, of Texas, the Chairman of the House
Appropriation Committee and of its Defense Subcommittee; and
Representative Robert Sikes, of Florida, Chairman of the House
Appropriations Military Construction Subcommittee. Today it is rumored
that House Speaker Jim Wright controls the money in Congress and that
a power struggle is underway to remove him from power. At the end of
the line was the President, the Director of the Military Office, a
Commander at the Washington Navy Yard, and the MJ-12.
     The money was authorized by the Appropriation Committee who
allocated funds to the Department of Defense as a TOP SECRET item in
the Army construction program. The Army, however, could not spend it
and in fact did not even know of its intended purpose. Authorization
to spend the money was in reality given to the Navy. The money was
channeled to the Chesapeake Division of the navy Engineers who did not
know its purpose either. Not even the Commanding Officer, who as an
Admiral, know what the fund was for. Only one man, a Navy Commander,
who was assigned to the Chesapeake Division but in reality was
responsible only to the Military office of the White House knew of its
actual purpose, amount, and ultimate destination of the TOP SECRET
fund. The total secrecy surrounding the fund meant that almost every
trace of it could be made to disappear by the very group who
controlled it. There has never been and most likely never will be an
audit of this secret fund.
     Large amounts of money were transferred from the TOP SECRET fund
to a location at Palm Beach, Florida that belongs to the Coast Guard
called Peanut Island. The island is adjacent to property which was
owned by Joseph Kennedy. The money was said to have been used for
landscaping and general beautification. Some time ago a TV news
special on the Kennedy assassination told of a Coast Guard Officer
transferring money in a briefcase to a Kennedy employee across this
property line. Could this have been a secret Payment to the Kennedy
family for the loss of their son, John F. Kennedy? The payments
continued through the year 1967 and then stopped. The total amount
transferred is unknown and the actual use of the money is also
unknown.

Rockefeller assumes post as Cold War Strategist

       Meanwhile, Nelson Rockefeller changed positions again. This
time he was to take C.D. Jackson's old position which had been called
the Special Assistant for Psychological Strategy. With Nelson's
appointment the name was changed to the Special Assistant for Cold War
Strategy. This position would evolve over the years into the same
position Henry Kissinger was ultimately to hold under President Nixon.
Officially he was to give "Advice and assistance in the development of
increased understanding and cooperation among all people". The
official description was a smoke screen for secretly he was the
Presidential Coordinator for the Intelligence Community. In his new
post, Rockefeller reported directly, and only, to the President. He
attended meetings of the Cabinet, the Council on Foreign Economic
Policy, and the National Security Council which was the highest
policy-making body in the government.

NSC-5410 Memo defines Scope of Majority Twelve

       Nelson Rockefeller was also given a second important job as the
head of a secret unit called the Planning Coordination Group which was
formed under NSC 5412/1 in March of 1955. The group consisted of
different ad hoc members depending on the subject of the agenda. The
basic members were Rockefeller, a representative of the Department of
State, and the Director of Central Intelligence Agency. It was soon
called the "5412 Committee" or the "Special Group". NSC 5412/1
established the rule that covert operations were subject to approval
by an executive committee, whereas in the past these operations were
initiated solely on the authority of the Director of Central
Intelligence.
     In 1954 by secret Executive Memorandum, NSC 5410, Eisenhower had
preceded NSC 5412/1 to establish a permanent committee (not ad hoc) to
be known as Majority Twelve (MJ-12) to oversee and conduct all covert
activities concerned with the alien question. NSC 5412/1 was created
to explain the purpose of these meetings when Congress and the Press
became curious. Majority Twelve was made up of Nelson Rockefeller, the
Director of the CIA Allen Welsh Dulles, the Secretary of Defense
Charles E. Wilson, The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral
Arthur W. Radford, the Director of the FBI J.Edgar Hoover, and six men
from the executive committee of the Council on Foreign Relations known
as the "Wise Men. These men were all members of a secret society of
scholars that called themselves "The Jason Society", or "The Jason
Scholars" who recruited their members from the "Skull and Bones" and
the "Scroll and Key" societies of Harvard and Yale, respectively.

Key members from the Jason Scholars, Secret Society

      The "Wise Men" were key members of the Council on Foreign
Relations. The membership totalled twelve which included six
individuals from governmental positions thus the name, Majority
Twelve. This group was made up over the years of the top officers and
directors of the Council on Foreign Relations and later on from the
Trilateral Commission. Notable names as Gordon Dean, George Bush, and
Zbigniew Brzezinski were among them. The most important and
influential of the "Wise Men" who served on MJ-12 were John McCloy,
Robert Lovett, Averell Harriman, Charles Bohlen, George Kennan, and
Dean Acheson. It is significant to recall that President Eisenhower as
well as the first six MJ-12 members from government state departments
were also members of the Council on Foreign Relations.
      Thorough researchers will soon discover that not all the "Wise
Men" attended Harvard or Yale and not all of them were chosen from
"Skull and Bones" or "Scroll and Key" memberships during their college
years. You will be able to quickly clear up this mystery by obtaining
the book The Wise Men by Walter Isaacson and Evan Thomas, Simon and
Schuster, New York. Under illustration #9 in the center of the book
you will find the caption "Lovett with the Yale Unit, above far right,
and on the beach: His initiation into Skull and Bones came at an
airbase near Dunkirk". I have found that members were chosen on an
ongoing basis by invitation based upon merit post college and was not
confined to only Harvard or Yale Grads.
     A chosen few were later initiated into the Jason Society. They
are all members of the Council on Foreign Relations and at that time
were known as the "Eastern Establishment". This should give you a clue
to the far reaching and serious nature of these very secret college
societies. The Jason Society is alive and well today, and now includes
members within the Trilateral Commission as well. The Trilateralists
existed secretly several years before 1973. The name of the Trilateral
Commission as you remember was taken from the alien's flag insignia
known as the "Trilateral Insignia".

MJ-12 Known Under Many Names

      Majority Twelve was to survive right up to the present day.
However, under Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy it was erroneously
called the "5412 Committee"; more correctly, it was called the
"Special Group". In the Johnson administration it became known as the
"303 Committee" because the name 5412 had been compromised in the book
The Secret Government. Actually NSC5412/1 was leaked to the author to
hide the existence of NSC 5410. While under Nixon, Ford, and Carter
the Special Group was called the "40 Committee". And under Reagan, it
became the "PI40 Committee". Over all those years its purpose remained
the same, only the name changed.

Aliens Break Treaty, Mutilate Human Bodies, 1955

      By 1955 it became obvious that the aliens had deceived
Eisenhower and had broken the treaty. Mutilated humans were being
found along with mutilated animals all across the United States. It
was suspected that the aliens were not submitting a complete list of
human contacts and abductees to "MJ-12" as agreed by Treaty, and it
was suspected that not all abductees had been returned. The Soviet
Union was suspected of interacting with them and this proved to be
true. It was learned that the aliens had been and were continuing to
manipulate masses of people through the occult movement, various
cults, secret societies, witchcraft, magic, and religions. After
several Air Force combat air engagements with alien craft, it became
blatantly apparent that our weapons were no match against their
technology.
      Subsequently, in November of 1955 Eisenhower issued NSC-5412/2
establishing a study committee to explore "all factors which are
involved in the making and implementing of foreign policy in the
nuclear age." This was only a blanket of snow that covered the real
subject of intense scrutiny on the alien question.

NSC-5412/2 Creates Contingency Plan to Study Alien Problem

      By secret Executive Memorandum, NSC-5411 (1954), Eisenhower had
commissioned the study group to "examine all the facts, evidence,
lies, and deception and discover the truth of the alien question."
NSC-5412/2 was only a cover that had become necessary when the press
began inquiring as to the purpose of regular meetings of such
important men. The first meetings began at Quantico Mafine Base. The
study group was made up of 35 members of the Council on Foreign
Relations, secret scholars known as the "Jason Society" or the "Jason
Scholars". Dr. Edward Teller was invited to participate. Dr. Zbigniew
Brzezinski was the study director for the first 18 months. Dr. Henry
Kissinger was chosen as the group's study director for the second 18
months. Nelson Rockefeller was a frequent visitor during the study.

                        THE STUDY GROUP MEMBERS

                    Gordon Dean, Chairman
Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Study Director■1st Phase
Dr. Henry Kissinger, Study Director■2nd Phase

Dr. Edward Teller
Maj.Gen. Richard C. Lindsay
Mr. Hanson W. Baldwin
Maj.Gen. James McCormack, Jr.
Mr. Frank C. Nash
Mr. Paul H. Nitze
Mr. Charles P. Noyes
Mr. Frank Pace, Jr.
Mr. James A. Perkins
Mr. Don K. Price
Mr. David Rockefeller
Mr. Oscar M. Ruebhausen
Lt. Gen. James M. Gavin
Mr. Caryl P. Haskins
Mr. James T. Hill, Jr.
Mr. Joseph E. Johnson





















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From: [e-mail] (Chris Mojica)
Subject: Aliens.Part2
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Mr. MeNin J. Kelly

Mr. Frank Altschul
Mr. Hamilton Fish Armstrong
Mr. Lloyd V. Berkner
Mr. Robert R. Bowie
Mr. McGeorge Bundy
Mr. William A.M.Burden
Mr. John C. Campbell
Mr. Thomas K. Finletter
Mr. George S. Franklin, Jr.
Mr. I.I. Rabi
Mr. Roswell L. Gilpatric
Mr. N.E. Halaby
Mr. Gen. Walter Bedell Smith
Mr. Henry DeWolf Smyth
Mr. Shields Warren
Mr. Carrol L. Wilson
Mr. Arnold Wolfers

Second Phase Meeting of 'Study Group'

      The second phase meetings were also held at the Marine Base at
Quantico, Virginia and the group became known as Quantico 11. Nelson
Rockefeller built a retreat somewhere in Maryland for MJ-12 and the
study committee that could only be reached by air so that they could
meet away from public scrutiny. This secret meeting place is known by
the code name "The Country Club". Complete living, eating, recreation,
library, and meeting facilities exist at the location.
     The study group was "publicly" closed in the latter months of
1956 and Henry Kissinger published what was officially termed the
results in 1957 as "Nuclear Weapons and Foreign Policy" by Henry
Kissinger, published for the Council on Foreign Relations by Harper &
Brothers, New York. In truth the manuscript had already been 80%
written while Kissinger was at Harvard. The study group continued
veiled in secrecy. A clue to the seriousness Kissinger attached to the
study can be found in statements by his wife and friends. Many of them
stated that Henry would leave home early each morning and return late
each night without speaking to anyone or responding to anyone. It
seemed as if he were in another world which held no room for anyone
else.
     These statements are very revealing into the nature of Henry's
personal dilemma. The revelations of the alien presence and their
actions during the study must have been a great shock to his reality
system. Henry Kissinger was definitely out of character during the
time surrounding there meetings. He would never again be affected in
this manner no matter the seriousness of any subsequent event. On many
occasions he would work very late into the night after having already
put in a full day. This behavior eventually led to divorce.

Major Finding resulted from Alien Study: Economic Collapse

      A major finding of the alien study was that the public could not
be told since it was believed that this knowledge most certainly would
lead to economic collapse, collapse of the religious structure, and
national panic which would lead into anarchy. Secrecy thus was
continued. An offshoot of this finding was that if the public could
not be told then the Congress could not be told either; thus funding
for the projects and research would have to come from outside normal
government channels. In the meantime money was to be obtained from the
military budget and from CIA confidential non-appropriated funds.

Second Major Finding: Genetic Experiments upon Humans

      Another major finding was the aliens were using humans and
animals for sources of glandular secretions, enzymes, hormonal
secretions, and blood, as well as in horrible genetic experiments. The
aliens explained these actions as necessary to their survival. They
stated that their genetic structure had deteriorated and that they
were no longer able to reproduce. They also stated that if they were
unable to improve their genetic structure their race would soon cease
to exist. We looked upon their explanations with extreme suspicion.

Current Weapon Technology Useless against Aliens

      Since our weapons were literally useless against the aliens
MJ-12 decided to continue friendly diplomatic relations with them
until such time as we were able to develop a technology which would
enable us to challenge them on a military basis. Overtures would have
to be made to the Soviet Union, and other nations, to join forces for
the survival of humanity. In the meantime plans were developed to
research and construct two weapons systems using conventional and
nuclear technology which would hopefully bring us to parity.
     The results of the research were Projects JOSHUA and EXCALIBUR.
Joshua was a weapon captured from the Germans which at that time was
capable of shattering four inch thick armor plate at a range of two
miles using low frequency sound waves. It was believed that this
weapon would be effective against the alien craft and their beam
weapons. Excalibur was a weapon carried by missile not to exceed
30,000 feet AGL, not to deviate from designated target more that 50
meters, would penetrate 1,000 meters of tufa hard packed soil such as
that found in New Mexico, would carry a one megaton warhead, and was
intended for use in destroying the aliens in their underground bases.
Joshua was developed successfully but never used to my knowledge.
Excalibur was not pushed until recent years, and now there is an
unprecedented effort to develop this weapon.

Vatican Archives reveals 'End Times' Prophecy True

      The events at Fatima in the early part of the century were
scrutinized. On suspicion that it was alien manipulation, an
intelligence operation was put into motion to penetrate the secrecy
surrounding the event. The United States utilized its Vatican moles
that had been recruited and nurtured during WWII and soon obtained the
entire Vatican study which included the prophecy. This prophecy stated
that if man did not turn from evil and place himself at the feet of
Christ, the planet would self-destruct and the events described in the
book of Revelations would indeed come to pass. It stated that a child
would be born who would unite the world with a plan for world peace
and initiate a false religion beginning in 1992. By 1995 the people
would discern that he was evil and was indeed linked with the
Anti-Christ. World War III would begin in the Middle East in 1995 with
an invasion of Israel by the United Arab nations using conventional
weapons which would culminate in a nuclear holocaust in the latter
part of 1999. Between 1999 and the year 2003 most of life on the
planet Earth would suffer horribly and die as a result. The return of
the Christ would occur in the year 2011.

Aliens Confronted with Biblical Prophecy

      When the aliens were confronted with this finding they confirmed
that it was true. (The reader is cautioned to remember that the
alien's hidden agenda is support by lying.) The aliens further
explained that they had created the human species through
hybridization and had manipulated the human race historically through
religion, satanism, witchcraft, magic and other occult movements. They
further purported that they were capable of time travel and the events
would indeed come to pass according to the text in Revelations if the
current trends and attitudes persist. Later exploitation of alien
technology by the United States and the Soviet Union utilizing time
travel confirmed the prophecy. The aliens showed a hologram which they
claimed was the actual crucifixion of Christ and allowed the
government to film.
     We didn't know whether to believe them or not. Were they using
genuine religions to manipulate us? Or, were they indeed the source of
our religions with which they have been manipulating us all along? Was
this the beginning of the genuine END TIMES and the RETURN OF CHRIST
which has been predicted in the Bible? No one knew the answer.
      A symposium was held in 1957 which was attended by some of the
greatest scientific minds living then. They reached the conclusion
that by the end of the century or shortly after the year 2,000 the
planet would self-destruct due to increased population and man's
exploitation of the environment without any help from God or the
aliens.

Jason Scholars are asked to develop Alternative Scenario

      By secret Executive Order of President Eisenhower, the Jason
Scholars were ordered to study this scenario and make recommendations
called "Alternatives 1, 2, & 3." Alternative One was the use of
nuclear devices to blast holes in the Stratosphere from which the heat
and pollution would escape into space. Change the human cultures from
that of exploitation into cultures of environmental protection. Of the
three this was decided to be the least likely to succeed due to the
inherent nature of man and the additional damage the nuclear
explosions would themselves create. Alternative Two was to build a
vast network of underground cities and tunnels in which a select
representation of all cultures and occupations would survive and carry
on the human race. The rest of humanity would be left to fend for
themselves on the surface of the planet. Alternative Three was to
exploit the alien and conventional technology in order for a select
few to leave the earth and establish colonies in outer space. I am not
able to either confirm nor deny the existence of "Batch Consignments"
of human slaves which would be used for the manual labor in the effort
as part of the plan.
     The Moon, code named "Adam" would be the object of primary
interest followed by the planet Mars, code named "Eve". As a delaying
action, all three alternatives would include birth control,
sterilization, and the introduction of deadly microbes to control or
slow the growth of the Earth's population. AIDS virus is only ONE
result of these plans. There are other contingencies at work. It was
decided since the population must be reduced and controlled that it
would be in the best interest of the human race to rid ourselves of
the undesirable elements of our society. The joint U.S. and Soviet
leadership dismissed Alternative One, but ordered work to begin on
Alternatives Two and Three virtually at the same time.

Rand Corporation Symposium on Underground Shelters

      In 1959 the Rand Corporation hosted a Deep Underground
Construction Symposium. In the Symposium report, machines are pictured
and described which would bore a tunnel 45 feet in diameter at the
rate of 5 feet per hour. It also displays pictures of huge tunnels and
underground vaults containing what appear to be complex facilities and
possibly even cities. It appears that in the previous five years an
all-out underground construction effort had made significant progress
by that time.

ILLegal Drug Markets become Financial Resource for CIA

      The ruling powers decided that one means of funding the alien
connection or other black market projects was to corner the illegal
drug market. A young ambitious member of the Council on Foreign
Relations was approached with this concept. He was president and
C.E.O. of Zapata Oil Co. based in Texas. George Bush is his name.
Zapata Oil was experimenting with the new technology of offshore
drilling. It was correctly thought that the drugs shipped from South
America to offshore platforms by fishing boats could be brought ashore
by the normal transportation route used for supplies and personnel. By
this method no customs or law enforcement agency would subject the
cargo to search procedures. George Bush agreed to help and organized
the operation in conjunction with CIA support. The plan worked better
than anyone had ever anticipated and has since expanded worldwide.
There are now many other methods of bringing the illegal drugs into
the country. It must always be remembered that George Bush began the
sale of drugs to our children. Regardless of the present day media
hype campaign to "Just Say No! to Drugs", our country's Drug Czar is
George Bush. The CIA now controls all the world's illegal drug
markets.
PART 2

President Kennedy Discovers Separate Space Program

      The "Official" Space Program was boosted by President Kennedy in
his inaugural address when he mandated that the United States put a
man on the moon before the end of the decade. Although innocent in its
conception this mandate enabled those in charge to funnel vast amounts
of money into black market projects and conceal the genuine space
program from the American People. A similar program in the Soviet
Union served the same purpose. In fact, a joint alien, Soviet Union
and United States lunar base already existed on the moon at the very
moment Kennedy spoke the words. On May 22, 1962 a space probe landed
on Mars and confirmed the existence of an environment which could
support life. Not long afterward the construction of a colony on the
planet Mars began in earnest. Today cities exist on Mars populated by
specifically selected people from different cultures and occupations
taken from all over the Earth. A public charade of antagonism between
the Soviet Union and United States has been maintained over all these
years in order to fund projects in the name of National Defense when
in fact we are the closest allies.

President Kennedy Threatens to Expose the Alien Secret

      At some point President Kennedy discovered portions of the truth
concerning the drugs and the aliens. He issued an ultimatum in 1963 to
MJ-12. President Kennedy assured them that if they did not clean up
the drug problem, he would. He informed MJ-12 that he intended to
reveal the presence of aliens to the American people with the
following year and ordered a plan developed to implement his decision.
President Kennedy was not a member of the Council on Foreign Relations
and knew nothing of "Alternative 2" or "Alternative 3".
Internationally the operations were supervised by MJ-12 and in the
Soviet Union by its sister organization. President Kennedy's decision
struck fear into the hearts of those in charge. His assassination was
ordered by the Policy Committee and the order was carried out by
agents of MJ-12 in Dallas.

President Kennedy Is Assassinated In Dallas

      President John F. Kennedy was murdered by the Secret Service
Agent who drove his car in the motorcade and the act is plainly
visible in the film. WATCH THE DRIVER and NOT KENNEDY when you view
the film. All of the witnesses who were close enough to the car to see
William Greer shoot Kennedy were themselves all murdered within the
next two years of the event. The Warren Commission was a farce and
Council on Foreign Relations members made up the majority of its
panel. They succeeded in snowing the American People. Many other
patriots who attempted to reveal the alien secret have also been
murdered throughout the intervening years.

Alien Moon Base Discovered by Apollo Astronauts

      During the era of the United States initial space exploration,
the Moon base dubbed "Luna" was sighted and filmed by the Apollo
Astronauts. Domes, spires, tall round structures which look like
silos, huge "T" shaped mining vehicles which left stitch-like tracks
in the lunar surface, and extremely large as well as small alien craft
appear in the photographs. It is a joint United States, Russian and
Alien Lunar Base. The Space Program is a farce and an unbelievable
waste of money. "Alternative 3" is a reality and is not at all a
science fiction fantasy. Most of the Apollo Astronauts were severely
shaken by this experience and their lives and subsequent statements
reflect the depth of the revelation and the effect of the muzzle order
which followed. They were ordered to remain silent or suffer extreme
penalty, death, which was termed an "expediency". One astronaut
actually did talk to the British producers of the TV expose
"Alternative 3" confirming many of the allegations.

Astronaut Goes on Record exposes Alternative 3

      In the book Alterative 003 under the pseudonym, "Bob Grodin",
the astronaut concealed his identity. It was also stated that he
committed suicide in 1978. This cannot be validated by any source and
I believed that several so-called facts in the book are really
disinformation. I firmly believed that this disinformation is a result
of pressure put upon authors and is meant to nullify the effect upon
the viewers of the British TV expose' "Alterative 3". The headquarters
of the international conspiracy is in Geneva, Switzerland. The ruling
body is made up of representatives of the Governments involved as well
as the Executive members of the group known as the "Bilderburgers".
Meetings are held by the "Policy Committee" when necessary on a
Nuclear Submarine beneath the Polar Ice Cap. The secrecy is such that
this was the only method which would ensure that the meetings would
not be bugged. I can say that the book is at least 70% true from my
own knowledge and the knowledge of my sources. I believe that the
disinformation was an attempt to compromise the British TV expose with
information which could be proven false, just as the "Eisenhower
Briefing Document" was released here in the United States under the
contingency plan "Majestic twelve", and which can also be proven
false.

Alien Technology Given to U.S. Scientists

      Since our interaction with the aliens began, we have come into
possession of technology beyond our wildest dreams. A craft named
"Aurora" exists at Area 51 which makes regular trips into space. It is
a single stage ship called a TAV (transatmospheric vehicle) and can
take off from the ground using a 7 mile runway; go into high orbit;
return on its own power; and land on the same runway. We currently
have and fly atomic powered alien type craft at Area S-4 in Nevada.
Our pilots have made interplanetary voyages in these craft. The public
has been lied to about the true nature of the Moon, the planets■Mars
and Venus, and the real state of technology that we possess at this
very moment.

Moon Atmosphere Supports Life

      There are areas on the Moon where plant life grows and even
changes color with the seasons. This seasonal effect is because the
Moon does not, as claimed, always present the exact same side to the
earth or the sun. There is an area that wobbles in and out of darkness
on a seasonal basis and it is near this area that the plant life
grows. The Moon does have a few man-made lakes and ponds upon its
surface. Clouds have also been observed and filmed in its atmosphere.
It possesses a gravitational field and a human can walk upon its
surface without a space suit breathing from an oxygen bottle after
undergoing decompression the same as any deep sea diver would need to
do. I have seen the photographs of the lunar surface some of which
were actually published in the book, We Discovered Alien Bases on the
moon by Fred Steckling.

Human vs. Alien Confrontation in Underground Lab

      In 1969 a confrontation broke out between the human scientists
and the aliens at the Dulce underground lab. The aliens took many of
our scientists hostage. Delta Forces were sent in to free them but
were no match against the alien weapons. Sixty-six of our people were
killed during this action. As a result, we withdrew from all joint
projects for at least 2 years. A reconciliation eventually took place
and once again we began to interact. Today the alliance continues.

President Nixon Forced to Resign by MJ-12

      When the Watergate scandal broke, President Nixon had intended
to ride out the storm; confident that he could not be impeached.
However, MJ-12 had a different agenda. The intelligence community
rightfully concluded that an impeachment trial would open up the files
and bare the awful secrets to the public eye. Nixon was ordered to
resign. He refused and so the first military coup in U.S history took
place. The Chiefs of Staff sent a TOP SECRET message to the Commanders
of all the U.S. armed forces throughout the world. It stated, "Upon
receipt of thiS message you will no longer carry out any orders from
the White House. Acknowledge receipt." This message was sent a full 5
days before Nixon conceded and announced publicly that he would
resign. I personally saw this message. When I asked my commanding
officer what he would do as obviously the order violated the
Constitution, I was told, "I guess I will wait to see if any orders
come from the White House and then I will decide." I did not see any
communication from the White House but that does not mean that none
was sent.
      During all the years that this has been happening, the Congress
and the American people seemed have known that something was not
right. When the Watergate scandal surfaced they jumped on the
bandwagon and everyone thought that the agencies would be cleaned out.
President Ford organized the Rockefeller Commission to do the job. At
least that is what everyone thought. His real purpose was to head off
the Congress and keep the coverup going. Nelson Rockefeller who headed
the Commission investigating the intelligence community is a member of
the Council on Foreign Relations and was the one who helped Eisenhower
build the MJ-12 power structure. Rockefeller uncovered only enough to
keep the hounds at bay. He threw the Congress a few bones and the
cover-up rolled merrily along as always.

Special Commission Covers Up Top Secret Facts

      Later Senator Church would conduct the famous Church Hearings.
He also was a prominent member of the Council on Foreign Relations and
He only repeated the Rockefeller act. Again the cover-up prevailed.
When the Iran Contra controversy came along we thought this time the
truth had to come gushing out. Wrong again. Despite mountains of
documents that pointed to drug smuggling and other hidden monsters,
the cover-up sailed through. The congress even seemed to go out of its
way to duck the issues that were just under the surface. Could it be
that Congress knows the whole thing and won't tough it? Are they among
the select who have been picked for the Mars Colony when the Earth
begins to destruct?

Vast Financial Network Hides CIA Funding

      I cannot even begin to outline the entire financial empire
controlled by the CIA, the NSA, and the Council on Foreign
Relations■that are controlling and laundering money from drugs and
other intelligence community proprietary ventures. I can tell you the
little that I know. The amount of money is beyond anything you can
imagine hidden within vast networks of international banks and holding
companies. You should first begin to look at the J.Henry Schroder
Banking Corporation, the Schroder Gerbruder and Company, Schroders
Limited (London), Helbert Wagg Holdings, Ltd., J.Henry Schroder-Wagg &
Co. LTD, the Schroder Trust Company (Germany), Schroder Munchmeyer
Hengst and Company, Castle Bank and its holding companies, the Asian
Development Bank, and Nugan Hand octopus of banks and holding
companies.

False Trail Created as Contingency Plan

      A contingency plan was formulated by MJ-12 to throw everyone off
the trail should any query come close to the truth. The plan was known
as MAJESTIC TWELVE. It was implemented with the release by Moore,
Shandera, and Friedman of the purported genuine "Eisenhower Briefing
Document". The reference document is a fraud. It lists the Executive
Order as #092447. A number which does not exist and will not exist for
quite a long time at the present rate. President Truman wrote
Executive Orders in the 9,000 range, Eisenhower wrote in the 10,000
range, Ford was up to the 11,000 bracket, and Ronald Reagan got only
into the 12,000 numbers. Executive
Orders are numbered consecutively, no matter who occupies the white
House for reasons of continuity, record keeping, and to prevent
confusion. The Executive Order is only one of several fatal flaws
contained within the document. The plan so far has thrown the entire
research community off the trail for several years and has resulted in
the wasted expenditure of money looking for information which does not
exist. It resulted in the total waste of a grant by the Fund for UFO
Research of $16,000 which was given to Stanton Friedman to carry on
research. Many thousands of man hours have gone into looking for a
"red herring". If you doubt the secret government's ability to run you
through the rose garden, you had better think again.

Contingency Plan Prepares Public for Alien Encounter

      Another aspect of the contingency plans is in force and working
upon you today. It is designed to prepare the public for eventual
confrontation with the alien race. The public is being bombarded with
movies, radio, advertising, and television depicting almost every
aspect of the true nature of the alien presence. This includes both
the good and the bad image. The Special Group is making funding and
financial backing available to television and movie productions with
this central theme. Look around and pay close attention to productions
coming to theaters relating to alien themes and encounters such as
Alien Nation, They Live, E.T., The Hidden, My Mother is an Alien, Dr.
Alien, Close Encounters, -- to name a few. The aliens are planning to
make their presence known and the government is preparing you to that
end so as to prevent the type of public panic which occurred in
October of 1938.

Contingency Plan Creates Criminal Class Society

      The worst part of the contingency plans has also been
implemented, and is at work right now. For many years now they have
been importing drugs and selling them to Americans, mainly the poor
and minorities. Social welfare programs were set into place to create
a strata of dependent non-working element within our society. They
gradually remove people from the social welfare programs by changing
the eligibility requirements creating a desperate social under class
who'll turn to drugs and crime for survival purposes. A large criminal
class that did not exist in the 1950's and early 1960's has now
spawned into second and third generation outlaws and the chronically
unemployed. The "plan" also encourage the manufacture and importation
of deadly military firearms for the criminal element to use. This was
intended to foster a feeling of insecurity which would lead the
American people to voluntarily disarm themselves by passing laws
against firearms. Incidents were to be staged to speed up the process.
By using drugs and hypnosis in a process called "Orion" on selected
mental patients, the CIA inculcated the desire in these people to open
gunfire on school yards and thus inflame the anti-gun lobby. The plan
is well underway to erode every Constitutional protection we need to
defend ourselves from a dictatorial regime from taking over from
within. So far the master plan is working exactly as contemplated.
But, this plan must not succeed. Grass roots efforts and power must
not be under estimated. The Minute Men stood their ground against
great odds confronting the British. A giant wave of opposition is
building by people like you and I who value their commitment to the
freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution. Do you know what your
Constitutional Rights are? Moreover, are you willing to take a stand,
protect yourself and your Rights when this time comes? And it will!

Typical Scenario: Suspend Constitution, Institute Martial
Law

      A typical scenario will go as follows: due to the wave of crime
sweeping the nation, authorities will try to convince the public that
a state of anarchy exists within some major city. They are building
their case almost nightly on TV and in the daily newspapers. When
public opinion is favorable, they intend to state that a terrorist
group armed with a nuclear weapon has entered our borders and plans to
detonate it in one of our coastal cities. The government will then
suspend the Constitution and declare Martial Law. The secret alien
army of implanted humans and all dissidents (which translates into
anyone they choose) will be rounded up and placed into concentration
camps which already exist throughout the country. These camps are one
mile square.
     Are the designated people whom they intend to place in these
concentration camps destined to make up the reported "batch
consignment" slave labor force which are needed by the Space Colonist?
The media, radio, TV, newspapers, and computer networks will be
nationalized and seized. Rogue short wave radios and electronic
bulletin boards (BBS) may offers some small resistance networks but
will soon be revealed by collaborators and then confiscated by local
authorities. Black markets will flourish as usual. Anyone who resists
will be taken away or shot on the spot. This entire operation was
rehearsed by the government and military in 1984 under the code name
"REX-84". And it was an unbelievable success! When these events have
transpired the SECRET GOVERNMENT and/or ALIEN FORCES subversive
takeover will be final. Your freedoms will never be returned. Your
democracy will cease to exist. You will live in protected slavery for
the remainder of your life. If you know what's good for you, you'll
wake up now and really see what's happening. You had better do it now.
     Phil Klass, an agent of the CIA, has stated in the documents I
saw between 1970 and 1973 his job tasks. One of his jobs as an
aviation expert was to debunk everything to do with UFO's. All
military commanders were instructed to call him to gain information on
how to debunk and/or explain UFO contacts and/or sightings to the
public and/or sightings to the public and/or press, if and when the
need arose.

New Agents of Disinformation infiltrate UFO Groups

      William Moore, Jaimie Shanders, and Stanton Friedman are either
witting (with knowledge) or unwitting (being without knowledge) agents
of the secret government. I prefer to believe that they are unwitting
agents although William Moore's reported use of a Defense
Investigation Service ID card and his reputed self confession to Lee
Graham that he was an agent of the government makes me seriously doubt
them if the reports are true. Lee Graham called me at my home, and
when asked about Moore's confession, did confirm that Moore had indeed
confessed to him of being an official agent.
     Stanton Friedman has told me and many others years ago saying, "I
helped develop a nuclear reactor that was the size of a basketball,
was cleanly operating, turned out hydrogen as a by-product, and worked
like a dream to power an aircraft." These are his words not mine. The
only fuel which could go into such an engine and produce hydrogen as a
by-product is water. The only place in the universe at that time to
get such technology was from the aliens. Is he really an unwitting
person? I do not know. He was a member of the Moore, Shandera, and
Friedman research team and it was them who implemented the MAJESTIC
TWELVE contingency plan.
      Between 1970 and 1973 1 saw listed in certain documents the
names of individuals who were candidates for recruitment to implement
the contingency plan known as MAJESTIC TWELVE. By having known and
respected persons introduce it to the public, it would be accepted
without question. Bruce Macabee, Stanton Friedman, and William Moore
were among those listed. I don't know if the subsequent events
directly implicate Bruce Macabee's involvement in the fraud, however
the actions of Stanton Friedman and William Moore are more than highly
suspect.
     I do know that all of the major UFO research organizations were
targeted for infiltration and control by the secret government just as
NICAP was infiltrated and controlled. I believe that these efforts
have been successful. It is very possible that the major UFO
publications in this country are also controlled.

MAJORITY TWELVE alive and well Today

      Today MJ-12 still exists and operates just at it always has. It
is made up of the same structure, six from the same positions in
government, and six from the executive members of the Council on
Foreign Relations who are also members of the Trilateral Commission.
The Majority Agency for Joint Intelligence is publicly known as the
Senior Interagency Group (SIG).
In closing, it is very important to understand that the Council on
Foreign Relations and its counterpart, the Trilateral Commission, not
only control this country economically, but own it. Long before WWII
they were instrumental in helping to decide policy for the United
States Government. The Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral
Commission and their foreign counterparts report to the
"Bilderburgers" society. Almost every high level government and
military official of any consequence since WWII including our
Presidents have been members of the Council on Foreign Relations
and/or the Trilateral Commission.
     Each foreign nation of any importance has its own offshoot of the
Council on Foreign Relations and the members of each country interact
with those from other countries through the Bilderburgers Society to
further their common goals. The foreign members of the Trilateral
Commission each belong to similar respective organizations. Even a
cursory investigation by the most inexperienced researcher will show
that the members of the Council on Foreign Relations and the
Trilateral Commission control the major foundations, all the major
media and publishing interests, the largest banks, all the major
corporations, the upper echelons of government, and many other vital
interests around the world. Their members are either elected or
appointed to influential and powerful positions in governments because
they have all the resources, money and special interests behind them,
except the ordinary people. They are undemocratic and do not in any
way represent the majority of American citizens. Unfortunately, these
elite are the people who will decide who survives the coming holocaust
and who does not.

The Elite Membership of the Bilderburgers Society
      The Bilderburgers, the Council on Foreign Relations and the
Trilateral Commission make up the SECRET GOVERNMENT ruling our nation
through MJ 12, the Jason Society or Jason Scholars, and the top
echelon of the government who are privileged to join its elitist
membership.
Throughout our history, the Aliens have manipulated and controlled the
human race through various secret societies, religions, Satanic cults,
witchcraft and occult movements. The Council on Foreign Relations and
the Trilateral Commission are in complete control of alien technology
as well as our nation's economy. Eisenhower was the last President to
know the entire overview of the alien problem. All succeeding
Presidents were told only what MJ-12 and the Intelligence Community
want them to know and believe which is not the facts. MJ-12 has

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From: [e-mail] (Chris Mojica)
Subject: Aliens.Part3-Final
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presented each new President with a picture of a lost alien culture
seeking to renew itself, build a home on this planet, and shower us
with gifts of technology. In some cases, the President was told
nothing. Each President in turn has swallowed their story, or no
story, hook, line, and sinker. Meanwhile, innocent people continue to
suffer unspeakable horrors at the hands of alien and human scientists
who are engaged in astonishingly grotesque experimentation on human
subjects which would make even the Nazis look like Sunday school
children. If this point is not clear enough to make you nauseous, many
of the human subjects also become food products for the insatiable
alien appetite for biological enzymes, glandular hormonal secretions,
and blood. Many of the people who are abducted are sentenced to live
with psychological and physical damage for the rest of their lives, if
they are allowed to be returned home at all. In the documents that I
saw, one in forty humans have been implanted with devices for some
unknown purpose which I have been unable to discover. The government
believes that the aliens are building an army of human implants which
can be activated and turned upon us at will. You should also know that
to date we have not even begun to come close to parity with learning
the potential of alien technology. Is this arrangement worth our
subjugation?

Tho Conclusions are Inescapable

(1 ) The secret power structure believes that because of our own
ignorance or by Divine Decree, our planet Earth will self destruct
sometime in the near future. These men sincerely believe that they are
doing the right thing in their attempt to save the remnants of the
human race (via, space colonization projects). It's terribly ironic
that they have been forced to take as their partner an alien race
which is itself engaged in a monumental struggle to save their
species. Many moral and legal compromises have been made in this joint
effort. These compromises have been made in error and must be
corrected. And those responsible should be made to account for their
actions (under a world tribunal). I can understand the fear and
urgency that must have been instrumental in the decision not to tell
the public. Obviously, I disagree with their course of action.
Throughout history small but powerful groups of men have consistently
felt that they alone were capable of deciding the fates of millions of
people. But as history bares witness, they have been wrong. This great
nation owes its very existence to the Principles of Freedom and
Democracy. I believe with all my heart that the United States of
America cannot and will not succeed in any effort what ignores these
principles. Full disclosure to the public should be made. It is
imperative that we should proceed to save the human race in its
entirety.

(2) We are being manipulated by a joint human/alien effort and power
structure which will result in the total enslavement or destruction of
the human race. We must use any and every means available to prevent
this course of action from happening to us.


(3) Because the government has been totally deceived resulting in our
being manipulated by alien forces which will result in our eventual
enslavement, we, individually and collectively, must use any means
possible to terminate further agreements and/or interactions with this
potentially destructive alien race of beings. We must inform the
public using public access radio and television. Take measures to
Protect your right to bear arms under the Constitution. And create
grass roots special interest groups to develop counter-measures to
economic and social control of our country by defending the rights of
individuals and/or minorities who are subjected to "divide and
conquer" strategies.

(4) We must force disclosure of all the facts, discover the truth and
act upon it. Much of what is happening and being planned for us would
be beyond our ability to understand at this time, if it weren't for
the courageous efforts of some individuals already dedicated to
resistance and defiance of the purposes of MJ-12. It is to that end,
that I am offering this information to you in the hope that it will
not go unheard. They must know our freedoms will not be compromised by
alien lies and deception.

(5) If the truth does not set us free from the potential destruction
that looms in our future, we must remove and eliminate the alien
threat and their Trilateral associates once and for all. No one group
or special interest is above the survival of the human race. We must
survive as a species in our totality, or we will perish as
individuals, like sheep in a slaughter.

What can we do to Stop the Tide?

       In any case, we MUST force disclosure of the truth no matter
what happens, or we will surely deserve our fate. The situation in
which we find ourselves is due to our own actions or inactions over
the last 44 years. It is our responsibility and we are the only ones
who can change the circumstances. Through misplaced trust and
ignorance in our governmental processes, we as free citizens have
abdicated our role as the "watch dog" over our public servants. Our
government was founded "...of the people, for the people, and by the
people". There was no mention or intent to ever abdicate our power and
responsibility by allowing and placing our total trust in a handful of
power hungry men who meet secretly and decide our fate. In fact, the
structure of our government was designed to prevent just that mistake
from ever happening. Most of us are completely ignorant of the most
basic functions of government. How many know how our electoral college
is picked to elect our President? We have truly become a nation of
sleeping sheep who are being led to the slaughter. It is time to wake
up, stand up and fight back in the same manner as our forefathers. I
remind you of a little history when the Jews of Europe marched
obediently to the Nazis ovens without believing the warnings. Having
been told the facts, they were warmed of Hitlers intent disbelieving
all the while that the facts could not possibly be true. When the
outside world was told of the occurring holocaust in Hitlers European
theater, it was not believed until the ovens had cooled. I
emphatically state here and now that this same Hitler was also being
manipulated by these same alien beings. I have brought you the facts
as I know them. I do not care what you think of me. I have done my
duty by disclosing everything I know with you. No matter what lies in
store for me, I can truly meet my maker with a clear conscience. I
believe first in God. The same God my ancestors believed in. I believe
in Jesus Christ and that he is my Lord and Savior. I believed second
in the Constitution of the United States of America as it was
designed, written, and meant to work. I have given my oath to protect
and defend the U.S. Constitution against all enemies foreign and
DOMESTIC. I intend to fulfil that oath.

     Thank You,

     (signed) Milton W. Cooper






Majority Twelve History

                         BIBLIOGRAPHY
TOP SECRET/GRUDGE/ Blue Book Report #13 by Lt.Col. Friend &
          Dr J.Allen Hynek. Seen at the HDQ of the
Commander-in-Chief of the
Pacific Fleet (CINCPACFLT), Hawaii.

TOP SECRET/MAJIC/ Operation Majority Presidential briefing document by
MJ-12.
■Last seen at CINCPACFLT (Above address).

Operation Majority, Final Release by William Cooper
William Cooper, Fullerton, CA.

The John Lear Hypothesis by John A. Lear,
John A. Lear, Las Vegas, Nevada.

Report on GRUDGE/ Blue Book #13 by Bill English,
John A.Lear, Las Vegas, Nevada.

The Larry Fenwick Interview by Tom Mickus,
Tom Mikus, Canada.

The Krill Papers, Author Unknown, Publisher Unknown.

BRIEFING DOCUMENT: OPERATION MAJESTIC TWELVE. Author Unknown,
Release by the research team of Moore,Shandera,& Friedman.

The Puzzle Palace by James Bamford,■Houghton Mifflin, Boston.

The Wise Men of Foreign Affairs by Robert D. Schulzinger,
Columbia University Press, New York.

The Crimes of Patriots by Jonathon Kwitny,
W. W. Norton, New York.

The Department of Defense by C.W. Borklund,
Frederick A. Praeger, New York.

Freedom at Risk edited by Richard 0. Curry,
- Temple University Press, Philadelphia, PA.

The Armies of Ignorance by William R. Corson,
The Dial Press/James Wade, New York.

Nuclear Weapons and Foreign Policy by Henry Kissinger,
Harper & Brothers, New York.

Kissinger. Portrait of a Mind by Stephen R. Graubard,
W. W. Norton, New York.

The Agency. The Rise and Decline of the CIA by John Ranelagh,
Simon & Schuster, New York.

The Rockefellers: an American Dynasty by Peter Collier &
David Horowitz,
Holt, Rinehart and Winston, New York.

Breaking Cover by Bill Gulley with Mary Ellen Reese,
■Simon & Schuster, New York.

Precious Statecraft by Michael A. Ledeen,
Charles Scribner & Sons, New York.

The Rockefeller Inheritance by Alvin Moscow,
■Doubleday & Co., New York.

Imperial Brain Trust.  The Council on Foreign Relations & United
States Foreign Policy
by Lawrence H. Shoup & William Minter,
■Monthly Review Press, New York.

The Wise Men by Walter Isaacson & Evan Thomas,
Simon & Schuster, New York.

Government Involvement in the UFO Cover-up: Chronology by
Pea Research,
Pea Research, California

We Discovered Alien Bases on the Moon by Fred Steckling,
G.A.F. International, California.

The Matrix by Valdamar Valerian, Arcturus Book Service,
■My copy does not have an address or state.

Communion by Whitly Streiber, Avon, New York.
The UFO Abductors by Brad Steiger, Berkley Books, New York.
Extra-Terrestrials Among Us by George C. Andrews,
Llewellyn Publications, St.Paul, MN.

A Brief History of Time. From the Big Bang to Black Holes by
Stephen W. Hawkings,■
Bantam Books, New York.

The Crash at Aztec by William Stienman,
William Stienman, La Mirada, California.

UFO Magazine (Several issues since Spring 1988),
Edited by Vickie Cooper, and Sherie Stark,
■Published by California UFO, Los Angeles, CA.
I have been aided by the personal research of John Lear, Linda Howe,
Bill English, William Stienman, Paul Sheppard, Roger Scherrer, Don
Echer, Tal LeVesque, Leonard Stringfield. Ron Rogehr, sources who must
remain unnamed, and many others who have so freely shared the results
of their labor with me. I extend to you my deepest appreciation and a
very warm friendship. Thank you all.
                    (signed by) "William Cooper"

Table of Contents
The Truman Years ............

PART 1

13 Crashed Alien Space Craft in U.S.A.
................................
Above Top Secret Classification
......................................
Project SIGN and GRUDGE
.........................................
Truman Creates CIA by Executive Order _ ~ _ _ _ _ _ _
Directive Defines CIA Authority Under NSC-4
..........................
Covert Abilities Expanded
...........................................
Secretary of Defense Forrestal Objects to Alien Secrecy
Living Alien Rescued at Roswell, New Mexico, 1949 . . .
Alien Biological System Based on Chlorophyll Process
Truman Creates NSA to Decipher Alien Language . .
NSA is Above the Law .............................
U.S.A. Shares Alien Secret with Soviet Union .......
President Eisenhower tackles the Alien Problem .... -
Eisenhower and Rockefeller Join Forces
.................................
Rockefeller Appointed Chairman of Advisory Committee
...................
Space Visitors Discovered by Astronomers .............
Aliens from Plieades Warns U.S. about ~Grays' ...........
Aliens from Orion Greet President Eisenhower ...........
Treaty signed with Alien Nation Ambassador Krill ........
Alien Personnel Exchanged & Underground Base Construction
Alien Space Craft Tested in Nevada: Project REDLIGHT ....
Secret Fund Finances 75 Underground Bases in USA ......
Rockefeller assumes post as Cold War Strategist .......
NSC-5410 Memo defines Scope of Majority Twelve ....
Key members from the Jason Scholars, Secret Society . .
MJ-12 Known Under Many Names ......................
Aliens Break Treaty, Mutilate Human Bodies, 1955 .......
NSC-5412/2 Creates
      Contingency Plan to Study Alien Problem .........
THE STUDY GROUP MEMBERS ....................... Second
Phase Meeting of 'Study Group' ............... Major
Finding resulted from Alien Study:
Economic Collapse ............................. Second
Major Finding:
Genetic Experiments upon Humans ............. Current
Weapon Technology Useless against Aliens .... Vatican
Archives reveals ~End Times' Prophecy True .... Aliens
Confronted with Biblical Prophecy ............. Jason
Scholars are asked to develop Alternative Scenario Rand
Corporation Symposium on Underground Shelters ILLegal
Drug Markets become Financial Resource for CIA


Page 26
Table of Contents - PART 2i
President Kennedy Discovers Separate Space Program
........ President Kennedy Threatens to Expose the Alien
Secret ........ President Kennedy is Assassinated in
Dallas .................. Alien Moon Base Discovered by
Apollo Astronauts ..............
Astronaut Goes on Record exposes Alternative 3     -
Alien Technology Given to U.S. Scientists
.....................
Moon Atmosphere Supports Life .............................
Human vs. Alien Confrontation in Underground Lab
.............
President Nixon Forced to Resign by MJ-12 ..................
Special Commission Covers Up Top Secret Facts ..............
Vast Financial Network Hides CIA Funding . . . L
False Trail Created as Contingency Plan ....
Contingency Plan Prepares Public for Alien Encounter
........
Contingency Plan Creates Criminal Class Society
..............
Typical Scenario: Suspend Constitution, Institute Martial
Law
New Agents of Disinformation infiltrate UFO Groups
...........
MAJORITY TWELVE alive and well Today ...................
The Elite Membership of the Bilderburgers Society ..........
The Conclusions are Inescapable . .
What can we do to Stop the Tide?
............................
BIBLIOGRAPHY ...........................................





Page 27


x.............
......ines
Scope of
Majority Twelve
....
Key members
from the Jason
Scholars,
Secret Society
. .
MJ-12 Known
Under Many
Names
...............
.......
Aliens Break
Treaty,
Mutilate Human
Bodies, 1955
.......
NSC-5412/2
Creates
      Contingency Plan to Study Alien Problem .........
THE STUDY GROUP MEMBERS ....................... Second
Phase Meeting of 'Study Group' ............... Major
Finding resulted from Alien Study:
Economic Collapse ............................. Second
Major Finding:
Genetic Experiments upon Humans ............. Current
Weapon Technology Useless against Aliens .... Vatican
Archives reveals ~End Times' Prophecy True .... Aliens
Confronted with Biblical Prophecy ............. Jason
Scholars are asked to develop Alternative Scenario Rand
Corporation Symposium on Underground Shelters ILLegal
Drug Markets become Financial Resource for CIA


Page 26


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!cs.widener.edu!dsinc!satalink!ray.rooney
From: [e-mail] (Ray Rooney)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Nov 92 01:31:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA [phone]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Ray Rooney)
Lines: 26

TO: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney)

MA>>      I thought Coke cans were aluminum these days?  This is to suggest
MA>they
MA>> might get hot from the Eddy currents induced by a large varying magnetic
MA>field
MA>> but they shouldn't mechanically crumple.

MA>I posted before on this topic, but I'll repeat the bit about the Coke
MA>cans.  Even though Coke cans are aluminum, they can crumple due to a large
MA>varying magnetic field.  If a wire looped four or five times around the
MA>Coke can is shorted across a huge capacitor (millifarad range) charged to
MA>a few kilovolts, the change in current is so great that a significant
MA>induced current is produced.  The interaction between the original
MA>magnetic field and the induced current's magnetic field causes the induced
MA>current path to try to shrink rapidly, pinching off the center of the Coke
MA>can.

And this field affects non-ferrous materials? Aluminum is so
non-reactive (magnetically) that it is routinely used for coil forms.
?????

Or is something other than magnetism at work here?

 * SLMR 2.1a * Money Talks! - Unfortunately, mine only says "Good Bye"!

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445
From: [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)
Subject: Re: rapture in flames
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 11:19:03 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Lines: 86

>nmt@NSA writes:
>Msg-ID: <40f402r=[e-mail]>
>Org.  : ACM Development
>>My words--         Hey, I've experienced the rapture, (excuse me) the
>RAPTURE several times and I didn't have to wait for Oct. 28.  Many of us
>>modern folk call it orgasm and it can be heavenly and almost as good as the
>>second coming.  :)
>> Colleen
>> --
?>> It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
>> The Crimson Bunion

>     Hey you, DEVIL WORSHIPER!!!!!

       You certainly are a presumptuous moron, aren't you?  Just because I
say something that goes against your beliefs doesn't make me a devil
worshipper.  But I guess you see everyone as a SINNER because they don't act
as if their bodies and sexuality are ugly and bad.

>     At least show some respect regarding other people's belief.  I
personally
>never believed that the rapture would occur on the 28th of October.  But,
>if that is what others believed, I just leave it at that.  THERE HAS TO BE
>A LIMIT FOR EVERYTHING.  THERE ARE CERTAIN SUBJECTS THAT ONE CAN NOT JOKE
>ABOUT, and religious belief is certainly one of them.

        As I've always said and strongy believe, If you can't laugh at
yourself then you can't laugh at others  and that includes RELIGION?  Stop
taking yourself in a righteous, egocentric, "Only my view and religion count"
attitude.  I respect all other religions and the diversity of religions
because I know that no matter how varied the path, it should lead to the same
ideal, enlightenment, rapture.  And as I stated to one person in a private
post, all those saints in ecstasy were experiencing the cosmic equivalent of
orgams which is a rapture unless you're such a prude and so frozen by a
backward society that you cannot enjoy the wholeness and beautiful variety of
the world, including love and sexual intimacy.  Many times I've experienced
jokes about my beliefs and from those who have the same beliefs also.  If you
are so insecure that a joke destroys your beliefs or religion then I would
look at what you fear.

>     Maybe your parents never taught you anything, but being an adult (or
are
>you?????) you should know better than joking in such trashy manner.  Perhaps
>you are just too modern that there is no more moral value left in your head
>which probably is already full of garbage and trash.

       Trashy manner.  I think your comments show the full misunderstanding
and narrowness of your views.  Can you say these words--sex, vagina, penis,
love, intercourse, orgasm, love, intimacy--I knew you couldn't.  Love and sex
is not trash, it is the ugly emotions people attach to it.  My parents taught
me a great deal, some of it I had to unlearn to stay healthy and society has
taught me just how sick and twisted people can become when to show a nude
human on t.v. is wrong and to show two people making love on t.v. is dirty,
shameful and bad.  Everyone does it, or nearly everyone., and they should if
they're healthy.  But tell me, oh wise and moral one who writes the laws for
the world, how many people watch people being shot on t.v. and in movies, see
murders, rapes and beatings?  THAT is fine to see but sex, something healthy
and natural and an instinct in the survival of the human race, is BAD.  I am
adult and child enough to see the balance needed. No, you don't show children
every kink about sex or murder but you also don't tell them it's bad to touch
themselves.  I think you only see the narrow alley of your beliefs and I
imagine you will die of a heart attack if you ever travel to other countries
and see how the heathens act--or should I say devil worshippers.

>     BE SILENT YOU IMMORAL FOOL!!!!!  I despised creatures like you.  It
must
>be creatures like you that create and promote the immorality in the society
>to day, and poison the minds of the youngs.

        If you despised creatures like me(by the way, I am human--sometimes I
mourn this fact because of prehistoric fundies like you), what do you do now?
Go about in religious fervor and shoot us.  Is your vision of the world one
where everyone is silent except for the righteous few.  Welcome to Hitler,
1984 and the Handmaid's Tale combined.  I think your letter says it all when
you won't even sign your name to your hateful and angry letter.  Of course, I
realize I have stooped to your level by also being angry and likewise calling
you names.  I apologize for that--you know not what you do.  More, I actually
feel sorry for you but I doubt you will ever understand why.
        I am enjoying life, living it (with orgasms and orgasmics raptures),
not pushing my views down other's throats and I am not hurting others.  But
hey, we all know that society is much better than that.
        Colleen Anderson

--
It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
The Crimson Bunion
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!sdd.hp.com!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Nov 92 07:53:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 13


 > Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?

One other thing that is very strange and cannot be explained is the apparent ability of the motor to start itself without assistance from the driver after the object has left the area.  I believe that this feature has been reported several times.

I also noticed that Steve Gamble added something to this subject about a catalog available from CUFOS on EM interference cases.  I would recommend this publication as a good source of information concerning this aspect of the phenomenon.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Subject: Re: Ionization (Steve) and Dimensions (corbisier)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Food for thought....
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
References:  <stone.720367148@cwis>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 11:16:04 GMT
Lines: 66

In article <stone.720367148@cwis>, [e-mail] (Travis Stone) writes:
>
(concerning car stops and possibility that ionisation causes current in
  ignition system to leak to ground)
>
> Ionization is something I didn't consider---an intriguing
> idea, and an appealing one to a person like myself who
> is more at home with a "classical physics" view of the
> world (or, perhaps I should say, "universe").  The source
> of the ionization would have to be extremely localized,
> don't you think, since animal tissue is extremely suscept-
> ible to the nasty effects ions and free radicals produce
> within it?  It makes me wonder; if ionization is the cause,
> then what is the source of the ionization?  Short-wavelength
> radiation is one "obvious" source, but if this were so, then
> the vehicle passengers would all have suffered terribly---
> it would be like getting nailed with a huge dose of X-rays.
> This has happened only once---the 1980 Cash-Landrum case
> down in Texas (I freely admit the car didn't stall...I just
> wanted to cite an obvious case of radiation poisoning from
> a CE) and I can't think of any other cases (recent history
> or past) in which the passengers of a UFO-stalled vehicle
> fell ill.  So where does that leave ionization as a possible
> explanation?  "Possible ionization effects through unknown
> means."  An interesting idea, Steve; any conjectures as to
> the mechanism?
>
> T.R. Stone

I have vague recollections several years ago of a lecture I attended
of somebody talking about design for a UFO (where UFO=vehicle). I think
it might have Prof. Bryan Winder who is a former Vice-President of the
British UFO Research Association and is a consultant to Flying Saucer
Review. I think he was Prof of Engineering at Southampton University.

His Saucer was somthing like the Adamski style craft, round about 30 feet
diameter with three spherical projections on the bottom. He postulated that
the device would work by ionising air. The spheres generate a magnetic field
which prevents the ionised air from moving out sideways. The only place the
ionised air could go would be downwards, thus generating thrust. Un-ionised
air could cross the magnetic field unhindered.

As I said before I am not an engineer, so have to take most of this kind of
thing on trust. Also it is sometime ago so I only have a vague recall of it.

The second line of thought on this is the work Terence Meaden has been doing
on Crop Circles. He states that the mechanism which causes circles is a local
stationary and short lived whirlwind. (I think the mechanism he is proposing
is also sometimes called a Hill vortex, not sure). He states that the rapid
rotation of the air can cause ionisation. This will glow at night possibly
accounting for some ball-of-light type UFOs. It has been proposed that the
Meaden type vortex could at least account for the Alan Godfrey case. Godfrey
was a police office for encountered a large spinning UFO at 6am in November
1980 in Yorkshire. His car stalled and he seems to have suffered some missing
time. It had been raining overnight and where the UFO had hovered he found a
large circlular dry patch.

Just thoughts..............

Steve

--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Subject: Re: Dateline NBC & UFOs CLUE #2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: UFO
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 11:28:21 GMT
Lines: 24

(Concerning hackers on a TV programme claiming to brak into a DoD computer
  and display a list of UFO parts)

Was not UFO at one time an IBM operating system? Perhaps these guys ended up
with an IBM on-line catalogue!

Just think, what kind of things might you have as part of an operating system
and its documentation -

    a UFO toolkit?
    basic UFO documentation kit/set
    UFO recovery kit
    UFO disassembler
    UFO disk storage manuals
    UFO manual set
    Introduction to UFO languages
                    etc.
Steve

--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!mv!lemuria!darryl
From: [e-mail] (Darryl P. Wagoner)
Subject: Re: Dateline NBC & UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Shecora Associates, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 92 11:10:55 GMT
Lines: 9

I didn't see Dataline, but I have worked in the Trusted computer
environment long enough to know that goverment doesn't put anything on
a system that is classified(sp) that can be reached from the outside.
It was either a hoax, disinformation or something they wanted to leak.
--
Darryl Wagoner        [e-mail]
12 Oak Hill Road
Brookline, NH 03033
Office: 603.672.0736
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12464 alt.alien.visitors:10703 sci.skeptic:33367
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  2 Nov 92 06:28:13 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 41

Subject: History Of The Earth (4.5 billion years). Part 4a.
  I used to love to listen to Joseph Campbell and his explanations of myths  I
believe he gave out a lot of truth. Now back to Baloran's explanation of the
history of the Earth. Brutes of terrible and unbelievable proportions,
created by the radio-activity of the Atlantis and Lemuria war, did in
reality roam the earth for a time, preying on defenseless man.  It was
through the efforts of this Adamic race that the reign of terror of such
beasts as centaurs, satyrs, unicorns, harpies, mermen and mermaids, was
finally broken and destroyed.  Superstitious man turned to these wonderful
beings in worship and adoration.
  During the cleansing of earth, Adam and his kin entered flesh to accomplish
certain tasks which could be accomplished in no other way.  These sojourns
in flesh became pleasant experiences for many of these spirit beings. Each
flesh entry made returning to spirit form more dfficult. Adam established
close and affectionate ties with men on earth. He though that by combining
his spirit nature with man-nature he could best accomplish that which he
came to accomplish.  Adam and his kin took direct control of man and all of
his affairs. "And the sons of God found the daughters of earth fair, and
took them to wife." Thus "fell" Adam and his race to become enmeshed in the
cycle of birth and rebirth.  [So Adam and his people mated with the people
already on the Earth and we are their progeny.]
  Man; the animal creature, evolved from the slime of his first home planet in
much the same manner your sciences credit earth with his spawning.  In order
of creation within you universe, man was almost last. His development,
however, was much more rapid than you might suspect. His development
occurred on a planet of great beauty, placidity and hospitality.  That world
knew no such thing as violent storm, seismic convulsion or sun pulsation.
Its character was one of quietude and peace. Its sun was most beneficent.
  Upon evolving in to intelligent functioning being with well developed sense
of curiosity which time encompassed only several million years, man was
faced with little or no competitive struggle for existence. His home planet
and he were suited ideally for each other. They were compatible, you would
say. This world abounded in natural resources necessary to facilitate a
great civilization. Man's inventiveness and curiosity turned these resources
to that use. He evolved a civilization upon that world capable of extending
itself to the stars. This, too, occurred in a relatively short time.
Approximately one hundred thousand of your years were required for man to
successfully leave his original home world for other habitable spots in you
universe.
End Part 4a
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: AURAS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  2 Nov 92 06:41:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Aura Bunch: I think it would be good to watch the presidential
candidate's auras so they would lie less.
John Winston
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!cs.uow.edu.au!u8706320
From: [e-mail] (Marco Fabiani)
Subject: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 14:23:38 GMT
Lines: 29

[e-mail] (Michael Corbin) writes:


> > Any thoughts/opinions/insights/ideas, people?

>One other thing that is very strange and cannot be explained is the apparent ability of the motor to start itself without assistance from the driver after the object has left the area.  I believe that this feature has been reported several times.

>I also noticed that Steve Gamble added something to this subject about a catalog available from CUFOS on EM interference cases.  I would recommend this publication as a good source of information concerning this aspect of the phenomenon.

>Mike

>--
>Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
>UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
>INTERNET: [e-mail]

Well, one thing that solves most UFO-related problems is the idea of the
time dilation field.
Such a field slows down the passage of time and help to explain:
1. Motors stopping. They don't stop, they're just percieved to not move.
2. Motors starting. They dont start, see note 1.
3. People 'losing' large amounts of time (adbuctees).
4. The incredible abcrobatics UFO's seem to perform.
5. The problem of interstellar travel.

A silly idea I know, but do you have an idea which explains them all?


----------------------Marco G Fabiani @ Wollongong---------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!spool.mu.edu!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Re: rapture
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 43
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References: <[e-mail]> <40f402r=[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 15:01:05 GMT


In article <40f402r=[e-mail]>, nmt@NSA writes:

|>     Hey you, DEVIL WORSHIPER!!!!!
|>
|>     At least show some respect regarding other people's belief.  I personally
|>never believed that the rapture would occur on the 28th of October.  But,
|>if that is what others believed, I just leave it at that.  THERE HAS TO BE
|>A LIMIT FOR EVERYTHING.  THERE ARE CERTAIN SUBJECTS THAT ONE CAN NOT JOKE
|>ABOUT, and religious belief is certainly one of them.
|>     Maybe your parents never taught you anything, but being an adult (or are
|>you?????) you should know better than joking in such trashy manner.  Perhaps
|>you are just too modern that there is no more moral value left in your head
|>which probably is already full of garbage and trash.
|>     BE SILENT YOU IMMORAL FOOL!!!!!  I despised creatures like you.  It must
|>be creatures like you that create and promote the immorality in the society
|>to day, and poison the minds of the youngs.


Jesus KEYRIST and you all thought I was an asshole!  This guy takes the guy
takes the cake.

As for "showing respect for other people's beliefs"  When ranting self-rightious
jerks such as yourself get on the line it only helps to bulster the lack of
respect that  you think you deserve.  Based upon what I have seen recently you
and your religion deserve no respect at all.


                        Get a life!

Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids

--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph
From: [e-mail] (Tom Randolph)
Subject: Re: rapture
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References: <[e-mail]> <40f402r=[e-mail]>
Date:  2 NOV 92 09:58:01
Lines: 24


In article <40f402r=[e-mail]>, nmt@NSA writes...
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes:
>>
>>         Hey, I've experienced the rapture, (excuse me) the RAPTURE several
>> times and I didn't have to wait for Oct. 28.  Many of us modern folk call it
>> orgasm and it can be heavenly and almost as good as the second coming.  :)
>> Colleen
>> --
>> It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
>> The Crimson Bunion
>
>     Hey you, DEVIL WORSHIPER!!!!!
>
>     BE SILENT YOU IMMORAL FOOL!!!!!  I despised creatures like you.

Oh brother.

...and what is the greatest commandment?
That you should love the lord your God with all your heart,
and love your neighbor as yourself.

Now can we remove the religious ravings from this group, please?
-Tom R.   [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.larc.nasa.gov!zip.larc.nasa.gov!ada
From: [e-mail] (Anthony Arviola)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Date: 2 Nov 92 12:20:58
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zip.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of Sat, 31 Oct 1992 00:06:36 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: 6d4065724697183416aa8a3ded9b1a75

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff) writes:
   (Intentional Rubbish Deleted)
   >
   *I AM* one of the authors of the FAQ, thankyou very much.

   I don't want to argue about it. If it is realted in some way to the UFO
   puzzle, and you want to talk about it, this is the place. If you don't want
   to read it, hit your "n" key, period. End of discussion.

   Jeff-

Sorry, I didn't catch the part about auras and Bigfoot in the FAQ.

But still, good job.  I guess, Jeff, my complaint is that my 'n' key
has been getting quit a bit of a workout.  Maybe sub-heading A.A.V
would be nice.

Seriously.  Help me see the light here.  What am I missing?  How can John
Winston's announcements about his up coming trips help me in my personal
search for answers.  I am being serious.  I'm over being defensive, and
am interested in what you have to say.  If you could maybe read the posts
of today, and reply on how each post has been helpful, that would be good.
But it's up to you.

I appreciate your time in the matter.

Good Day,
Tony
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.larc.nasa.gov!zip.larc.nasa.gov!ada
From: [e-mail] (Anthony Arviola)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: rapture
Date: 2 Nov 92 12:29:27
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <40f402r=[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zip.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of Sat, 31 Oct 1992 18:20:31 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: 7c399d086c21a7d3e447f53c450d7e8c

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff) writes:
   From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
   Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
   Lines: 23

   In article <40f402r=[e-mail]> nmt@NSA writes:
   >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes:
   <some sexual play on the work "rapture">
   <some "hell fire and brimstone" stuff>

   Did anyone notice this persons address?

   From: nmt@NSA
   Subject: Re: rapture
   Date: 30 Oct 92 19:25:42 GMT
   Organization: ACM Development

   Is this "the" NSA?

   Jeff-

Sort of related.  I'm interested in NETCOM.

Good Day,
Tony
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From: [e-mail] (Anthony Arviola)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Date: 2 Nov 92 12:50:33
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Lines: 24
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
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In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 2 Nov 92 01:31:00 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: 5f37dffc77a9a1676ec55df12bb5a506

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ray Rooney)  writes:

   MA>I posted before on this topic, but I'll repeat the bit about the Coke
   MA>cans.  Even though Coke cans are aluminum, they can crumple due to a large
   MA>varying magnetic field.  If a wire looped four or five times around the
   MA>Coke can is shorted across a huge capacitor (millifarad range) charged to
   MA>a few kilovolts, the change in current is so great that a significant
   MA>induced current is produced.  The interaction between the original
   MA>magnetic field and the induced current's magnetic field causes the induced
   MA>current path to try to shrink rapidly, pinching off the center of the Coke
   MA>can.

   And this field affects non-ferrous materials? Aluminum is so
   non-reactive (magnetically) that it is routinely used for coil forms.
   ?????

I think the question might be "Can a current be induced in an aluminum wire?"
If it can, perhaps the currents within the aluminum are producing a magnetic
field which implies a magnetic force, opposite of the force that created it(?).
Perhaps this is the force that crushes the can.

Good Day,
Tony

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From: [e-mail] (Anthony Arviola)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
Date: 2 Nov 92 12:56:54
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zip.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of Mon, 2 Nov 1992 14:23:38 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: 55ffec938e4c6f10b546b8ead152d32e

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Marco Fabiani) writes:
<discussion about cars starting and stopping deleted>

   Well, one thing that solves most UFO-related problems is the idea of the
   time dilation field.
   Such a field slows down the passage of time and help to explain:
   1. Motors stopping. They don't stop, they're just percieved to not move.
   2. Motors starting. They dont start, see note 1.
   3. People 'losing' large amounts of time (adbuctees).
   4. The incredible abcrobatics UFO's seem to perform.
   5. The problem of interstellar travel.

   A silly idea I know, but do you have an idea which explains them all?


   ----------------------Marco G Fabiani @ Wollongong---------------------------
Does anybody have information about "time dilation".  This thought has crossed
my mind before also.  It might explain a lot of other things as well.  Imagine
proving the unified field theory.  Solving the Bermuda Triangle mystery.
And other phenom.

Good Day,
Tony
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From: [e-mail] (Max Elliot)
Subject: Re: rapture in flames
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 17:08:10 GMT
Lines: 25

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson):
>>nmt@NSA writes:
>>Msg-ID: <40f402r=[e-mail]>
>>Org.  : ACM Development
>>>My words--         Hey, I've experienced the rapture, (excuse me) the
>>RAPTURE several times and I didn't have to wait for Oct. 28.  Many of us
>>>modern folk call it orgasm and it can be heavenly and almost as good as the
>>>second coming.  :)
>>> Colleen
>>> --
> ?>> It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
>>> The Crimson Bunion
>
>>     Hey you, DEVIL WORSHIPER!!!!!

  Who is this presumptuous, pious, head-up-their ass fanatic?  Go get 'em
  Colleen! This 'person' has got some serious problems. And now to personally
  address said 'person': You contend that Colleen and her 'type' are what
  is destroying the minds of young people. Well, I contend that it is YOU!
  You are destroying the minds of all who have not the wisdom to discount
  you. You are a hypocrite, as you directly contradict the teachings of
  of the tome you hold so dear. (I am assuming you are a bible-thumper)
  But, no matter. Whatever book you thump, thump it *elsewhere* !!!

-Max
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From: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: rapture
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
References: <[e-mail]> <40f402r=[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Nov 92 19:14:56 GMT
Lines: 42

In article <40f402r=[e-mail]> nmt@NSA writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes:
>>
>>         Hey, I've experienced the rapture, (excuse me) the RAPTURE several
>> times and I didn't have to wait for Oct. 28.  Many of us modern folk call it
>> orgasm and it can be heavenly and almost as good as the second coming.  :)
>> Colleen
>> --
>> It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
>> The Crimson Bunion
>
>     Hey you, DEVIL WORSHIPER!!!!!
>
>     At least show some respect regarding other people's belief.  I personally
>never believed that the rapture would occur on the 28th of October.  But,
>if that is what others believed, I just leave it at that.  THERE HAS TO BE
>A LIMIT FOR EVERYTHING.  THERE ARE CERTAIN SUBJECTS THAT ONE CAN NOT JOKE
>ABOUT, and religious belief is certainly one of them.
>     Maybe your parents never taught you anything, but being an adult (or are
>you?????) you should know better than joking in such trashy manner.  Perhaps
>you are just too modern that there is no more moral value left in your head
>which probably is already full of garbage and trash.
>     BE SILENT YOU IMMORAL FOOL!!!!!  I despised creatures like you.  It must
>be creatures like you that create and promote the immorality in the society
>to day, and poison the minds of the youngs.

Hey, you forgot the smiley's!  Or, perhaps, you are in fact some religiously
twisted jackass bigot - in which case, you have my permission to screw your-
self right into hell.

I, for one, feel Colleen has got it right!

However, Colleen - the second time around is often much better than the first...


kbq


--
Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
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From: [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ALIEN Intelligence
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Nov 92 19:00:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Setec Astronomy
Lines: 34

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Keith Spears) writes:
>
>I've heard this idea presented before; however, the reference was not to
>aliens, but squid.  Squid live in what is for us an incredibly alien
>environment - while the potential for intelligence is there, chances are
>we'll never find out, since the signals are so different.
>
>I believe, as you suggest, that the case also holds true for actual
>"aliens."  Unless they've developed on a world with similar attributes
>(which, of course, may be the only possibility), we might not recognize
>them even if they landed in the backyard, let alone establish
>communication.
>
> * OLX 2.1 TD * The aliens are amongst us, and they are squid.

Dolphins.  Consider the ratio of brain size to body weight.  Next to
humans, dolphins have the largest ratio (so I've heard).  However,
dolphins live in seawater, so the buoyancy gives them the edge
(and they need less of their brain for things like balance, etc.)
Also, because they have no opposable thumbs, and haven't developed
technologically, perhaps they are more advanced mentally.  The
specialized structures in the dolphin brain for echo location may
have other abilities.

I can't remember where I've read this stuff; maybe somebody else
can state these ideas more clearly than I have.



--
DISCLAIMER:                                              | Bob Mitchell
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | [e-mail]
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy         | 1987 VT700c
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From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 22:12:49 GMT
Lines: 42

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anthony Arviola) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Marco Fabiani) writes:
><discussion about cars starting and stopping deleted>
>
>   Well, one thing that solves most UFO-related problems is the idea of the
>   time dilation field.
>   Such a field slows down the passage of time and help to explain:
>   1. Motors stopping. They don't stop, they're just percieved to not move.
>   2. Motors starting. They dont start, see note 1.
>   3. People 'losing' large amounts of time (adbuctees).
>   4. The incredible abcrobatics UFO's seem to perform.
>   5. The problem of interstellar travel.
>
>   A silly idea I know, but do you have an idea which explains them all?
>
>
>   ----------------------Marco G Fabiani @ Wollongong---------------------------
>Does anybody have information about "time dilation".  This thought has crossed
>my mind before also.  It might explain a lot of other things as well.  Imagine
>proving the unified field theory.  Solving the Bermuda Triangle mystery.
>And other phenom.

Long ago, when I had just gotten Appleworks for my 64K //e, I took several
of Frank Edwards books and entered all the stuff about the Bermuda Triangle
that I could find (hmm, maybe not Frank Edwards, but). Next I used the database
to see what I could find. Mostly, I found nothing. But the most usefull
seemed to be the counts of dissaperanced by month. It seems that almost
all dissaperances were reported during December and (July, August?). There was
a noise level of a few dissaperances during all other months.

I concluded that this made sense if the dissaperances were the results of
winter storms and summer storms. I never double checked, wonder if I still
have the files?

>Good Day,
>Tony

Rich

[e-mail]


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: AURAS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  2 Nov 92 15:29:12 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 7

Dear Aura Watchers:
I found one of the announcements again and it is the New Age
Renaissance Fair Nov. 14 and 15. Guy Cggins (Aisle 4, #418) Aura photos,
ion genrators. 319 spruce St. Redwood City, CA. 94063.
He travels around the world with his system. The last I heard about
him, he was going to Germany.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  2 Nov 92 15:33:55 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Aura People: If you will take note of the pictures of people
who are great ones in the bible, they are painted with haloes. That is
their way of showing the aura.
John Winston
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From: [e-mail] (Bob Manson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Nov 92 23:35:54 GMT
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Organization: The Ohio State University
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Nntp-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>I concluded that this made sense if the dissaperances were the results of
>winter storms and summer storms. I never double checked, wonder if I still

Naw, that's too simple an explanation. What's happening is that the
aliens get together twice an Earth year (why based on Earth's year, I
donno) and play "swap the Earth ships". They actually are supposed to
build fullsize models of Earth's planes and ships, and trade them
(collect the whole set!) but some aliens don't have the time,
patience, skill or inclination to do this & just steal actual Earth
models. I know; I asked an alien once.

I should point out that this probably isn't a serious post (unlike
Rich's very good point), but sometimes people just can't accept the
easy explanations...so here's a good conspriacy theory for you.
(Original theory designed by Mowgli A., with additional nuances and
flourishes added by me to make it plausible).
                            Bob
[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Chris Mojica)
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: North Carolina State University
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 23:00:14 GMT
Lines: 12

Didn't the Navy, in WWII, use high magnetic fields to try to render their ships
nearly invisible to radar in the Philadelphia Experiment.  I don't think it
made the ship crumple up into a twisted piece of metal.

-Chris

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Email: [e-mail] | Computer and Technologies Theme Prg|
|        [e-mail]          |   North Carolina State University  |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)
Subject: VCR Alert!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: A Canadian UFO case on Unsolved Mysteries
Keywords: Canada, UFO, NBC
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 22:03:29 GMT
Lines: 32

VCR Alert!

On the Wed., Nov 4th, edition of Unsolved Mysteries on NBC, there will
be a segment about a largely-ignored classic CE2 case which occurred in
Canada in 1967.  The Condon Report lists it as Case #22, and officially
categorizes it as "unexplained".

Briefly, a prospector encountered two saucers.  One landed nearby, and
he watched it for a hour as it rested only 150 feet from him on a rock
outcropping.  He heard voices coming from a small doorway which opened
in its side.  He walked up to it, thinking it was a secret American
test vehicle.  He touched the side with his work glove, and the
rubberized glove melted.  Inside, he could see a computer-like array of
flashing lights.  Suddenly, the door closed, the object rotated, and he
found himself looking at an "exhaust grille".  He was hit with blast of
hot gas which set his clothes on fire and gave him 1st-degree burns.

Investigations found radioactive debris in a circular area.  Large
chunks of radioactive silver were found at the site.  The Mayo Clinic
report suggested he was not a pathological liar.  Today, 25 years
later, he still sticks to his story.

The case has everything a UFO buff would want: radiation, physical
traces, a burned witness, government and military investigations, etc.

I was on the set with NBC.  Could be a goodie!  Nice computer animation
of the saucer zapping the witness, and a stunt man set on fire!

--
Chris Rutkowski - [e-mail]
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
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From: [e-mail] (KSC - Firefox)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: rapture
Date: 3 Nov 92 00:57:05 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <40f402r=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

In article <40f402r=[e-mail]>, nmt@NSA writes:

|>     Hey you, DEVIL WORSHIPER!!!!!
|>
|>     At least show some respect regarding other people's belief.  I personally
|>never believed that the rapture would occur on the 28th of October.  But,
|>if that is what others believed, I just leave it at that.  THERE HAS TO BE
|>A LIMIT FOR EVERYTHING.  THERE ARE CERTAIN SUBJECTS THAT ONE CAN NOT JOKE
|>ABOUT, and religious belief is certainly one of them.
|>     Maybe your parents never taught you anything, but being an adult (or are
|>you?????) you should know better than joking in such trashy manner.  Perhaps
|>you are just too modern that there is no more moral value left in your head
|>which probably is already full of garbage and trash.
|>     BE SILENT YOU IMMORAL FOOL!!!!!  I despised creatures like you.  It must
|>be creatures like you that create and promote the immorality in the society
|>to day, and poison the minds of the youngs.


    Jeepers H KRIST!
Who says religion can't be joked about?  If you have an open mind, then
you can bloody take it on the chin and laugh. Geez, I hate miserable
people that can't appreciate humor. Open your damn mouth one day and
instead of sprouting shit, laugh!

    Immoral fool? Creatures? Unless you come from a different branch
of evolution then me and all the rest of the world ... (think I'll
leave that as that).  Yes, I DESPISE PEOPLE (note the word - I have more
decency then YOU) THAT THINKS THEY ARE HIGH AND MIGHTY AND THEIR BELIEVES
IS THE ONLY ONE EVERYONE SHOULD FLOCK TO. Well, up yours and your bunch!
I believe in what I believe in and no one else have to, I can live with
that and I can live with others and be friends with them too!

    Go crawl back under your rock.

Ok, so I apologise for name calling, but my words stand.

Kevin Cheng

 +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |     Kevin Cheng ...aka Firefox         [e-mail]     |
 |                    Aerospace Engineering ..... RMiT                     |
 | Together since the world began, the madman and the lover.               |
 |     Discovered by Allied troops written on a latrine wall at Dachau     |
 +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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From: [e-mail] (KSC - Firefox)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: rapture in flames
Date: 3 Nov 92 01:09:58 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

On an afterthought, maybe I should send the dude the purity.1500 test

 +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |     Kevin Cheng ...aka Firefox         [e-mail]     |
 |                    Aerospace Engineering ..... RMiT                     |
 | Together since the world began, the madman and the lover.               |
 |     Discovered by Allied troops written on a latrine wall at Dachau     |
 +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Nov 92 02:19:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Max Elliot) writes:
=From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Bjoern Tore Sund):
=  One thing is for certain:
=
=   If the races in question are alien, then likely so is their entire
=   system of reasoning.  For us to discuss the logistics of their
=   behaviour in terrestrial terms is nonsense. None of what they do or
=   do not do may *ever* make sense to us even were they to try and
=   explain.

Maybe they are different in ways we cannot imagine. I don't think it is pure
nonsense to try and discuss logistics of their behavior. The laws of physics
apply to the Greys the same way as they do to us. The vast distances between
the stars makes an interstellar trip a big logistical problem even if they
do have some kind of FTL drive.

As for thought patterns of an alien being, yes you do have a point. We have a
handicap in deducing that since the only known intelligence to make a model of
is ourselves. That does not mean we can't try.

Also, in my experience, the "we can't understand them so why bother thinking
about it" argument is usually used as an excuse against uncomfortable questions
raised by skeptics. When someone points out that a UFO breaks the sound barrier
w/o making sonic booms s/he is told that the XTs must have technology beyond
our comprehension so s/he can't hope to speculate about it. When somebody tries
to comprehend abduction theories one is told that XTs are so alien that it is
hopeless to try and understand it. This allows somebody to give this sort of
data as evidence of alien landings on the planet and easily dismiss counter
theories because the skeptic is not allowed to present an alternative view.

You might also remember that "we can't understand them" has often been used as
an excuse to oppress or exterminate others because they are different. Check
our race's history. Oh, but we can't use that can we? ;)
=
=-Max


--
Patrick Chester            |----------------------------------------------------
[e-mail] |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
Politically Incorrect      |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Future Lunar Colonist      |"The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us
#^%$!! Militarist          |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
(Of the Sun Tzu mentality) |----------------------------------------------------
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Nov 92 02:24:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Lines: 32

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Opera_Ghost) writes:
=Actually, the arrogance comes from people that think that humans are so special
=that they are the only things worthy of higher-level intellegence in the
=universe.  That wasn't a flame towards anyone, just a thought.

If you mean the fools that think humans are the ONLY intelligent life in the
universe then I agree. That was a mild flame.

=
=I think the purpose of the outside interest would be in History and Sociology.
=If you think about it, a historian or socialogist would have a blast if they
=could watch a young civilization advance from one age to another. (i.e. early
=technology to space age)

Would be interesting. But you'd better have a Prime Directive (a la Star Trek)
to keep from damaging that culture or making them so xenophobic that they come
after your survey vessels. Sure, their tech may be low but everybody gets lucky
once in a while.

=
=
=Later!
=C J Rogers


--
Patrick Chester            |----------------------------------------------------
[e-mail] |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
Politically Incorrect      |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Future Lunar Colonist      |"The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us
#^%$!! Militarist          |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
(Of the Sun Tzu mentality) |----------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
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From: [e-mail] (Len Moskowitz)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 21:05:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC
Lines: 19

John Winston writes:

> ..."And the sons of God found the daughters of earth fair, and
>took them to wife." Thus "fell" Adam and his race to become enmeshed in the
>cycle of birth and rebirth.  [So Adam and his people mated with the people
>already on the Earth and we are their progeny.]

This whole story is based on a mistranslation from the Hebrew.
"Elohim" means a force or power that rules.  When used to refer to
G-d, it refers to G-d's capacity as ruler of all creation including
all the natural forces.  It can just as well refer to human kings and
judges (see Psalms).

Unfortunately those who translated the Torah didn't do a very good job
and they left the door open for fantasies like this one.

--
Len Moskowitz
[e-mail]
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  2 Nov 1992 22:10:20 -0500
From: Andrew Todd Weinstein <[e-mail]>
Subject: FTP site seems to be down
Lines: 11



What happened to phoenix.oulu.fi,  it seems to be down or something, when
I try a ping phoenix.oulu.fi, I get uknown host

I know it used to work.  Is the site down? and if it is, why?

Is there another ftp site that carries similar info that phoenix.oulu.fi did
on ufo's, or had info mirrored to it from phoenix.oulu.fi????


Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  2 Nov 1992 22:11:18 -0500
From: Andrew Todd Weinstein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Request: repost of saucer info
Lines: 4


Can someone please repost the info on how to build a flying saucer based
on a patent? I would really appreciate it.

Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  2 Nov 1992 22:42:36 -0500
From: Andrew Todd Weinstein <[e-mail]>
Subject: phoenix.oulu.fi
Lines: 4


Forget about that last post I made about the ftp site being down, it seems
to be up now.

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!warwick!coventry!esi102
From: [e-mail] (The Magician)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races? - the paranoia theory
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Nov 92 11:00:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news user)
Organization: Coventry University Mud Fanatics and general loonies.
Lines: 37
Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysk

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Opera_Ghost) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Patrick Chester) writes:
>>One question about this list. Why are so many different starfaring races
>>interested in what must be to them a primitive backwater planet. It seems
>>pretty arrogant for one to think that we, a race that has barely achieved
>>spaceflight to rank so high on the agendas of 6+ starfaring races.
>>
>>Just wondering.
>
>Actually, the arrogance comes from people that think that humans are so special
>that they are the only things worthy of higher-level intellegence in the
>universe.  That wasn't a flame towards anyone, just a thought.
>
>I think the purpose of the outside interest would be in History and Sociology.
>If you think about it, a historian or socialogist would have a blast if they
>could watch a young civilization advance from one age to another. (i.e. early
>technology to space age)
>

But if this is true, then that means that they are probably monitoring this
very News group (maybe even posting, but i doubt it), just to see if us
humans have anything interesting to say about them. They could make quite
a good comedy out of it sometimes (if they have an emotion/art/whatever which
is similar)

So a big hello to all you starfareing races out there, and dont hesitate
to pop in for a cuppa if your in the area.

But seriously, any ideas, are they watching YOU ?

|Tim - The Magician - [e-mail]                                    |
|Information systems engineer 2nd year but otherwise clueless                 |
|Thomas looked at the burning circle and said 'I expect we're supposed to     |
|battle through the fire, take the boat, evade whatever lurks below the water |
|water,  then  defeat all those warriors, just to reach the tower.'           |
|'That looks like what we're supposed to do'  sighed Pug. 'But I think not.'  |

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!news.bbn.com!bu.edu!dartvax!Benito.E.Villanueva
From: [e-mail] (Benito E. Villanueva)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Advice Wanted: Good Unbiased Books Anywhere?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Nov 92 07:28:16 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (The News Manager)
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Lines: 13
X-Posted-From: [e-mail]

Hi everyone, I've always been interested in ET phenomena but whenever I
try to do research in the library, I have always ended up with some
nice coffee table articles in Discover or Omni (The Playboy magazines
of the scientific world). What I would like to get is a book that
focuses on many topics ranging from UFO sightings and crashes, to
abductions, mutilations, crop circles... on and on. I would like a book
that is unbiased and just reports the facts instead of being
sensationalist or critical. I figured people on this list would know
what is best. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in
advance,

Steven Villanueva
Dartmouth College
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12470 alt.alien.visitors:10731 sci.skeptic:33439
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  3 Nov 92 06:31:08 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear People: Remember today is tuesday and for the people in Europe
be sure and be ready for the OOBE that will be on wednesdy here in the
USA (1100 pm Standard Pacific Time). We will be going to the Shensi
Pyramids near Sian 43,600 years ago or whenever they were built.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12471 alt.alien.visitors:10732
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  3 Nov 92 06:35:03 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Pyramid Watchers: How about those pyramids folks. Two of those
pyramids are larger than the Great Pyramid of Egypt and it was
one of the Wonders of the ancient and modern world.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12472 alt.alien.visitors:10733 alt.religion.kibology:4432
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  3 Nov 92 06:37:31 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Big Foot Lovers:
I'll look around and see if I can find some of my old information
about the Sex Life of the Big Foot.
John Winston
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: October 28th
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Distribution: alt
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 03:07:33 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>One thing's for sure, Don Allen hasn't been seen around here lately!


You rang? I've been lurking for a while watching you funny guys :-)

Funny thing is..I can't believe how many people were suckered into
this "rapture" thread. Clearly, any one can see that this was yet
another clever ploy by the Draco lizards for their afternoon snacks..


Hehehe...

Don









Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!peora!tous!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: Info for the FAQ: UFO LIBRARY from fido.ufo
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 03:23:37 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 52

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mitchell Porter) writes:
>Bravo on the FAQ! An excellent compilation. However, there *is* another
>UFO newsgroup, at least here at Nyx BBS - but I suspect what is happening
>is that FidoNet echoes are being groped into a newsgroup format. Anyhow,
>what follows is from fido.ufo about a week or two ago.
>
>Path: mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!scicom!nemsis!f17.n15.z1.NEMSIS!Ken.Willoughby
>From: [e-mail] (Ken Willoughby)
>Newsgroups: fido.ufo
>Subject: UFO LIBRARY
>Message-ID: <12364.2AD9C93D@nemsis>
>Date: 9 Oct 92 15:37:24 GMT
>Sender: ufgate@nemsis (newsout1.26)
>Organization: FidoNet node 1:15/17 - The Swap Meet, Truth or Consequences NM
>Lines: 32
>
>The  beginners  to  UFO studies keep asking the same kind of
>questions of the old time investigators. For this reason,  I
>have kept this UFO LIBRARY of files to answer these beginner
>questions.   I  try  to  keep  the  library  fairly current.
>Regarding the UFO LIBRARY that I mentioned, it  is  made  of
>over  500  files  in  ZIP  format  on 6 disks [3.5 inch both
>DOUBLE DENSITY or  HIGH DENSITY]. From disk #1 to  disk  #5,
>the  filenames  are  in  alphabetical  order.   To  find  an
>interesting file to read, I use  the  file  UFOFILES.ZIP  on
>disk #5 and file FILES.BBS on the UFO INFO disk as sort of a

>KEN WILLOUGHBY
>BOX 317
>FAIRACRES, NEW MEXICO 88033.
>    Any donations will help pay postage and mailers.
>
>--- Maximus 2.00
> * Origin: The Swap Meet--T or C, NM [phone] (1:15/17)

This is a good deal folks..my suggestion is to follow up on it.

Ken has been posting this every week for the last 3 years on
the Fidonet backbone "UFO" conference. He's widely regarded as an
excellent source of information; much more than you can winnow
from reading here :-)

Also, some of you who are more adventurous can dial up the MUFONET
BBS at 901-785-4943 and gain access to well over 50 megs of UFO
text files; sighting data gathered by state. It's highly recommended!

Unfortunately, it's *not* available via FTP, but a LD call. Well
worth it as an archive source, in my opinion.

Don


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!peora!tous!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: October Surprise
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 03:27:46 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>To all those people predicting an October surprise, October has come
>and gone, and yet nothing significant has happened (at least publicly
>not including SETI).  So, why has nothing happened?
>Later,
>Ethan Haslett
>[e-mail]


That was before Ross Perot :-) :-)

Do you suppose the real "surprise" just might be what happens with
the Banks _after_ the election?

Hmmmmm...


Don


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Tagi
From: [e-mail] (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Where did everyone go?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  3 Nov 92 08:29:01 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 42

Excuse me....


I was told that this was a possible source of explanation for what has
just happened to me.  I hope that this is true.  The heading for this
collection seems appropriate for my query, thus I post...


I woke up late last Wednesday morning and everyone in my house had
left.  This was somewhat unusual, you see, because not only are my
mother and sister generally later risers than I, my grandmother hasn't
left the house in 6 months (last time she had to visit the hospital
because the nurse was ill).

I called my mom's work, hoping she'd just gone in early and they said
that many people would never be coming in again, including my mother!
I didn't understand.  I thought she'd been fired or something and that
she must be out of the house because she'd been so upset.  The Church
Publication agency must've been in pretty hard times if they had to
fire their volunteers.

After phoning many of my friends I reached a handful and discovered
that they had a similar problem as myself.  Many of our friends and
family seem to have suddenly disappearred that morning sometime
(about 10 am?) and we've reported the details to the police.  I asked
in another newsgroup and was called a liar and told to come here
because of some sort of 'rapture' date.

Now I'm aware of the Bible and its stories of the rapture, but what
is the explanation for that particular date?  And has anyone else
had an experience like that of myself and my friends?  Did the
rapture occur on October 28th?  I hope not, because this would
mean that I'm left behind as one of the unchosen.

I hope somebody has more information.  I'm now living in a temporary
home until my parents are found or a foster home is arranged.  If
there's anybody who knows more, I'd like to hear about it.  Thanks.



Little Jimmy Foster
Smalltown, Iowa
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Advice Wanted: Good Unbiased Books Anywhere?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Nov 92 16:33:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 25
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

Steven,

There is a plethora of information out there, unfortunately most public
libraries do not have good or updated information. I suggest you find a
good
(for lack of a better word) NewAge/Occult bookstore. They usually will
have a good selection & don't mind people hanging around reading their
material.

A good book that I highly recommend is "Clear Intent" By Lawrence &
Greenwood.
This book is very important & will shed some light on the obvious coverup
that is occuring. I think they might have changed the title of it though.

Rod


--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495
From: [e-mail] (Opera_Ghost)
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 16:27:23 GMT
Lines: 36

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Patrick Chester) writes:
>=I think the purpose of the outside interest would be in History and Sociology.
>=If you think about it, a historian or socialogist would have a blast if they
>=could watch a young civilization advance from one age to another. (i.e. early
>=technology to space age)


>
>Would be interesting. But you'd better have a Prime Directive (a la Star Trek)
>to keep from damaging that culture or making them so xenophobic that they come
>after your survey vessels. Sure, their tech may be low but everybody gets lucky
>once in a while.

That would quite likely be part of their scientific procedure.  You see, there
is a fundemental doctrine we were discussing in Biology the other day.  It
states that in order for a subjects *true* nature to be distinguished, then it
must be observed undisturbed.  That may be where Mr. Roddenberry got his
Prime Directive.

>
>=
>=
>=Later!
>=C J Rogers
>
>
>--
>Patrick Chester            |----------------------------------------------------
>[e-mail] |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
>Politically Incorrect      |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
>Future Lunar Colonist      |"The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us
>#^%$!! Militarist          |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
>(Of the Sun Tzu mentality) |----------------------------------------------------

Later!
C J Rogers
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495
From: [e-mail] (Opera_Ghost)
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 16:31:21 GMT
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Chris Mojica) writes:
>Didn't the Navy, in WWII, use high magnetic fields to try to render their ships
>nearly invisible to radar in the Philadelphia Experiment.  I don't think it
>made the ship crumple up into a twisted piece of metal.
>
>-Chris


I think this crumpling cars/planes argument is a misconception.  In general,
the magnetic fields that are discussed here are single whole fields.  When
discussing the crushed cans, the fields are two or more that are interacting to
pinch off in the space that the can occupies.

P.S.  Don't quote me on that, I am new to EM and magnetics.

Later!
C J Rogers



Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.mentorg.com!garyk!garyk
From: [e-mail] (Gary Kaminski)
Subject: Re: Where did everyone go?
Sender: [e-mail] (News User)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1992 17:04:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: garyk.mentorg.com
Organization: mentor
Keywords:
Followup-To:
Lines: 2

I must be gone too since I can't seem to get out of my site.
garyk
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!warwick!coventry!aph016
From: [e-mail] (ozzy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Nov 92 17:09:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news user)
Organization: Coventry University, Coventry, UK.
Lines: 29
Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysh

[stuff deleted and names of contributors, sorry]

>Well, as long as their tech is understandable to our physics we can build
>Orion-class ships and blow them away if they are hostile. Of course if their
>tech is so high that it seems like magic (as some people claim to explain some
>oddities about UFOs) then we are screwed.

IMHO, it might have something to do with the actual perception of said aliens,
that make them so different to us. For instance, take hearing, When we hear
some music that we like we think "thats nice isnt it", however, to an alien it
may sound horrible for a number of reasons, the physiology and mechanism of
their hearing may be that different, distorted beyond all belief. The
same could be said for eyesight, they may have another mechanism to facilitate
the same thing. Man is inspired by what he sees around him, in fact he may
try to mimmic those things he sees (ie flying and the like). In this way
the basis for their whole mathematics may be different, and the only
connection between them would be stuff like universal constants.

I realise that my use of terminology is severely limited, but
I am trying to make a general point here

>Just some more Deep Thoughts...

I'm not that good at abstract thoughts, so help would be appreciated!

>Patrick Chester            |----------------------------------------------------
>(Of the Sun Tzu mentality) |----------------------------------------------------

                          -ozzy
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Max Elliot)
Subject: Re: October Surprise
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 17:11:44 GMT
Lines: 23

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Don Allen):
> In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>>To all those people predicting an October surprise, October has come
>>and gone, and yet nothing significant has happened (at least publicly
>>not including SETI).  So, why has nothing happened?
>>Later,
>>Ethan Haslett
>>[e-mail]
>
>
> That was before Ross Perot :-) :-)
>
> Do you suppose the real "surprise" just might be what happens with
> the Banks _after_ the election?
>
> Hmmmmm...
>
>
> Don

  Yes, but now it would be the 'November Surprise'!
-Max

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!megatek!max
From: [e-mail] (Max Elliot)
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 17:25:56 GMT
Lines: 46

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Patrick Chester):
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Max Elliot) writes:
> =From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Bjoern Tore Sund):
> =  One thing is for certain:
> =
> =   If the races in question are alien, then likely so is their entire
> =   system of reasoning.  For us to discuss the logistics of their
> =   behaviour in terrestrial terms is nonsense. None of what they do or
> =   do not do may *ever* make sense to us even were they to try and
> =   explain.
>
> Maybe they are different in ways we cannot imagine. I don't think it is pure
> nonsense to try and discuss logistics of their behavior. The laws of physics
> apply to the Greys the same way as they do to us. The vast distances between
> the stars makes an interstellar trip a big logistical problem even if they
> do have some kind of FTL drive.

  Discussing their technology is quite different than discussing their
  behavior. I agree that they are (likely) subject to the same set of
  physical laws that we are, at least to some degree. (they may have
  found ways around most of the 'laws' we hold common) In this sense
  it is reasonable to theorize about their forms of travel, biochemistry
  etc.
>
> As for thought patterns of an alien being, yes you do have a point. We have a
> handicap in deducing that since the only known intelligence to make a model of
> is ourselves. That does not mean we can't try.
>
  omitted...
> Patrick Chester            |----------------------------------------------------

  Yes, Patrick, of course we can try to discuss their behavior. I would
  hasten to add, however, that this sort of discussion would be based on
  the weakest of hypotheses, and very little evidence. We have some albeit
  shaky evidence of their behavior, but absolutely *no* background data
  to clue us in as to their *motivation*. i.e. we don't know about their
  culture, religion, whatever...

  We can argue that they do or don't regularly behave one way or another.
  But, it just seems silly to theorize about whether or not they plan to
  enslave the entire race.  If we had some *evidence*, it might be worth
  discussing. I, for one, don't believe that we can really know these sorts
  of things. (not yet, anyway)

  Cheers,
-Max
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Jon Luckey)
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 17:10:05 GMT
Lines: 20

[e-mail] (Ray Rooney)  writes:

[discussion of Mr Wizard type imploding soda can experiment deleted]

>And this field affects non-ferrous materials? Aluminum is so
>non-reactive (magnetically) that it is routinely used for coil forms.
>?????

>Or is something other than magnetism at work here?

No, its magnetism.  Electromagnetism.  Aluminum is a conductor, and
a changing magnetic field produces eddy currents in a conductor that
produce an opposing magnetic field.  The so called 'skin effect'.

This is what produces the sheilding effect of a faraday cage, the
opposing magnetic fields generated by eddy currents in the surrounding
conductor.  The effectiness of the shield is goverened by the rate
of change in the field and the internal resistance on the conductors.


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Subject: Re: Where did everyone go?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Too bad!
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 18:50:12 GMT
Lines: 17

Little Jimbo,

HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! Too bad they didn't
take your USENET access as well;->

Rod


--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$




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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Nov 92 18:57:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 47
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com



In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Patrick Chester)
writes:
>=I think the purpose of the outside interest would be in History and
Sociology.
>=If you think about it, a historian or socialogist would have a blast if
they
>=could watch a young civilization advance from one age to another. (i.e.
early
>=technology to space age)


>
>Would be interesting. But you'd better have a Prime Directive (a la Star
Trek)
>to keep from damaging that culture or making them so xenophobic that they
come
>after your survey vessels. Sure, their tech may be low but everybody gets
lucky
>once in a while.

>>That would quite likely be part of their scientific procedure.  You see,
there
>>is a fundemental doctrine we were discussing in Biology the other day.
It
>>states that in order for a subjects *true* nature to be distinguished,
then it
>>must be observed undisturbed.  That may be where Mr. Roddenberry got his
>>Prime Directive.

If this is true, they should turn out the lights @ night & stay cloaked
during the day. They are showing themselves for a reason or there
propulsion systems do not allow for lightless flight. Why? Lets expand on
this.

Rod


--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
[phone]    |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



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From: [e-mail] (Benno Eichmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races? Which was alien when?... Greys & karma?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Nov 92 18:12:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Lines: 57

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Patrick Chester) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Max Elliot) writes:
>=From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Bjoern Tore Sund):
>=  One thing is for certain:
>=
>=   If the races in question are alien, then likely so is their entire
>=   system of reasoning.  For us to discuss the logistics of their
>=   behaviour in terrestrial terms is nonsense. None of what they do or
>=   do not do may *ever* make sense to us even were they to try and
>=   explain.

>Maybe they are different in ways we cannot imagine. I don't think it is pure
>nonsense to try and discuss logistics of their behavior. The laws of physics
>apply to the Greys the same way as they do to us. The vast distances between
>the stars makes an interstellar trip a big logistical problem even if they
>do have some kind of FTL drive.

>As for thought patterns of an alien being, yes you do have a point. We have a
>handicap in deducing that since the only known intelligence to make a model of
>is ourselves. That does not mean we can't try.

>Also, in my experience, the "we can't understand them so why bother thinking
>about it" argument is usually used as an excuse against uncomfortable questions
>raised by skeptics. When someone points out that a UFO breaks the sound barrier
>w/o making sonic booms s/he is told that the XTs must have technology beyond
>our comprehension so s/he can't hope to speculate about it. When somebody tries
>to comprehend abduction theories one is told that XTs are so alien that it is
>hopeless to try and understand it. This allows somebody to give this sort of
>data as evidence of alien landings on the planet and easily dismiss counter
>theories because the skeptic is not allowed to present an alternative view.

>You might also remember that "we can't understand them" has often been used as
>an excuse to oppress or exterminate others because they are different. Check
>our race's history. Oh, but we can't use that can we? ;)

Could it be that these Greys might be a race that suffered a genetic
injury to there collective society at our ancestors hands, and now feel
compeled to associatively(karmicly ?) seek us out, and possibly use those who, even thought unknown to themselves, were responsible for such damage to them through somthing like nuclear radiation war devices?   Is something not being told
about our ancestrial history?

What would such implications be if true, if the Greys once had a viable
body not much unlike ours before such devistation to their planet in
a star-wars like setting?


>=
>=-Max


>--
>Patrick Chester            |----------------------------------------------------
>[e-mail] |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
>Politically Incorrect      |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
>Future Lunar Colonist      |"The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us
>#^%$!! Militarist          |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
>(Of the Sun Tzu mentality) |----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news!wrs.com!davidj
From: [e-mail] (David Jones)
Subject: From: nmt@NSA
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Manager)
Nntp-Posting-Host: erra
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 19:50:34 GMT
Lines: 29

[e-mail] (Jeff) writes:

> Did anyone notice this persons address?
>
> From: nmt@NSA
> Subject: Re: rapture
> Date: 30 Oct 92 19:25:42 GMT
> Organization: ACM Development
>
> Is this "the" NSA?

Well, I did a telnet to nic.ddn.mil and did a whois on NSA.  This is the
response:

        Whois: NSA
        National Security Agency (NSA)
        Network Services Agency (NET-NSA) NSA        192.190.64.0

I tried telnet'ing to this internet address.  I couldn't get in.  Oh well.
Maybe someone can try ftp`ing?  I wonder if they have an anonymous ftp for
UFO or extraterrestrial information.  Should I try to find the CIA`s address?
How about the the NRO?  Maybe one of them that is monitoring this newsgroup
will share it with us?  Please?  What government agency has information that
would be of interest to this newsgroup that we can access - legally?

-------------------
  David W. Jones
  [e-mail]
-------------------
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October Surprise
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Nov 92 23:25:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 17


    [e-mail] writes:
    To all those people predicting an October surprise, October
    has come and gone, and yet nothing significant has happened
    (at least publicly not including SETI).  So, why has nothing
    happened?

... it did, you just missed it.  You might have noticed a blurb about
Caspar Wineberger?  That was the "October Surprise" this time around
(what?  You *really* think the special prosecuter just found it, and
didn't sit on it until he thought he could do the most damage?  Come
now...)

   Of course, since it was a Democrat thing, it couldn't be anything
underhanded, right?

Charles "Registered Democrat, thank you very much" McGrew
From: [e-mail] (Keith Spears)
Sender: [e-mail]
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Monuments of Mars
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1992 19:49:00 -0600
Lines: 30

Has anyone attempted to make a connection between current UFO sightings
and the information presented by Richard Hoagland in his book _The
Monuments of Mars_ regarding the possible artifacts in the Cydonia
region?  Having seen two videotapes of him presenting this
information (one filmed at the NASA Lewis Research Center, the other at
a U.N. address), I wouldn't be surprised if there were some link.

To summarize, interest in the "Face" on Mars ended up with a closer
examination of the entire Cydonia region, which revealed a number of
unusual features - including a five-sided pyramid with bilateral
symmetry.  Measurement and comparison of the angles between significant
features of the region brought out a surprising array of mathematical
constants, including pi, e, the square roots of the first five positive
integers, etc.  This lead (in ways which are beyond my current
comprehension of higher math) to a theory of energy involving
circumscribed tetrahedrons on a planetary scale, among other things.

If the objects in the Cydonia region are, in fact, alien artifacts, how
might that affect the current study of UFOs?  For that matter, if the
objects in the Cydonia region are alien artifacts, will we ever actually
find out?  Mars Observer might* get high resolution photographs of the
area, but no promises have been made.

(Incidentally, if anyone knows or could find an e-mail address for
Richard Hoagland, I would be greatly appreciative.)

 * OLX 2.1 TD * The Truth will make you flee.


 * Origin: THE CITY LIGHTS <612-633-1366> <MULTINODE> <14.4> (1:282/108)
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Allen Coody)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Flagstaff Craft
Date: 4 Nov 1992 00:30:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I posted a while back for information relating to a sighting in the
Flagstaff, Arizona area. Well, what was seen was evidently what I saw
this past weekend over the Painted Desert region northeast of Flagstaff.
I feel that it may be an experimental craft of some form and I hope that
some reader may be able to help me in it's identification.  What I saw at
first appeared at night, it looked like aircraft landing lights heading directly
towards me for about five minutes slowly getting brighter.  It made a slow
right turn, almost if in a glide and then I saw that the craft was slightly
illuminated by three white lights, disclosing a triangular body.  After it
slowly glided away, about a mile off from my position, a jet engine came on
for about three minutes and it speeded up slightly and then the engine shut
down again.  Sound Familiar, anyone familiar with experimental craft?
--
Juan de los Caballeros
Time Traveler 1540-?
NAU CFN ETC...        "The Past Lives within the Present" Nemo nd
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: From: nmt@NSA
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Nov 92 00:42:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 23


    [e-mail] (David Jones) writes:

    Well, I did a telnet to nic.ddn.mil and did a whois on NSA.
    This is the response:

            Whois: NSA
            National Security Agency (NSA)
            Network Services Agency (NET-NSA) NSA        192.190.64.0

    I tried telnet'ing to this internet address.  I couldn't get in.

... since 192.190.64.0 isn't actually the nsa, but some sort of agency
in Inverness, Scotland, that isn't all that surprising.  As far as I
know, there aren't any nsa (or cia) sites on the internet that you
could connect to (they like playing in their own little ponds, I
expect.)

   In any case, from the headers, Mr. "nmt" is actually from
amdahl; JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com specifically.


Charles
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From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: HELP! LOST MY FAQ
Keywords: FAQ
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Nov 92 22:43:11 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 12


I don't know what happened! I lost the first post of the FAQ. I have the
others and compiled them into one report but the first one is missing.
could you please re-post them Mike? or send me the first one via email?
Id be ever so grateful ;-)
                          Denise  ([e-mail])

--
=========================================================================
||%%%%||         Denise Solis -- [e-mail]       ||%%%%||
||%%%%||  Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty  ||%%%%||
=========================================================================
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From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rapture
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Nov 92 22:48:24 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (KSC - Firefox) writes:
>In article <40f402r=[e-mail]>, nmt@NSA writes:
>|>     Hey you, DEVIL WORSHIPER!!!!!
>    Go crawl back under your rock.

I suggest you two take this offline and let the rest of us out of it.
You both loose credibility with all this name calling.


--
=========================================================================
||%%%%||         Denise Solis -- [e-mail]       ||%%%%||
||%%%%||  Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty  ||%%%%||
=========================================================================
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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  3 Nov 92 19:30:31 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 38

Subjcct: Sexual Behavior of Bigfoot.
  If we are going to make a study of Bigfoot's sexual habits it may be good to
seek out a person who has been blessed by his services.  We don't have to go
far because a secretary by the name of Katie Martin claims to have had an
affair with a Bigfoot in 1987 and she says the outcome of the relationship
is little Kelly Kendall Martin - Her furry 4 year-old son. She calls her son
Littlefoot.
  Miss Martin's claims might sound farfetched but there is ample reason to
believe that they are rooted in fact.  For one thing Kelly Martin's head and
face are covered with brown hair. And physicians who have conducted tests on
the boy agree that his genetic makeup is only partly human and unlike any
thing they have ever seen.  Miss Martin says she came face to face with the
boy's hairy, 7 and one half foot Bigfoot father while on a solo camping trip
to Mt. Rainier NationaL Park in 1987.
  The woman fainted dead away at the sight of the creature. But she regained
conciousness when the Bigfoot dribbled cool creek water on her face and
tenderly stroked her hair.
  "I wanted to scream or run but I couldn't because I was paralyzed with
fright," said Miss Martin.  The Bigfoot must have sensed my fear because he
started to whine like a puppy.
 It might not sound very logical, but the whining calmed me down. I felt like
he was trying to tell me that he wouldn't hurt me. And when I looked into
his face I could see compassion in his eyes.
  The Bigfoot eventually stood up and trotted into the forest. But in the days
that followed he returned to Miss Martin's camp with gifts of flowers,
berries and fresh fish that he apparently caught with his bare hands.
  By the end of the week the creature had started sleeping at the edge of her
camp. He couldn't or wouldn't speak.
  But Miss Martin began to feel that they were communicating through some sort
of telepathic link.
  I wasn't communicating with words. It was communication with feeling. It was
like being with somebody you love and not having to say anything because you
were perfectly content to be together. One thing led to another, but I
really don't want to get into that. Suffice to say that after we parted ways
at the end of my trip I came back to Seattle and learned that I was pregnant
with his baby.
End Part 1.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  3 Nov 92 19:37:06 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Earthians: I got the year wrong that the pyramid was made.
It was made 45,600 years ago.
John Winston
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  3 Nov 92 19:42:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Pyramid Lovers: I love to study the Great Pyramid of Egypt.
I was talking to a person by the name of Donald John Long lately
and he is going on a scientific trip over to study the Great
Pyramid of Egypt very soon.
John Winston
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From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Advice Wanted: Good Unbiased Books Anywhere?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Nov 92 05:24:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 49


    [e-mail] (Benito E. Villanueva)
    What I would like to get is a book that focuses on many topics
    ranging from UFO sightings and crashes, to abductions,
    mutilations, crop circles... on and on. I would like a book
    that is unbiased and just reports the facts instead of being
    sensationalist or critical.

Hmmm... I'm not really aware of a single book that covers everything,
but here are a couple of good books, taken from my (plug, plug) ufo
bibliography file, available for ftp on paul.rutgers.edu in pub/ufo:

The best -- currently out in paperback:

AUTHOR: Good, Timothy.
TITLE:  Above top secret :  the worldwide UFO cover-up / with a foreword by
        admiral of the Fleet, the Lord Hill-Norton GCB, Chief of Defence Staff
        1971-73.
        London :  Sidgwick & Jackson,  c1987.
        590 p., [16] leaves of plates :  ill., ports. ;  25 cm.
        Includes bibliographical references and index.
CALL #: TL789 .G66x

The best on FOIA documents - not sure of how available this still is:

AUTHOR:  Fawcett, Lawrence, and Barry J. Greenwood.
TITLE:   Clear intent : the government coverup of the UFO experience / Lawren>
PUBLISHER Englewood Cliffs, N.J. : Prentice-Hall, c1984.

But perhaps what you're looking for -- expensive ($75 each), but
thorough:

AUTHOR:  Clark, Jerome.
TITLE:   The UFO Encyclopedia, Volume 1: UFOs in the 1980s
PUBLISHER Detroit, Mich.: Apogee Books, c1990.


AUTHOR:  Clark, Jerome.
TITLE:   The UFO Encyclopedia, Volume 2: The Emergence of a
     Phenomenon: UFOs from the Beginning through 1959.
PUBLISHER Detroit, Mi : Omnigraphics, 1992, 433pp. ISBN 1-55888-301-0

... volume 3 (1960-1980) is due out in 1993.  As far as I know, these
are only available from "Omnigraphics", Penobscot Building, Detroit
MI, 1-800-234-1340)

Hope this helps,

Charles
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From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rod: Wouldn't Engine block serve as Shield?
Date: 4 Nov 1992 05:28:33 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchy.caltech.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Opera_Ghost) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Chris Mojica) writes:
> I think this crumpling cars/planes argument is a misconception.  In
general,
> the magnetic fields that are discussed here are single whole fields.
When
> discussing the crushed cans, the fields are two or more that are
interacting to
> pinch off in the space that the can occupies.
>
> P.S.  Don't quote me on that, I am new to EM and magnetics.
>

Actually, you are only generating one field.  The other field is being
generated by the can.

--
/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney          | "Well, if we were to build a   |
|                        |           giant badger..."     |
|                        |    - Monty Python and the      |
| [e-mail] |      search for the Holy Grail |
\---------------------------------------------------------/
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From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: rapture in flames
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sex,alt.sex.stories,rec.humor,alt.flame
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 06:12:49 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (KSC - Firefox) writes:
>On an afterthought, maybe I should send the dude the purity.1500 test

Better yet, post it so we can all enjoy it!

By the way, thanks to whoever sent me the Green Golfball Joke.  But can
you please explain the part about the nun?

                            -- K.

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From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Monuments of Mars
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Nov 92 06:52:00 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Keith Spears) writes:
>Has anyone attempted to make a connection between current UFO sightings
>and the information presented by Richard Hoagland in his book _The
>Monuments of Mars_ regarding the possible artifacts in the Cydonia
>region?  Having seen two videotapes of him presenting this
>information (one filmed at the NASA Lewis Research Center, the other at
>a U.N. address), I wouldn't be surprised if there were some link.

We obviously have a new person in the group here:-)

Welcome! We spent months arguing about this and you just missed it.

One thing that I don't remember being pointed out is that the most current
or second most current UFO magazine has a big feature on RH and the Mars
monuments. It poo-poos the idea, but maybe Cooper is right. Maybe UFO
is CIA backed, and they are spoon-feeding us so we don't find out about
true mars history.

I often wonder if NASA did get close ups of the face, and it was man-made?
Would they show them to us? They have not shown us the UFO's the astronauts
saw....
Jeff-
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Monuments of Mars
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Nov 92 08:00:40 GMT
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I read this book a number of years ago, and if I'm not mistaken, a number of
other possible artifacts have been found in regions outside of Cydonia
besides those listed in the book.  Does anyone know if anything has been
published on this subject since these discoveries?
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From: [e-mail] (Real life?!  Bahahahahah!!)
Subject: Re: rapture
References: <[e-mail]> <40f402r=[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net Noise owner)
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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 08:18:46 GMT
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nmt@NSA writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes:
>>
>>         Hey, I've experienced the rapture, (excuse me) the RAPTURE several
>> times and I didn't have to wait for Oct. 28.  Many of us modern folk call it
>> orgasm and it can be heavenly and almost as good as the second coming.  :)
>> Colleen
>> --
>> It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
>> The Crimson Bunion

>     Hey you, DEVIL WORSHIPER!!!!!

>     At least show some respect regarding other people's belief.  I personally
>never believed that the rapture would occur on the 28th of October.  But,
>if that is what others believed, I just leave it at that.  THERE HAS TO BE
>A LIMIT FOR EVERYTHING.  THERE ARE CERTAIN SUBJECTS THAT ONE CAN NOT JOKE
>ABOUT, and religious belief is certainly one of them.
>     Maybe your parents never taught you anything, but being an adult (or are
>you?????) you should know better than joking in such trashy manner.  Perhaps
>you are just too modern that there is no more moral value left in your head
>which probably is already full of garbage and trash.
>     BE SILENT YOU IMMORAL FOOL!!!!!  I despised creatures like you.  It must
>be creatures like you that create and promote the immorality in the society
>to day, and poison the minds of the youngs.


I would be most fascinated to discover whether or not your "open-mindedness"
extends to aspects of life other than religion.  As for devil worship, is
that or is that not another religion?  By calling somebody a devil worshipper
and then explaining you find them depraved is to say that devil worshippers
ARE depraved.  Is that not attacking another religion?  I just have this
nasty feeling that anything outside your own grim, narrow view of decency is
off-limits...Please do let me know if I'm in error.  I would be willing to
wager money that you find several of my lifestyle and personal choices too
"modern" to be decent.  Get a life.
--
Michael T. Chaffee        | Amateur Evil Genius        |  ______
[e-mail] | Professional Slapthologist |  \    /      HATE
Member, Universal Life Church, Sect of Loons           |   \  /    can never be
Annoyance Theatre Platinum Member                      |    \/    a FAMILY VALUE
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: [e-mail] (Lee Walton)
Subject: Topic Lost In Time
Cc: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 20:08:00 +0000
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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Why nearly is everybody talking about New Age, making up stupid stories, or
just being plain idiotic.

There are plenty of people about that are interested in the material evidence
proving the existence of UFOs. I am open minded and am trying to research the
subject from an objective viewpoint. So far, this group is a waste of time.
So people seem to believe anything, while others nothing.

Can anybody reccomend some good books on UFO research that are *OBJECTIVE*
rather than fictions made up by *SUBJECTIVE* cranks?

Lee Walton
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From: [e-mail] (Lee Walton)
Subject: alien races?
Cc: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 20:09:00 +0000
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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>Is it possible that these alien races are interested in the planet
>Earth and the life on the Earth as a natual resource. Should they
>decide to take over the planet, humans may decide to rebel. Currently
>taking bits and pieces may be serving them just fine.

Assuming that six or more ET races are visiting Earth, it is likely that they
have meet each other. The fact that they are not battling in our skies, one
would assume that they have co-operated in the study of Earth. Perhaps to
reveal something of their own origins. Or perhaps becuase they *CREATED*
mankind. Or perhaps in the hope that one day we will be stable enough to
include in their society.

Lee Walton
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From: [e-mail] (Mr B Natural)
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Encore Computer Corp., Fort Lauderdale FL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 14:45:04 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Subjcct: Sexual Behavior of Bigfoot.
> If we are going to make a study of Bigfoot's sexual habits it may be
>good to  seek out a person who has been blessed by his services.  We
don't have to go
> far because a secretary by the name of Katie Martin claims to have had an
> affair with a Bigfoot in 1987 and she says the outcome of the relationship
> is little Kelly Kendall Martin - Her furry 4 year-old son. She calls her son
> Littlefoot.
ETC ETC
> were perfectly content to be together. One thing led to another, but I
> really don't want to get into that. Suffice to say that after we parted ways
> at the end of my trip I came back to Seattle and learned that I was pregnant
> with his baby.
> End Part 1.
> John Winston.

And you know what they say about guys with big feet...

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone
From: [e-mail] (Travis Stone)
Subject: >>>Alien Races: Thought Processes Incomprehensible?
Message-ID: <stone.720886089@cwis>
Keywords: Speculation, just speculation...
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 14:08:09 GMT
Lines: 50



Perhaps I reason falsely and mayhaps recklessly, but:

It seems to me that thought processes are chemical in nature,
and not merely a matter of axons and dendrites sparking across
synapses like an uncountable matrix of organic spark-plugs; if
this be so, and if we make what appears to be the reasonable
assumption that "they" are made up of the same chemicals we are,
with the added proviso that the same chemical reactions take place
"there" as here on Earth, then might it not be plausible to
suppose that the fundamental chemical workings of "their" brains
is similar enough to ours that we may attribute some (albeit
small) level of human-like motivation and logic to "their"
actions?

I realize that I may be falling into the logical trap of good
old-fashioned anthropomorphism, but I feel that a rough parallel
may be drawn between trying to deduce the causes/motivations of
alien behavior and those of animals here on Earth---as an example,
on a nature program on the Discovery Channel, they showed zebras
kicking a young wildebeest (or water buffalo, I forget which) to
death; the poor thing was separated from its mom, and was wandering
about, bawling its head off.  The explanation?  The zebras wanted
to silence the crying animal before it attracted the attention of
some predator.  The point here is that the folks who made this grave
pronouncement on zebra psychology proffered this explanation with
the air of one who is certain (at least in his own mind) that he
or she is right, period-paragraph, end of discussion.

Now, if we humans can become that comfortable with our deductions
concerning nonhuman, Earth-species behavior and motivations, might
we not be tempted to do the same for some spacefaring alien race
whose brain/body chemistry is not too far removed from our own?
And might there not be some small hope for success?  I freely
admit that all this is predicated upon a huge "if"---"if" they
are chemically similar to us, "if" the chemical reactions "they"
undergo are similar to the ones we undergo, "if" we can amass
enough observations to form a coherent picture before they land
in force and put us all on the menu---but, as the wisdom of the
ancients tells us: You gotta start SOMEWHERE.

As Joel Robinson (from Mystery Science Theater 3000) always says:

                  What do you think, Sirs?

                        And Ma'ams?

T.R. Stone
Interested in UFOs, Merely Speculating...
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Randolph)
Subject: Re: Flagstaff Craft
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References:   <[e-mail]>
Date:  4 NOV 92 09:53:12
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert Allen Coody) writes...
>
>It made a slow
>right turn, almost if in a glide and then I saw that the craft was slightly
>illuminated by three white lights, disclosing a triangular body.  After it
>slowly glided away, about a mile off from my position, a jet engine came on
>for about three minutes and it speeded up slightly and then the engine shut
>down again.  Sound Familiar, anyone familiar with experimental craft?
>--
>Juan de los Caballeros

Thanks for posting that. You have seen something remarkably similar to the now
famous UFO seen widely over Belgium. I've always taken the Belgian UFO for a
super-secret aircraft, and your sighting does much to confirm that, especially
the part about the jet engine.
-Tom R.   [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Hail Eris)
Subject: Re: Monuments of Mars
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 15:57:13 GMT
Lines: 12


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert Wilson) writes...
>
>I read this book a number of years ago, and if I'm not mistaken, a number of
>other possible artifacts have been found in regions outside of Cydonia
>besides those listed in the book.  Does anyone know if anything has been
>published on this subject since these discoveries?

I've got a hunch there is more than one face and that the Mars observer will
verify that and the existence of other artifacts.

Mary
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Hail Eris)
Subject: Re: >>>Alien Races: Thought Processes Incomprehensible?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Daemon)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 16:01:45 GMT
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In article <stone.720886089@cwis>, [e-mail] (Travis Stone) writes...
>
>Now, if we humans can become that comfortable with our deductions
>concerning nonhuman, Earth-species behavior and motivations, might
>we not be tempted to do the same for some spacefaring alien race
>whose brain/body chemistry is not too far removed from our own?
>And might there not be some small hope for success?  I freely
>admit that all this is predicated upon a huge "if"---"if" they
>are chemically similar to us, "if" the chemical reactions "they"
>undergo are similar to the ones we undergo, "if" we can amass
>enough observations to form a coherent picture before they land
>in force and put us all on the menu---but, as the wisdom of the
>ancients tells us: You gotta start SOMEWHERE.
>
>As Joel Robinson (from Mystery Science Theater 3000) always says:
>
>                  What do you think, Sirs?
>
>                        And Ma'ams?
>
>T.R. Stone
>Interested in UFOs, Merely Speculating...

I agree with you.  We (assuming 'they' exist of course) share a common
existence and all sentient things within existence have certain characteristics
in common.  If we can identify those characteristics and extrapolate on them
in a speculative manner, then we've got a good chance of gaining some sort
of understanding... or as you so aptly put it.. it's a beginning and you gotta
start somewhere.

mary


Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:33510 alt.paranormal:5961 alt.alien.visitors:10772
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From: [e-mail] (Mark Meyer)
Subject: Re: Jeane Dixon Predicts Bush Victory
Organization: TI DSEG, Spring Creek, Plano, Tx.
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Thu, 22 Oct 1992 02:16:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 14
Sender: [e-mail] (Mark Meyer)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 17:02:40 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
> Well, folks, it's official now. The Great Psychic has spoken: George
> Bush is going to be re-elected. In the tabloid "The Star", Oct. 20, 1992,
> she predicts that "George Bush ekes out a win."

    For those of you scoring at home, she was WRONG.

> And, because of the Perot factor, she says, Bush will "carry Texas by
> a small margin."

    She was RIGHT on this one.  I guess she didn't anticipate a
Democrat winning the Presidency without the help of Texas.
    Did she say anything else we could rip apart, er, check? :-)

--
Mark Meyer                                               | [e-mail] |
Texas Instruments, Inc.                                  +--------------------+
Every day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don't speak for TI.
        HI!  I'm a mutating signature virus.  You can resist helping me spread!
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Max Elliot)
Subject: Re: Flagstaff Craft
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 17:00:23 GMT
Lines: 22

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Robert Allen Coody):
>
> I posted a while back for information relating to a sighting in the
> Flagstaff, Arizona area. Well, what was seen was evidently what I saw
> this past weekend over the Painted Desert region northeast of Flagstaff.
> I feel that it may be an experimental craft of some form and I hope that
> some reader may be able to help me in it's identification.  What I saw at
> first appeared at night, it looked like aircraft landing lights heading directly
> towards me for about five minutes slowly getting brighter.  It made a slow
> right turn, almost if in a glide and then I saw that the craft was slightly
> illuminated by three white lights, disclosing a triangular body.  After it
> slowly glided away, about a mile off from my position, a jet engine came on
> for about three minutes and it speeded up slightly and then the engine shut
> down again.  Sound Familiar, anyone familiar with experimental craft?
> --
> Juan de los Caballeros
> Time Traveler 1540-?
> NAU CFN ETC...        "The Past Lives within the Present" Nemo nd

  Triangular body? Maybe a B2 Stealth Plane? Sounds like it. Quiet and
  with a good glide ratio.
-Max
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From: [e-mail] (Opera_Ghost)
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 17:14:23 GMT
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith) writes:

>If this is true, they should turn out the lights @ night & stay cloaked
>during the day. They are showing themselves for a reason or there
>propulsion systems do not allow for lightless flight. Why? Lets expand on
>this.
>
>Rod

There is the distinct possibility that they may be trying to clue us into their
existance without an actual landing.  Kind of a sociology experiment; they may
be testing what affect the appearance of their ships would have on this
planet's social systems.  They could also be getting rather careless.  One
could spend all day theorizing.  If only there was some way of actually
predicting an appearance...

Here's another thought - what if they hav actually been here for a very long
time, but were much more stealthy in the earlier times, or were mistaken for
signs from all powerful dieties of ancient religions.  Who knows what legends
have sprung up due to sightings.


Later!
C J Rogers
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Aliens.Part1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 17:30:26 GMT
Distribution: alt
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL
Lines: 18

According to [e-mail] (Chris Mojica):
>13 Crashed Alien Space Craft in U.S.A.

They fly millions of miles, then crash?  _Thirteen_ times?

>Of these 13 craft, one was found in Arizona, 11 were in New Mexico,
>and another had crashed in Nevada.

They always crash in remote areas, near places the U.S. government had
been using for testing experimental aircraft for decades before any of
these "alien" craft were found?

Coincidence?  I think NOT!

Bah.
--
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
   "I am truly as big a genius as all other Rush fans." -- Bruce Bufalini
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From: [e-mail] (Mr G S Sutherland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Monuments of Mars
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Nov 92 20:07:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff) writes:
+In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Keith Spears) writes:
+>Has anyone attempted to make a connection between current UFO sightings
+>and the information presented by Richard Hoagland in his book _The
+>Monuments of Mars_ regarding the possible artifacts in the Cydonia
+>region?  Having seen two videotapes of him presenting this
+>information (one filmed at the NASA Lewis Research Center, the other at
+>a U.N. address), I wouldn't be surprised if there were some link.
+
+We obviously have a new person in the group here:-)
+
+Welcome! We spent months arguing about this and you just missed it.
+
+One thing that I don't remember being pointed out is that the most current
+or second most current UFO magazine has a big feature on RH and the Mars
+monuments. It poo-poos the idea, but maybe Cooper is right. Maybe UFO
+is CIA backed, and they are spoon-feeding us so we don't find out about
+true mars history.
+
+I often wonder if NASA did get close ups of the face, and it was man-made?
+Would they show them to us? They have not shown us the UFO's the astronauts
+saw....
+Jeff-

You could also try the article in the recent Fortean Times, it compares the
site of the Mars Face and surrounding features with those of Avesbury (ie
Stonehenge) and the Great Pyramids. It suggests that the layout of the
features there is identical.

Graeme Sutherland.
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From: [e-mail] (Mr G S Sutherland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Flagstaff Craft
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Nov 92 20:11:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Randolph) writes:

+Thanks for posting that. You have seen something remarkably similar to the now
+famous UFO seen widely over Belgium. I've always taken the Belgian UFO for a
+super-secret aircraft, and your sighting does much to confirm that, especially
+the part about the jet engine.
+-Tom R.   [e-mail]

One theory that I've heard about the Belgian UFOs was from a French Science
magazine (sorry, I've forgotten its title), but it gave the explanation that
it was the test flights of the Stealth plane - at least that is what the US
Government had said....

Graeme Sutherland.
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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Subject: Re: Flagstaff Craft
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
References:   <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Randolph) writes:
|>
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert Allen Coody) writes...
|> >
|> >It made a slow
|> >right turn, almost if in a glide and then I saw that the craft was slightly
|> >illuminated by three white lights, disclosing a triangular body.  After it
|> >slowly glided away, about a mile off from my position, a jet engine came on
|> >for about three minutes and it speeded up slightly and then the engine shut
|> >down again.  Sound Familiar, anyone familiar with experimental craft?
|> >--
|> >Juan de los Caballeros
|>
|> Thanks for posting that. You have seen something remarkably similar to the now
|> famous UFO seen widely over Belgium. I've always taken the Belgian UFO for a
|> super-secret aircraft, and your sighting does much to confirm that, especially
|> the part about the jet engine.
|> -Tom R.   [e-mail]



Don't forget about the Hudson Valley sightings. Same general characteristics
as Belgium and the Flagstaff craft described above.


Leonard.




--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Monuments of Mars
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 21:19:44 GMT
Lines: 34

[e-mail] (Jeff) writes:

>I often wonder if NASA did get close ups of the face, and it was man-made?
>Would they show them to us? They have not shown us the UFO's the astronauts
>saw....

mars observer is going to take closeups of the 'face' and they are going
to show them. or at least they said they would. I rather believe they will,
but I tend to be allergic to conspiracy theories. whether these closeups
show that the cydonia formations are artificial, of course, remains to be
seen. if they do, I stand to win a bit of money. which reminds me.

the following people have placed bets with me:

[e-mail] (EDWARD CRAIG HYATT)
[e-mail] (Richard A. Schumacher)
[e-mail] (steve belczyk)
[e-mail] (Colleen Anderson)

if anyone else wants to place a bet, or if anyone else *has* placed a bet
and wants to remind me of it, please send me email forthwith. At some
point before mars observer arrives at mars I am going to stop taking
bets.

I am only taking bets wherein >I< am betting that the cydonia formations
are artificial. I am no longer taking bets at odds of less than 100 to 1
(ie, wherein I am putting up $1 (those of you who have placed bets at
lesser odds, our agreement still holds; this applies from here on out)).


all bets will be decided by mutual agreement between the two parties concerned,
ie, we will agree that the formations are either natural or artificial.

josh
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed,  4 Nov 1992 15:40:23 -0500
From: Mark Francis Stramaglia <[e-mail]>
Subject: UFO Report
Lines: 24

December 9, 1990; Opuana, New Jersey. 9:45 AM. On his way home from work
at the Fort Winnig military base, observer Earl Olagtsendu witnessed two
groups of 2-3 whirling discs of light flying at phenomenal speed toward
a prohibited area of the Opuana valley region. Each object seemed to be
changing position vertically by climbing or diving as if to hold
formation. Immediatly afterward, five oval-shaped  objects with lights
all around them flew in a V-formation for about 20 seconds in the same
direction, then made right angle turns and reversed course. One green
disc-shaped or round object was observed flying southwest for 15
minutes, with a vertically bobbing motion and sideways movements,
keeping well below the clouds on an erratic flight path. At the same
time, a silver saucer-shaped object with a glowing red bottom flew low
over a river and then climbed fast in a horizontal attitude. The witness
reports that approximately 9 minutes later he sighted a Goodyear blimp
flying just above the trees and suddenly moving straight up and leveling
off at an altitude of about 1400'. It was then joined by a second
unmarked blimp using the same strange flight path. The second blimp flew
away twice and each time returned to the first. After about 5 minutes
both were lost to sight behind dense cloud cover. A U.S. Navy P2V-5
patrol plane, a USAF B-47 jet bomber, and 6 California military
helicopters were also sighted flying low on the horrizon trailled by a
dark gray delta-shaped object with a fin on the top.

Case missing from  official files.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
Subject: Re: Where did everyone go?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 20:26:11 GMT
Lines: 36

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Garland O Burton) writes:
>i asked , long ago, if anyone had physical evidence.
>
>everyone said "no"
>
>end of topic.
>
>gb
>--
>[e-mail].............copyright 1992 gary burton........

What would you consider physical evidence? Would you consider narratives of
several thousand un-ufoenthusiasts? Would you consider unexplained (and
previously unknown) scars and bruises from a large percentage (>30) of
the same people?

One researcher, which wrote a book that I read, said something to the
effect of: "If we were working on a murder case, the evidence (though
not hard physical) would be compelling enough to convict the richest
criminal with the smartest lawyer.  He wouldn't even get a plea
bargain." Thats a paraphrase but essentially correct. I guess the
stranger the crime, the more evidence needed? Why do we need "physical
evdidence" to prove this is happening? We send people to prison all
the time on a couple eyewitness testimonies. Heck, if you want to put
somebody in prison, all you have to do is pay off a couple of people.
We have more than just a few "multi-abductions". These sometimes
involve 4 or 5 people's regression statements. I do believe hypnotic
regression is considered allowable evidence in a court of law. I am
sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Fact is, we don't need
physical evidence. Sure would be nice though.


--
        Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research
        812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at [e-mail]
               All information will be strictly confidential.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12491 alt.alien.visitors:10782
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Kaminski)
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Sender: [e-mail] (News User)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1992 22:12:43 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: garyk.mentorg.com
Organization: mentor
Keywords:
Followup-To:
Lines: 9

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> Dear Pyramid Lovers: I love to study the Great Pyramid of Egypt.
|> I was talking to a person by the name of Donald John Long lately
|> and he is going on a scientific trip over to study the Great
|> Pyramid of Egypt very soon.
|> John Winston
What new information can they expect to gather from this trip that is not
already known?
garyk
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From: [e-mail] (James Zuchelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Nov 92 00:06:26 GMT
References: <stone.720282282@cwis> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Distribution: usa
Organization: Claris Corp
Lines: 31
Nntp-Posting-Host: zuchelli

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>
> In article <stone.720282282@cwis> [e-mail] (Travis Stone) writes:
> >
> >
> >I was discussing a few aspects of the UFO phenomenon with
> >a friend of mine who specializes in electronics (he is, in
> >fact, our electronics technician here in the Physics/Chemistry
> >departments at UNO) when the topic of vehicle-stalling came
> >up.  "Could it be done?" I asked; his reply was that, to knock
> >out a running ignition system (spark plugs and whatnot) you
> >would need a magnetic field of such enormous strength that it
> >should actually crumple the metal body of the car to a noticeable
> >degree---"assuming," said he, "that it's being done with ordinary
> >magnetic fields like we can produce here, and not some---well,
> >we'll call it 'supernatural force'---that we don't know about."
(text deleted)

I don't believe that this is true.  I have heard many times of big rig truck
driver's with 2,000 watt linear amplifiers on their CB radios, being able to
transmit as a VW bug passed them and watch the VW suddenly slow down as the
transmitted signal interupted the VW's ignition system.  (This may of course,
be an urban legend, but many ahve said it is true.)

I think that you only need the right combination of power, and frequency
to do wierd things to electrical systems.

JZ

-------
This is my opinion only and not that of Claris Corp or my Employer.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed,  4 Nov 92 18:22:09 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Folks: I believe you will find that the artichokes became invisible
then visible and so on.  Someone asked that I explain what we see
on our OOBE trip to the Shensi Pyramid of China tonight at 1100 PM
(Wednesday Standard Pacific Time). I'll try to do that.
John Winston
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From: [e-mail] (Lee Walton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Advice Wanted: Good Unbiased Books A
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Nov 92 00:04:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 11
Cc: [e-mail]

> AUTHOR: Good, Timothy.
> TITLE:  Above top secret :  the worldwide UFO cover-up / with a foreword by
>         admiral of the Fleet, the Lord Hill-Norton GCB, Chief of Defence
>         Staff 1971-73.
>         London :  Sidgwick & Jackson,  c1987.
>         590 p., [16] leaves of plates :  ill., ports. ;  25 cm.
>         Includes bibliographical references and index.

Yeah, this book is *GOOD*

Lee
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed,  4 Nov 92 18:49:12 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 10

Subject: The Pyramid At Lone Pine.
  I once was told where there were two pyramids in Calif. One of them was at
Lone Pine and the other was on the North Fork of the American River at
Snakehead Point east of Sacramento, Calif.
  The one that is at Lone Pine is off the road at the town of Lone Pine,
Calif. which is between Mojave and Reno on Highway 395.
    I'll try to put some information down about it later when I get some more
time to post.
End Part 1.
John Winston
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology,alt.religion.scientology
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From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 04:01:07 GMT
Lines: 12

In <[e-mail]> John Underscore Hyphen Underscore Winston writes:
>Dear Big Foot Trackers: In case I haven't mentioned it before, Big Foot
>love bacon.

There goes my theory that they're Lubovichers.

P.S.  I love bacon.  I wear size 30 (cm.) boots.  Does this mean John
Winston is going to start following me around?  And should I buy a whole
metric wardrobe?  And what's with Perot never blinking?  Is he a
Scientologist?
                            -- K.

From: [e-mail] (Duane)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 22:08:56 GMT
Subject: 1 hour sightings this week !!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: HP Networked Computer Mfg. Operation
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 26

Greetings,


            Looks like sightings is going to have a one hour special this week
            ... From UFO's to Ghost to things that go bump in the night.

            Like my little toe that I broke last year when going to the bathroom
            in the middle of the night ... Damn chair!


            Hope its good and not a repeat.



            Duane


            California  Dreamin








Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Mark-Stefan Scheftner, Modula)
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Service)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: RVS, Universitaet Hannover, Germany
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:28:45 GMT
Lines: 2


Do you think a creature wich speaks with his Bigfoots can even handle an UFO???
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!walter!mdl!oscarl
From: [e-mail] (Mike Lynch)
Subject: Re: UFO Report
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: phelix.bellcore.com
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Mike Lynch)
Organization: Bellcore
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 14:18:24 GMT
Lines: 32

In article <[e-mail]>, Mark Francis Stramaglia <[e-mail]> writes:
|> December 9, 1990; Opuana, New Jersey. 9:45 AM. On his way home from work
|> at the Fort Winnig military base, observer Earl Olagtsendu witnessed two
|>
[Text Deleted]

|> patrol plane, a USAF B-47 jet bomber, and 6 California military
                   ^^^^^^^^^

When was this sighting?  Can't have been 1990 -- I doubt that there are
too many airworthy B-47s left, and almost certainly none in the hands
of the Air Force.  It was retired in the '50s and replaced by the B-52.
And it doesn't make any sense to scramble either one of those birds
for an intercept.  The only weapons they carried for air-to-air combat
were tail-mounted 50-caliber machine guns for defensive use.  (Later
models of the B-52 beginning with the H model carried a few other
surprises, but the H-models didn't come along until the mid-60s.)  And
having been in B-52s during practice of evasive manuevers, all I can
say is that you're tempted to get out and push the damned thing around
the sky.  The B-47 and B-52 weren't known for their aerobatic prowess.

But I digress.

I'm also not sure WHERE this took place.  Was it New Jersey, or
California?


Sign me Interested But a Tad Confused,


Mike Lynch
[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Subject: Re: rapture
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Rapture
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:02:43 GMT
Lines: 26



                            _RAPTURE_

I've just got back from a mini-vacation and have missed some of the action.

Isn't it possible that NMT just wants to provoke a lively discussion?

What we call tongue-in-cheek.

Let's face it, *nobody* with ideas and manners like this would be able to put
two words together. I think we've been duped.

(This was also partly my intention with the crop circle question.)

By the way, NMT would have had to get the joke about orgasm and the "second
coming", which would preclude the total innocence he/she feigns.

Did you all enjoy the election?

I'm sure Jesus has a sense of humour too, but I don't dare ask him if he
liked the joke!
                May you *all* have a good laugh today.    Paul.

Paul Milsom
[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Kevin J. Cherkauer)
Subject: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: The Bermuda Triangle Mystery: Solved
Sender: [e-mail] (The News)
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:22:37 GMT
Lines: 61

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>>Does anybody have information about "time dilation".  This thought has crossed
>>my mind before also.  It might explain a lot of other things as well.  Imagine
>>proving the unified field theory.  Solving the Bermuda Triangle mystery.
>>And other phenom.

>Long ago, when I had just gotten Appleworks for my 64K //e, I took several
>of Frank Edwards books and entered all the stuff about the Bermuda Triangle
>that I could find (hmm, maybe not Frank Edwards, but). Next I used the database
>to see what I could find. Mostly, I found nothing. But the most usefull
>seemed to be the counts of dissaperanced by month. It seems that almost
>all dissaperances were reported during December and (July, August?). There was
>a noise level of a few dissaperances during all other months.

>I concluded that this made sense if the dissaperances were the results of
>winter storms and summer storms. I never double checked, wonder if I still
>have the files?

I have a book called _The Bermuda Triangle Mystery: Solved_, but unfortunately
I do not remember the author offhand and the book is not here with me. It was
published in the mid to late 1970's. At any rate, anyone with an open mind who
currently thinks there is anything mysterious about disappearances in the
Bermuda Triangle will probably change their mind upon reading this book. It is
the only book about the Triangle I have read which examines *original* sources
(unlike sensationalists like Charles Berlitz). It covers many famous cases of
disappearance within the Bermuda Triangle and shows that the legendary stories
do not match at all with the facts.

One discrepancy that shows up over and over is the claims in the legend of how
ships and planes disappeared in clear weather. Almost always it turned out that
when the original sources are consulted (newspapers, weather records, and
maritime trade sheets and records of the time of the incident), in actuality
there was severe storm weather, hurricanes, etc.

As for the flight of five Navy Avenger torpedo bombers (Flight 19, I think), it
is clear from the transcripts of the radio conversations that the planes
experienced a few moments of disorientation (the cause is unclear, but it is
possible it was some local weather or some other natural cause) and then the
leader panicked, convinced that they were west of Florida instead of east of it
somehow, and thus turned them toward the open ocean where they eventually ran
out of gas. (I remember hearing in recent years that the five planes have now
even been found on the ocean bottom. Anyone know any more about this?)

The most tragic irony of all is that if the leader had thought in more than the
four cardinal compass directions, they could have found land even without
knowing whether they were over the Atlantic or the Gulf of Mexico. To wit,
their actual position was east of Florida. The leader had them fly due east and
then due north to try to hit either Florida or the mainland north of the Gulf.
Result -- flying into the Atlantic. However, if they had flown northwest, they
would have hit land whether they were in the Atlantic or the Gulf. See what
panic can do to your reasoning abilities?

Another irony is that two of the last transmissions received were those of one
of the other pilots complaining, "If we just flew west, we would get home!" and
"Damn it, if we just flew west, we would get home!" (from memory).

--
Kevin Cherkauer
[e-mail]

Disclaimer: The above opinions are solely the responsibility of my owners.
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: [e-mail] (Lee Walton)
Subject: Re: Flagstaff Craft
Cc: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:36:00 +0000
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 42

> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> (Robert Allen Coody) writes...

>> It made a slow
>> right turn, almost if in a glide and then I saw that the craft was
>> slightly illuminated by three white lights, disclosing a triangular body.
>> After it slowly glided away, about a mile off from my position, a jet
>> engine came on for about three minutes and it speeded up slightly and then
>> the engine shut down again.  Sound Familiar, anyone familiar with
>> experimental craft?
>> --
>> Juan de los Caballeros

> Thanks for posting that. You have seen something remarkably similar to the
> now famous UFO seen widely over Belgium. I've always taken the Belgian UFO
> for a super-secret aircraft, and your sighting does much to confirm that,
> especially the part about the jet engine.
> -Tom R.   [e-mail]

Sounds a bit like the B2 Stealth Bomber (flying out from a USAF base in
Germany?) which looks a bit like a triangle with two triangles notched out
the base:

                                 /\
                                /  \
                               /    \
                              /      \
                             / /    \ \
                            /_/-\__/-\_\

This picture is a bit squashed, but I think that its similar to what a B2
looks like. Was it just a single jet engine? Sounds like the jet was on
normal thrust and then turned on the after-burner which on most planes makes
a hell of a racket compared to what they normally sound like.

Of course, a civilian UFO is not necessarily a military UFO. But on the other
hand saying that something is an experimental aircraft is always a good way
of debunking sightings.

BTW, when was this mass sighting over Belgium?

L. Walton
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From: [e-mail] (David R. Stepien)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Philadelphia Experiment
Date: 5 Nov 1992 19:50:46 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (David R. Stepien)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


For a long time I've heard all kinds of wild stories about the
Philadelphia Experiment.  Does anyone know the truth?

What exactly was the experiment?
What were the results?
What are the possible interpretations of these results?

Answers anyone?

David
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From: [e-mail] (Doug McLaren)
Newsgroups: alt.irc.corruption,talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What's the purpose of this newsgroup?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Nov 92 09:23:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.irc.corruption
Organization: Doug's House of Disco
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Scott D. Yelich) writes:
>
>What's the purpose?  You can talk here.  You can express your opinion.

But does anybody acutally read it?  If I wanted to express my opinion to
myself, why get the Internet involved? :)  ( and Scott - why cross post
to misc.test?  If people thing *bots* are insincere, then these "Your post
has been received by kalamazoo.way.the.hell.far.away.bfe" messages that
fill your mailbox are downright cold. :)  (if you really like autogreets,
post a message to misc.test and alt.test called 'Test my mailbox for me!" :)

>Here, if someone doesn't want to read your message[s], they can ignore
>you.  In IRC, you are subject to /kick, /kill and /mode +b and /squit
>if your opinion rubs someone the wrong way.  You could try mailing
>lists, but hey, but they're controlled and possibly censored.

Here, you're subject to KILL files (which admittedly don't have much impact
on you ...)  And what's to stop the really upset person from forging a
cancel for your posts?  (I've seen automatic cancels sent out for any
post from a certain user@host ...)

And you don't think usenet is ever censored?  NOT! (though admittedly,
it's much easier to censor a mailing list ...)

>I'd suggest sticking with alt.irc.corruption.  It has very low bandwidth
>and no one controls it-- two things that are not true for IRC.

Oh ... Usenet is certainly, most definately controlled.  alt.irc.corruption
itself may not be, but then again, neither would your own +pstim channel.
Usenet is just controlled by people who don't let politics get into the
fray, or if they do, they generally don't let it adversly affect the quality
of the service provided.  Unlike irc ...



--
----------------------- \  Confucius might have once said:
Doug McLaren,            \  AMAZING BUT TRUE ... There is so much sand in
DemoN on IRC              \  Northern Africa that if it were spread out it
[e-mail]  \  would completely cover the Sahara Desert.
-------------------------- /
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From: [e-mail] (A figment of your imagination)
Subject: a.a.v. Frequently Asked Questions [1 of 3]
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              alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions
         This FAQ was last updated: 10/30/92 (minor Corrections)
       It currently takes up 130k (around 67 printed pages) in all
                       Line width is about 75 char.
                             (Part 1 of 3)


Hello and welcome to the alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions
posting. You may notice that this FAQ does not follow the standard question
asked, question answered format. The reason for this is that this FAQ is
designed to answer questions of people who are new to this Usenet discussion
group, and designed to be a useful reference source to those interested in
UFOlogy. I tried to keep a neutral stance when I researched the many of the
subjects covered in this FAQ; however you may also notice that some of the
material seem to be one-sided. When doing some of the research I may have
only used one book or source, thus (as you may have noticed) some authors
present information from only one point of view and this has a tendency to
be carried over to this FAQ, do to the lack of information on the subject
from another point of view.  (deep huh? well I hope to include more
viewpoints as this FAQ grows.) Also please when reading information from
this FAQ (as one poster put it) take everything you read here with a very
large grain of salt. (rock salt) Even I don't believe all the information
that I have included in this FAQ. As I said its mainly a reference to
help you out. If you find yourself interested in a UFO related subject,
**DO RESEARCH** read books on the subject, dig into both sides, write
letters to the authors and researchers.

I would once again like to thank everyone who contributed to the FAQ,
I would like to especially thank Steve Gamble and Jeff Papineau for the work
they put into the UFO Organizations section.


Contents
========

Main Sections
-------------
0.1: About alt.alien.visitors
0.2: Posting to alt.alien.visitors
0.3: People who post to alt.alien.visitors
0.4: Common Sense Guidelines
0.5: Example Posting

Terminology and Definitions Used in UFOlogy
-------------------------------------------
2.00: a.a.v.
2:01: Astronomical Units (A.U.)
2:02: Close Encounters (CE) & Visual Sightings
2:03: Marfa Lights
2:04: Men In Black (MIB)
2:05: Tectonic Strain Theory (TST)
2:06: UFOnauts
2:07: Unusual Ground Markings (UGM)
2:08: USAF
2:09: Zine

Alien Races
-----------------
3.00: Arcturus
3.01: Aryans (Blondes)
3.02: Blues (Star Warriors)
3.03: Confederation of Humans
3.04: Greys
3.05: Orion Empire (Orion forces)
3.06: Pleiadians
3.07: Sirius
3.08: Reptoids
3.09: Vega

Abductions and Current Theories
------------------------------
4.00: About Abductions

UFOlogists
----------
5:00: Hopkins, Bud
5:01: Jacobs, Dr David
5:02: Klass, Philip J.
5:03: Marciniak, Barbara J.
5:04: Randles, Jenny

UFO Projects & Theories & Controversies
----------------------------------------
6.00: Aurora Project or "deep black" projects
6.02: NASA Footage September 10th
6.03: Planetoid (Wormwood)
6.04: Project Blue Book
6.05: Roswell Crash Incident

UFO Movies, Documentaries and TV Programs
----------------------------------------
= 7.00: TV Programs
7.01: E. T. Monitor (the Keystone Inspirational Network)
7.02: Hard Copy (??)
7.03: Intruders
7.04: National Geographic (PBS)
7.05: sightings (FOX)
7.06: UFO Incident, The
7.07: Unsolved Mysteries (NBC)

= 7.08: UFO VIDEOS
7.09: Close Up
7.10: Communion
7.11: UFO Coverup Live
7.12: UFO Documentary
7.13: UFO, The Films Prove It

UFO Magazines and Publications (UFOzines)
-----------------------------------------
8.00: Circular, The
8.01: Cerealogist, The
8.02: Connecting Link Magazine
8.03: CONTINUUM
8.04: Crop Watcher, The
8.05: Earth,
8.06: Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, The
8.07: Faithist Journal, The
8.08: Focus
8.09: Fortean Times,
8.10: Inner Light
8.11: International UFO Library Magazine
8.12: Magonia,
8.13: Orvotron Newsletter
8.14: Ovni Presence
8.15: Revelations of Awareness
8.16: Swamp Gas Journal
8.17: UFO Universe

UFO Book Publishers
-------------------
9.00: Advent Publishing Company
9.02: Arnerica West Publishers
9.03: Arcturus Book Service
9.04: Condor Books, Inc.
9.05: Document Research Services
9.06: Earth Star Publications
9.07: Eden Press
9.08: JACO Book Publishers
9.09: The Library of the New Essenes of Inyo
9.10: Luna Ventures
9.11: The Pleiades Project
9.12: UFO Audio-Video Clearing House
9.13: UFO Books
9.14: UFO Photo Archives
9:15: Worldwide UFO Newsclipping Bureau and Public Information Center 955
West

Miscellaneous Information
-----------------------
10.00: A UFO Book List
10.01: alt.alien.visitors archives (back issues)
10.02: Big Foot (Sasquatch)
10.03: Free UFO Class
10.04: Freedom of Information
10.05: Hidden Ancient Ruins
10.06: Inter Library Loans (ILL)
10.07: NASA Shuttle Footage
10.08: UFO Related anonymous FTP Sites

UFO Organizations                                  * Assumed Acronym
------------------
11.00: Aerial Phenomenon Research: The Indiana Group  . . . . .*(APR)
11.02: Aetherius Society, The
11.03: Ancient Astronaut Society    . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(AAS)
11.04: Ancient Truth Research Foundation    . . . . . . . . . .*(ATRF)
11.05: Awareness Reserch Foundation, Inc , The    . . . . . . .*(ARF)
11.06: Borderland Sciences Research Foundation  . . . . . . . . (BSRF)
11.07: British UFO Research Association . . . . . . . . . . . . (BUFORA)
11.08: California UFO     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(CUFO)
11.09: Citizens Against UFO Secrecy   . . . . . . . . . . . . . (CAUS)
11.10: Committee for the Scientific Investigation of
       Claims of the Paranormal Contactee   . . . . . . . . . . (CSICOP)
11.11: Computer UFO Network   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (CUFON)
11.12: Contactee
11.13: Cosmic Awareness Communications  . . . . . . . . . . . .*(CAC)
11.14: CSETI                . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (CSETI)
11.15: Delval UFO, Inc.
11.16: Fair Witness Project, Inc., The  . . . . . . . . . . . .*(FRP)
11.17: Federation, The
11.18: Flying Saucer Information Center . . . . . . . . . . . .*(FSIS)
11.19: Fortean Research Center, The
11.20: Fund for UFO Research, Inc.,The  . . . . . . . . . . . .*(FUFOR)
11.21: Gulf Breeze Skywatch   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(GBS)
11.22: Inner-Peace Prosperity Network . . . . . . . . . . . . . (IPPN)
11.23: Intercontinental UF Galactic Spacecraft
       - Research and Analytic Network  . . . . . . . . . . . . (ICUFON)
11.24: International Committeee for UFO Research . . . . . . . . (ICUFOR)
11.25: International Fortean Organization   . . . . . . . . . . (INFO)
11.26: Intruders Foundation
11.27: Island Skywatch
11.28: J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies  . . . . . . . . . (CUFOS)
11.29: Massachusetts Center for the study of
       Aerial Phenomena, The  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(MCSAP)
11.30: Multi-national Investigations Cooperative on
       Aerial Phenomena   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (MICAP)
11.31: MutuaL UFO Network   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (MUFON)
11.32: Mutual UFO Network of North Carolina, Inc.   . . . . . . (MUFON-NC)
11.33: National Investigations Committeee on UFOs  . . . . . . . (NICUFO)
11.34: National Sighting Research Center, The   . . . . . . . . (NSRC)
11.35: Nevada Aerial Research Group   . . . . . . . . . . . . . (NARG)
11.36: North American Circle  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . *(NAC)
11.37: North American Institute of Crop Circle Research   . . . (NAICCR)
11.38: Northamptonshire UFO Research Centre   . . . . . . . . . (NUFORC)
11.39: Northern UFO Network   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (NUFON)
11.40: Omega Communications
11.41: ParaNet (Paranormal Network) Information Service . . . . (PARANET)
11.42: Pennsylvania Association for the
       Study of the Unexplained . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (PASU)
11.43: Pnet
11.44: Portland UFO Group, The  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (PUFOG)
11.45: Roundtown UFO Society
11.46: Royal Priest Research  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(RPR)
11.47: Search for EXtraterrestrial Intelligence, The. . . . . . (SETI)
11.48: Sirian Rainbow Lodge   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(SRL)
11.49: SKYNET
11.50: Socie'Te' Belge d'Etude des Phenomenes Spatiaux  . . . . (SOBEPS)
11.51: Society for Scientific Exploration   . . . . . . . . . . (SSE)
11.52: Society for the Investigation of the Unexplained, The  . (SITU)
11.53: System Ready
11.54: Transcendental Communications A Division of LAMAT Research
11.55: UFO Contact Center International   . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOCCI)
11.56: UFO Fllter Center  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOFC)
11.57: UFO Information Retrieval Center . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOIRC)
11.58: UFO Investigators League . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOIL)
11.59: UFO, Paranormal and Conspiracy BBS, THE  . . . . . . . .*(UFOPCBBS)
11.60: UFO Reporting and Information Service. . . . . . . . . . (UFORIS)
11.61: UFO Study Group of Greater St. Louis
11.62: Ufology Research of Manitoba . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOROM)
11.63: United Aerial Phenomena Agency . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UAPA)
11.64: Universal Articulate Interdimensional
       Understanding of Science (UNARIUS Academy of Sciences) . (UNARIUS)
11.65: Victorian U.F.O. Research Society Inc. . . . . . . . . . (VUFORS)

Disclaimer
----------

FAQ Requests
------------

FAQ Suggestions
---------------

=== 0.1: About alt.alien.visitors
---------------------------------
alt.alien.visitor is a Usenet discussion group available through internet.
Currently a.a.v. is the only UFO related discussion group available on
Usenet. It caters to a wide rage of UFO related discussion from New Age
UFOlogy to Scientific UFOlogy. It currently receives around 36 posting
daily. All comments by me are indicated by the square brackets[]

=== 0.2: Posting to alt.alien.visitors
--------------------------------------
The following idea was suggested by [e-mail] and is
taken from [e-mail] (Melissa Wauford)'s "*** REC.ARTS.TV
POSTING GUIDELINES ***". I have adapted it to fit alt.alien.visitors, and
I feel that this is an excellent idea. I would recommend that you use this
system when posting to alt.alien.visitors.

alt.alien.visitors can be a controversial newsgroup with a wide variety
of discussed topics. A few topics may generate more traffic than others
and may contain subject matter related to UFOlogy that others wish to
filter out or concentrate upon.  In order to allow those who use rn or
some other method of pre-selecting articles to filter out (or save away)
postings about these heavy traffic subjects, an abbreviation scheme has
been created.  Please help out by starting your subject line with one of
the following abbreviations when posting about these topics. For example:

Subject: HOT - Dancing Aliens

or

Subject: OP: Grey finger snacks,(the trick is in how you fold them)

New abbreviations will be added as needed. Send suggestions directly to
me, and I'll add them to the list. Objections to any abbreviations should
probably be posted so that a consensus may be reached. Old abbreviations
will be deleted when no longer necessary.


Suggested Abbreviations by [e-mail]:
[revised by [e-mail]]

 ABD = Abduction information
  CE = Pertaining to UFO sightings and phenomena, Close Encounters,
       alien contact
  HA = Jokes & silliness
 HOT = Someone flaming someone else
 INV = Postings about alien invasions and conspiracies
MISC = Other categories like Atlantis/Mu/Spacemen, etc...
  NA = New Age stuff
NEWS = UFO related news, upcoming conventions.
  OP = Opinions
 REP = Repostings of older post like Lear, Cooper, etc..
 SCI = Scientific (preferably not pseudo) findings on UFO related issues


=== 0.3: People who post to alt.alien.visitors
----------------------------------------------
Readers and writers of a.a.v. are made up of:

A) People that have had contact.(Rarely post... obvious reasons)
B) Government paid disinformation people. (Poor to fair fiction)
C) Questioning/Inquiring minds (post questions, do research, answer
questions)
D) Wanderers (Just passing through, make snide remarks if any)
E) A few who think aliens are out there but haven't/won't come here.
F) A few who think aliens are with us know but have had no contact.
G) Aliens (Grey, life sucking, invader of utopia)
H) Guys like me that just can't unsubscribe from this group. (It's just to
   much fun. Life looks darker and things aren't very clear. (guess this
   belongs in alt.consp....) But when all else falls through pull up a.a.v.
   and smile. Someone is always a little worse off than you are and here is
   one sure fired place to find one.
I) People who are not contactees, or new-agers, or sceptics, but are simply
   interested in high-strangeness phenomenon of all sorts (and generally try
   not to post snide comments or be simple minded!)

[If anyone wishes to add their humor to this list please mail me,
 but keep it clean: [e-mail]]

Main Source: [e-mail] (Rick O'leary)
Other Contributors:
[e-mail] (Kellie Matthews)

== 0.4: Common Sense Guidelines
-------------------------------
When posting to any Usenet group please follow these general guidelines.

(1)  Do not post on subjects that clearly unrelated to the newsgroup.
     Take them to the appropriate news group for discussion.

     Example: Discussion of abortion, gun control, politics and other
     strictly non related UFO should not be posted on this news group.

(2)  Do not completely repost others peoples postings and then write your
     opinion about it. Selectively edit the the post to get the information
you
     need from it to make your point. The standard symbol used to show
     information from another post is the ">".

     Example of what not to do: Repost a long section of material quoted
     from a previous article, followed by "I agree" or words to that
     effect.

== 0.5: Example Posting
-----------------------
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: [e-mail] (John Doe)
Subject: OP: Roswell Incident
Date: Fri, 31 Apr 1992 16:54:39 GMT

In article <1597O38cc.040316.26314>[e-mail] (Ima Lier)
writes:

>.. it was in 1936 when the UFO crashed at Roswell ...
>Plus there were no witnesses!! Not a single person could be found
>to bring forth testimony.

According to my sources it happened in 1947 and lots of people saw it.
How can you say... [Etc.]
 -JD

===Terminology and Definitions Used in UFOlogy
----------------------------------------------

2.00: Astronomical Units (A.U.)
------------------------------
An A.U. is a measurement of space. One A.U. is the distance from the earth
to the sun.

2.01: a.a.v.
------------
alt.alien.visitors One of the many Usenet discussion groups.

2:02: Close Encounters (CE) & Visual Sightings
----------------------------------------------
NL (nocturnal light)
   A simple visual sighting of a unidentified flying light seen at night.

ND (nocturnal disc)
   A simple visual sighting of a unidentified flying extended or structured
   light source seen at night.

DD (daylight disc)
   A simple visual sighting of a UFO seen during the day.

Close Encounters of the first kind (CE1, CEI)
   As first defined by Hynek, a CE1 is an observation of a UFO within 150
   yards.

Close Encounters of the second kind (CE2, CEII)
    The finding of physical evidence that a alien craft or race exists.
    Example: A burn where the craft has landed or the finding of material
    of unknown makeup.

Close Encounters of the third kind (CE3, CEIII)
    A visual sighting of an alien being or race.

Close Encounters of the forth kind (CE4, CEIV)
    An abduction of an individual by an alien being or race.


Close Encounters of the fifth kind (CE5, CEV)
    A direct contact or communication with alien being or race.
    Example: Billie Meier with the Pleiadians, U.S.Govt. with the
    Greys, or channeling.

Main Source:
[e-mail] (Janet Smith)
[e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)

2:03: Marfa Lights
------------------
Marfa lights  are balls of lights that appear, change different colors
and dance around in the air.  These lights where named after the town
that they have been appearing in, Marfa Texas. They have also been sited
in other areas. Some theories as to what they are include Ball lighting,
Car headlights, and Alien space ships. The last current sighting I'm
aware of was Marfa Texas on September 1 1992.

Main Source: Sightings, FOX Network airdate September 25, 1992

2:03: Men In Black (MIB)
------------------------
These are a group of individuals who are said to wear black suits and
drive and fly around in unmarked black cars and helicopters.  They go
about  threatening people who have claimed to have seen UFOs into not
talking about what they witnessed.

The very first occurrence of MIB was traced to a man named Albert K.
Bender.  He was the editor of a flying saucer publication called the
"Space Review" In the October 1953 issue he placed an announcement
stating that he had come across information that would solve the flying
saucer mystery but they could not print it because they were ordered not
to.  They then ended the announcement warning others in saucer work to be
"very cautious"  they then stopped their publications. Later in an
interview Bender stated that "three men wearing dark suits" had ordered
him to stop publishing flying saucer material, and  that he had complied
with the order because he had been "scared to death" of them. He later
published a book called "Flying Saucers and the Three Men in Black"

Mains Source: "A Review of MIBS (Men In Black) : A History" ParaNet File
Number: 00171 Published 1991 by ParaNet Information Service

Also see: Flying Saucers and the Three Men in Black by Albert K. Bender

2:05: Tectonic Strain Theory (TST)
----------------------------------
A theory of electromagnetic effects upon the human brain and/or the
physical environment, such that all Forteana including UFOs, ghosts, ESP,
sasquatch, and religious fervour can be explained as being caused by
seismic activity generating electromagnetic radiation which in turn makes
people think they are witnesses to an anomalous event. Alternatively, the
EMM radiation can luminesce so that it appears as a UFO.  Chief
proponent: Michael Persinger. A variant is the "Earth Lights" hypothesis
described by Paul Devereux.

Main Source: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)

UFO
------
Unidentified Flying Object. Official term used by the Air Force.

2:06: UFOnauts
--------------
A term used by the UFO community in reference to the alien abductors or
extraterrestrials.

2:07: Unusual Ground Markings (UGM)
-----------------------------------
A broad term which includes crop circles, "tripod marks", saucer nests,
burn marks, etc.

Main Source: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)

2:08: USAF
----------
United States Air Force

2:09: Zine
----------
magazine or newsletter pertaining to a specific subject.
circlezine - Crop Circle publication
   ufozine - UFO publication


=== Alien Races
---------------------
These are often talked about in books, Publcations and on this discussion
group.


3.00: Arcturus
--------------
Members of Confederations of Humans [will do more research later]

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371

3.01: Aryans (Blondes)
----------------------
Blond Nordic Humanoids who work with the greys. Said to be captured by
the Reptoids and also have implants. They are said to have a tendency to
switch their loyalties between the Reptoids and the Confederations of
Humans.

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371

3.02: Bllues (Star Warriors)
----------------------------
The Blues are said to have translucent skin, large almond shaped eyes and
small of stature. The main issue of their teaching was PURSUE YOUR
PASSION, follow your own way, do your own thing, don't be pressured into
being anything but what and who you are.

The information about the Blues comes from Robert Morningsky a
Hopi/Apache dancer. According to Morningsky the first alien contact
started about 1947 - 1948 with the Greys contacting the U.S. Government
to form a treaty with them. Another body of Aliens arrived, called the
Blues. The Blues advised the government not to deal with the greys saying
it would only lead to disaster. They told the U.S. to follow your own
path. They said they would would teach with peace and harmony if men
would disarm and listen. The military said no deal. So they left, but a
few decided to remain and stayed in Northern Mexico and Arizona and made
a treaty with the Hopi Indians. These Aliens are known by the Hopi as
Star Warriors. The greys started monitoring the Blues. So the Blues had
to flee the reservation and go into hiding, a few of the Elders went with
them.

The Hopi legend is that there were two races, the children of the feather
who came from the skies, and the children of the reptile who came from
under the earth. The children of the reptile chased the Hopi Indians out
of the earth, these evil under-grounders were also called two hearts.

Main Source: Post from: [e-mail] (Don Allen) "FILE: Star
  Warriors",Forwarded from "contact" by Sande Van der Straten, to Cathy
  Emerson, Dated 23 Aug 1992, 19:29

Also See: American Indian Magic by Brad Steiger


3.03: Confederation of Humans
------------------------------
An organization of alien groups born out of positive energy, that are
helping the human race along and desire to protect them.  Includes:
Vega, Arcturus, Sirius, Pleiades and other humanoids.

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371

3.04: Greys
-----------
This is the most commonly identified alien race in UFOlogy. Their are
many different views, stories and theories regarding them ranging from
the different New Age views to the different Scientific, and conspiracy
views.

Greys as presented by the Scientific Community:
 The Greys are the most commonly described race by abduction victims. In
this view they are considered a race with an unknown motives, and
agendas. They seem to be abducting, studying, testing and using various
individuals for their one unclear reasons. [See: Abductions and Current
Theories]

Greys as presented by the New Age Movement:
  In the new age movement the Greys are often associated as an evil race,
or a race with bad energy. They are often associated with many other
races, such as the Reptoids and their motives are known.

Greys as presented by Different Conspiracy Theories
  The different conspiracy theories are often a mix of the scientific and
new age views. The standard conspiracy base states that the Greys crashed
one or more of their space ships and they were found by the U.S.
Government. The Government them makes a secret treaty with the Greys
allowing them to abduct humans in exchange for their technology. The
conspiracy theories often end with the Greys not keeping their part of
the deal. [I will try and include some of the different conspiracy
theories when I have more time to research them in detail]

Their are descriptions of several types of Greys: they are all humanoid in
appearance, a head, main body, two arms, hands, legs, and feet.

1: The most commonly seen grey is around two to four feet tall, very
slender and delicate looking, small beings and light weight, extremely
penetrating black slanted eyes with no pupils, almost vestigial mouth
and nose, a very large head with a pointed chin. The skin color varies
from dark grey to light grey, tan to tanish grey, white to pale white.
They have no hair on their bodies.

2: Another commonly seen Grey is described similarly as above, except
their usually six inches taller, and seem to give the orders. A variation
of this same described individual is: same as above except eyes like big
black buttons and are rounded.

3: Another type of Grey are the small robot like beings, stocky and
little, with smooth rounded hat on top, with dark deep set holes for eyes
and a round O shaped mouth, square breastplate with concentric circles on
it, smell like burnt match heads, mushroom grey skin. These Greys are
often said to act like security guards.

Other variations are described as Reptilian like with claws an preying
mantis like. There have also been many report of cross breeds that are
not exactly human and not exactly Greys.

Main Sources:
Secret Life, by David M. Jacobs
Communion, by Whitley Strieber
A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371

Also See:
Missing Time, by Budd Hopkins
Intruders, by Budd Hopkins


3.05: Orion Empire (Orion forces)
---------------------------------
Those alien groups born out of negative energy such as the Reptoids and
the grays. [If this is wrong someone please correct me, I'll do more
research on this later]

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371


3.06: Pleiadians
----------------
The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star system
Pleiades. They are also from various times in our future, starting from
500 years from now to millions of years from now. The Pleiadian culture
is ancient and was "seeded" from another universe of love long before
Earth was created. They have formed a tremendous society which operates
with love, with ideas and ideals that we are yet unfamiliar with.

The Pleiadians started a project to contact and inspire earth humans to
take back their power and create a better reality for themselves. They
are here as ambassadors from another universe to help Earth through her
transition from the third dimension to the fourth dimension and to assist
each of us in our personal endeavors of awakening, remembering and
knowing. As this project has become more successful, more ETs have
joined the group, some from other systems. The group later changed its
name from Pleiadians to the Pleiadians Plus.

The Pleiadians say that their reasons for contacting us is that there is
a chance of tyranny in the future and they are coming back to inspire us
as much as possible so we will take charge of creating our own reality
and change the future.
   They teach a very empowering form of personal and social metaphysics,
with love and clarity. The Pleiadians speak as a collective and there are
no individuals identified. They do not appear in physical form although
they say they can. They say it is safer to come through the channel,  and
it does not attract as much attention.


Billie Meier's Contact from the Pleiades
Billie Meier was contacted over 130 times between 1976 and 1982 by a
female named Samjese who said she was from the star system Pleiades. She
was the first to telepathically contact Meier and tell him where to go
for the first physical contact. Meier had indepth conversations with
Samjese. The contact notes are published in following four books and are
out of print:

UFO ... Contact from the Pleiades Vol I & II Photo Journals (Vol I is in
        its second printing.)
UFO ... Contact from the Pleiades Prilimary Investigation Report
UFO ... Contact from the Pleiades Supplementary Investigation Report
Message From the Pleiades Vol 1 & 2 Light Years

There are 4 videos available on the Pleiades case.
Contact        $59.
The Beamship Trilogy   $99.
The videos are available from:
Genesis III Publishing, P.O. Drawer JJ, Munds Park, AZ 86017
[Also see: The Pleiades Project]

There is also a book available called Bringers of the Dawn - Teachings
from the Pleiadians by Barbara Marciniak.  They also have 2 to 3 hundred
tapes available.

Main source:
Information given by [e-mail]
Connecting Link Magazine Pleiadian article, Channeled by Barbara Marciniak

3.07: Sirius
-------------
Members of Confederations of Humans [will do more research later]

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371

3.08: Reptoids
---------------
A reptilian race from Draco bent on conquest,  They are said to be
controling the greys by means of an implant, the same one that the gray
are implanting into humans.  They are also said to be the master minds
behind the abduction plans. Their master plan involves using the newly
created 'Half-breeds' with implants to defeat the Confederations of
Humans. The Reptoids also use humans as food.  [Does this remind you of
the movie V?]

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371


3.09: Vega
----------
Members of Confederations of Humans [will do more research later]

Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness"
  Issue # 371


=== Abductions and Current Theories
-----------------------------------
4.00: About Abductions
----------------------
There are many people who believe they have been abducted by UFOnauts.
These abduction victims often experience memory loss and "missing time".
some of them have been able to recall their abductions from memory and
others have recalled their abductions by the aid of hypnosis. Often these
encounters involve being taken aboard an alien craft and examined by the
UFOnauts and put through a variety of physical and mental procedures.
Then the individuals are returned. Many of the abduction victims has
shown signs of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

Some of the major researchers who have studied the abduction field
include Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs, John Mach, Philip Klass, and Jenny
Randles.

There are several groups with distinct opinions. The dyed-in-the-wool
Skeptics, who who don't believe it. Others who are passing no verdict, but
are still examining  the evidence. Those who believe due to the
similarities of the abduction testimonies. Those who claim to have
information through means such as channeling. Those who claim to have had
first-person experiences, with automatic conscious recall. Those who
claim to have had first-person experiences, with recall under hypnotic
regression.

The opinions of some skeptics such as Klass believe that the hypnotists
themselves are leading the abduction victims unknowingly into believing
that they have had an abduction experience. The skeptics believe that the
the media has been saturated so much with the abduction material that when
people having nightmares or people who believe that they have experienced
the "missing time" are put under hypnosis, they draw upon what they have
seen in the media to fulfill the expectations of the hypnotist and
causes themselves to be put trough the trauma for that reason. They say
the nightmares are often caused by the sleeping disorder narcolepsy, and
the "missing time" is not an uncommon experience and is caused when the
mind is preoccupied by other matters. They often give the advice to go to
clinical doctors, and not to contact an abductionist.

Other researchers such as Jacobs and Hopkins believe that there is
something physical causing the abduction experiences. Hobkins has stated
that he believes that the abduction are real and that the recounts of the
abductions are to similar to each other to be anything but the truth.
Jacobs takes a slightly different approach, he has been categorizing all
the accounts and trying to find patterns in the testimonies. Through this
method he come up with new more indepth theories regarding the
abductions. [I'll give these late when I have time]

The Channelers believe that the abductions are part of a battle between
good energy forces and evil energy forces. [See Reptoids, Greys and
Pleiadians]

There people on the net who believe they have had personal experiences
with Alien contacts or abductions. Some have posted accounts of their
experiences. Many others decline to post due to attacks by skeptics.

There has been possible material evidence of UFOs or Alien contacts. There
are abundant material traces, even excepting those confiscated by the
military. Material traces include burned grass and earth where UFOs have
landed, UFOs shown on radar tapes, UFOs on film and in photos. Bodily
traces on abductees include scoop-marks in the flesh, incisions, burns,
apparent radiation exposure, bruises, inflammation, etc. Whether any of
these is considered *evidential*, however, is a subjective value call.

For anyone who is interested in abduction help call:

  Bill Knell
  Director of Island Skywatch
  [phone] (New York)

He can get you in touch with the right people in your area and has a lot
of videos, tapes and books on UFOs and abductions. He is also a very
experienced researcher/investigator.

Main Sources:
UFO-Abductions: A Dangerous Game, by Philip Klass
Secret Life, by David M. Jacobs
Communion, by Whitley Strieber
[e-mail] (Denise Solis)
A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371

Also See:
Missing Time, by Budd Hopkins
Intruders, by Budd Hopkins
Alien Abductions: Mystery Solved by Jenny Randiles


=== UFOlogists
--------------
5:00: Hopkins, Bud
------------------
Bud Hopkins graduated from Oberlin college. He is also a painter and
sculptor. He has been investigating UFO report for the lat 12 years.

Bud Hopkins c/o Random House
201 E. 50th Street
New York, NY 10022

5:01: Jacobs, Dr David
----------------------
David Jacobs is an Associate Professor of History at temple University.
He has worked with over 300 UFO abduction witnesses. He works closely
with a number of other abduction researchers including Budd Hopkins.
Dr. Jacobs moderates an abduction conference on ParaNet, and is accessible
via their dial-up BBS node (303-431-8797) or on Internet through a list
server. [See ParaNet]

Dr. David Jacobs
Department of History
Temple University
Philadelphia, Pa 19122

5:02: Klass, Philip J.
----------------------
For thirty-five years a senior editor with Aviation Week and Space
Technology magazine, is recognized as the world's leading skeptical
authority in Unidentified Flying Objects and has written three books on
the subject. Klass, a graduate electrical engineer, is a founding Fellow
of the Committeee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the
Paranormal. He was honored in 1973 for his accuracy as a techjournalist
by being named a Fellow at the Institute of Electrical and Electronics
Engineers.

Main Source: The about the author paragraph inUFO-Abductions: A Dangerous
  Game, by Philip Klass, C1988

5:03: Marciniak, Barbara J.
---------------------------
Barbara J. Marciniak is an internationally known trance channel from
North Carolina. She began channeling in 1988. The strength and purity of
the message she is bringing very quickly captured the hearts of many
seekers looking to be all that they can be. Barbara has channeled at
various Expos and for groups across the United States, in Peru and in
Germany.

You may contact Barbara at:
Bold Connections                Connecting Link Magazine
P. O. Box 6521,                 9392 Whitneyville Rd.
Raleigh, NC 27628.              Alto, MI. 49302-9694

5:04: Randles, Jenny
--------------------
Jenny Randles
37 Hasthbank Road
Stockport, Cheshire SK3 0UP

                            Bitnet: Fsdlk@alaska
( FAQ Part 1 of 3)        Internet: [e-mail]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~  ...........  .......          .           .       .            ~
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~  ...          .......           .            .                  ~
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~  .... xisting . hantom              .             .             ~
~                             .                            .      ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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              alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions
         This FAQ was last updated: 10/30/92 (minor Corrections)
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                             (Part 2 of 3)


=== UFO Projects & Theories & Controversies
--------------------------------------------


6.00: Aurora Project or "deep black" projects
----------------------------------------------
The "Black Projects" are governmental projects that are considered
technological secrets. These can range from laser and particle beams to
top secret aircraft. The "Aurora Project" is the name given to one of
these types of projects by the industry experts involving two new types
of reported aircraft. These aircraft where observed in the south west US
and are said to have been developed at highly classified government
facilities in the Nevada desert. There are two types of advanced aircraft
reported.

One is nick named the "Pulser" aircraft. There have been many sights of
this aircraft by several different  witnesses. When sighted it has
repetitively been described as "A high-speed aircraft characterized by a
very loud, deep, rumbling engine noise (1-2 Hz pulse rate) reminiscent of
heavy-lift rockets."  The smoke trail of the aircraft is described as
being segmented and in a linked sausage shape. (Or another good example
would be to look at one side of your coat zipper, un-zipped, with the
teeth facing you) It is also described as a high-altitude aircraft that
crossed the sky at extremely high speeds. Both ground based and airborne
observers have reported it to be seen flying at altitudes above 50,000
ft. observers have reported see the aircraft as a single bright light
that seldom changed direction, however speed changes where observed. One
observer estimated that it covered 350 miles in 6 minutes. (3500
miles/hr)


This this aircraft may indeed exist. There has been research in to what
are called Pulsed Detonation Engines (PED's) also refereed to as Pulsed
Detonation Wave Engines. These are different type of engine than the
pulse jet engines, which is already publicly know, and has been tested in
aircraft. The PED's are said to be in laboratory and computer analysis
level of development (reported oct of 91) The PED's exhaust emission
produces smoke trails that closely match the pulser aircraft. Simulations
of theses engines are said to be able to propel large aircraft in the
"Mach 0.2-3.0 flight regime"

How PED's work: PED's use shock waves created in a detonation to compress
the fuel-oxidizer mixture prior to combustion. A cylinder chamber
designed to support the detonation is constructed with a flat forward end
which makes up the thrust wall. Air along with fuel is fed into the
engine from behind the thrust-wall. The detonation wave created travels
forward to the thrust wall at about Mach 4 and compresses the fuel-air
mixture, promotes supersonic combustion and causes a pressure rise in the
engine. The wave then strikes the thrust wall and rebounds accelerating
the combustion products towards the nozzle. Some of the products are
ejected by the wave to the outside air-stream through the air inlet
openings creating a toroidal vortex out side the engine. Then the cycle
repeats.

The said advantages of this type of engine are:
* Theoretically a higher fuel efficiency than a "constant pressure engine"
* Engines can be produced in many sizes and thrust outputs from a few
  inches in diameter at a thrust of several pounds to  larger one that can
  output in the thousands of pounds range.
* They have high thrust to weight ratio (ie.lighter engine, more thrust)
* They are mechanically simple, and have few moving parts.
* They could operate in or out of the atmosphere using fuel oxidizers.


There is very little information on the other reported aircraft. It is
reported as "A triangular-shaped, quiet aircraft". This craft has been
seen by many observers and flying with several F-117 stealth aircraft.


Main Sources:
Aviation Week & Space Technologies, (Oct 1, 90 pp20-23) &
  (oct 28, 91 pp68-69)

Also See:
Aviation Week & Space Technologies [please note: one of these dates is a
December 24, 1990 pg. 41-44         couple days off, on the actual
June 20,     1991 pg. 20-21         magazine date.]
March 9,     1992 pg. 66-67
May 11,      1992 pg. 62-63

6.02: NASA Footage September 10th
---------------------------------
Space Ice or an alien craft dodging a missile. That's the big debate on
the footage taken by an unmanned camera on the space shuttle. One side
says that it is space Ice accelerated by the space shuttles thrusters.
The other side says the excelleration of some the objects don't follow
the correct paths don't match physics. They speculate its a alien craft
dodging a Starwars missile.

Main source: Sightings, FOX Network, airdate September 25, 1992

6.03: Planetoid (Wormwood)
--------------------------
Beyond Pluto astronomers believe there is a ring of ice chunks circling
the solar system 37 to 59 A.U. from the sun. They have called the ice
belt the Kuiper belt. Beyond that astronomers say there is a similarly
composed Oort cloud which forms a sphere around our planetary system that
stretches two light years in distance. A tiny red spot of light was
recorded in hawaii in October of 92,  which is thought to be the first
component of the Kuiper belt ever observed. The object was named 1992 QB1.
It is about 200 km across and 5.1 billion km away from the sun (41.2
a.u.). The object is fairly red, suggesting a surface rich in organics.
The current position is, for 0h UT on September 15, 1992:  0h 00.09+0d
01'.7 (2000.0). It is moving retrograde at only 3" per hour. David Jewitt
and Jane Luu discovered it using the University of Hawaii's 2.2-meter
telescope on Mauna Kea.  They have been searching for such an object for
the last five years. The first images were secured August 30, but just as
with the discovery of Pluto in 1930 the discovery was kept "under wraps"
for awhile to allow a better assessment. Jewitt believes it to be one of
the larger members of the Kuiper belt. Jewitt says that it will take two
months to confirm the object.

Another theory involving the planetoid comes to us from channelers. It is
a hollowed out body that was moved here by the Reptoids, in order to
transport an army of Grays or Reptoids. [sorry, I'm not sure which, I
haven't had a chance to research this in-depth] It is now  parked outside
the orbit of Pluto.  It is currently being used as a base by the
Reptoids.

Then there is also the theory that the planetoid may be the star that is
mentioned in the Bible as "Wormwood" (also translated as "bitterness");
which when the "third angel" in the book of Revelation blew his trumpet,
fell to the earth and poisoned one third of the earths waters.  Another
interesting fact is that "chernobyl" (as in the Nuclear power plant in
"Russia" that had a meltdown) in Ukranian also means Wormwood.

Main Source:
"Beyond Pluto" by MichaaelD. Lemonick, p. 59, Time Magazine Sep. 28, 92
"#Object beyond Pluto", Compuserve article #110734 S14/News/Current Events
  by Roger Sinnott, 14-Sep-92
A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371
Bible,  Revelation chapter 8 Verses 10 & 11


6.04: Project Blue Book
-----------------------
On Sep 30 ,1947  Lt General Twining of ACM expressed his opinion that there
was sufficient substance in reports to warrant a study on UFOs. On Dec.
23,1947 Project Sign was established to collect, collate, evaluate, and
disseminate all information concerning UFO sightings and phenomena.
Project sign completed it evaluations in Feb of 1949 and concluded "No
definite and conclusive evidence is yet available that would prove or
disprove the existence of these UFOs as real aircraft of unknown and
unconventional configuration." Project Sign was changed to Project Grudge
on Dec.16, 1948. Project Grudge recommended that the investigation and
study of UFO reports be reduce in scope. In early 1950 UFO reports by the
public increased. This prompted Project Grudge to be changed to Project
Blue Book in march of 1952.

Project Blue Book goals were to find out:
1: To find an explanation for all the reported sighting of UFO's.
2: To determine if the UFO posed any security threat to the United States.
3: To determine if UFO's exhibit any advanced technology which the U.S.
   could Utilize.

When the project ended the Air Force concluded:
1: There is no evidence that any UFOs are "extraterrestrial vehicles"
2: No UFO has ever given any indication of a threat to the national
   security.
3: There is no evidence that UFO's represent technological developments
   or principals beyond present-day scientific knowledge.

You can get the project Blue Book papers from Any Federal Repository which
has copies of National Archives material (there are various scattered
around the country). Or, you can go to the National Archives in
Washington, DC. They're on microfilm, like the Census records that
genealogists use.

[I will finish researching this later, I had to return the book before I
 was done. :-(]

Main Source:
Project Blue Book: The Top Secret UFO Findings Revealed,
  By Brad Steiger, 1976
[e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)

6.05: Roswell Crash Incident
----------------------------
  The Roswell Incident started with sightings of UFOs on June 24, 1947. In
July 2,  of the sane year Mac Brazel heard a loud crash.  The next day he
went out Horseback riding with a neighbor and came upon a field with
debris scattered about.

 The debris field was 3/4 of a mile long and 300 feet wide. It was
oriented in a northwest to southeast direction.  There was a gouge in the
northwest side of the debris field that was 500 feet long and 10 feet
wide.  The debris on the field mostly consisted of I-beams and parchment
like, paper thin pieces of metal material. The material was very light in
weight, a dull gray in color, and most pieces were 6 to 7 inches in
length.  Some pieces that were even thinner that paper could not be
broken in half,  cut or burned.
  Mac Brazel collected several pieces of the debris and went back to his
ranch.  On July 6,  Brazel went into Roswell to report what he had seen
and to show a piece of the debris to sheriff Wilcox. The sheriff decided
to call the local air base. During this time Frank Joyce called in from
the local radio station to see if anything newsworthy was happening
around town. Brazel gave him the information about what he had found.
  Major Jesse A. Marcel and a few other military personal arrived from
the base only a few minutes after the sheriff had finished  talking to
the people at the base.  Brazel and the military personal left and went
back to the Ranch. The next morning (July 7) they went to the crash
sight. The military retrieved some of the debris and returned to Roswell.
  On July 8, the military came back and sealed off the area, They took
Brazel into custody.  That same day they found a second crash sight two
and 1/2 miles southeast of the first.  Barney Barnett and 4
archaeologists  had stumbled onto the new sight a few minutes before the
military had gotten there.  At the sight was found a "pretty good sized
metallic dull gray object" and 4 small alien bodies. They were 4 to 5
feet tall,  with large pair shaped heads, small bodies and skinny arms
and legs.  They had two large eyes,  no ears and no hair. Their skin was
pinkish grey and leathery.  They were wearing a one piece grey suits. The
civilians were escorted out of the area when the military arrived.

  On July 9th the military escorted Brazel to the radio station , there
he told Frank Joyce that he saw a weather balloon. He left again with the
military and didn't get back to his ranch until around July 15.  Later
when asked about what had happened Brazel said he had given a oath and
could not talk about it.
  The Incident remained closed and the public and  UFO research
organizations at large accepted the weather balloon story until 1970 when
Jesse A.  Marcel broke the silence and told his part in the story.

Main source: UFO Crash at Roswell by Kevin D. Randle & Donald R. Schmitt
  Published 1991 by Avon Books

=== UFO Movies, Documentaries and TV Programs
--------------------------------------------
= 7.00: TV Programs
------------
7.01: E. T. Monitor (the Keystone Inspirational Network)
--------------------------------------------------------
   - A program that originates from Pennsylvania, it has a pre-recorded
and a live section. The person who runs it sells packets of books by
mail-order. He likes to think that he is presenting irrefutable proof not
only of the existence of UFOs but also of the Government's Conspiracy to
keep them secret and frequently features people like Randall Terry.

Main Source: [e-mail]

7.02: Hard Copy (??)
--------------------
   - Belgian UFO's, 1990
   - more European

7.03: Intruders
---------------
    - CBS miniseries June? 1992,
      Based off Budd Hopkins book Intruders

7.04: National Geographic (PBS)
-------------------------------
   - English Crop Circles, 1991

7.05: sightings (FOX)
---------------------
   - Crop circles 1992
   - Mexico video Sightings, Sept 11, 1992
   - NASA Shuttle UFO/(debated Ice chunk), July? 1992

7.06: UFO Incident, The
-----------------------
   - NBC Oct 20, 1975,
   - the Betty Hill abduction story Based on the book "Interrupted
     Journey: Two lost hours aboard a flying saucer" by John Fuller

7.07: Unsolved Mysteries (NBC)
------------------------------
   - Eupen, Belgium UFO, 1991
   - Cash/Landrum UFO, 1990
   - 1965 Kecksburg, PA  UFO, 1990
   - Widthville, W VA UFO, 1992

= 7.08: UFO VIDEOS
------------------
7.09: Close Up
--------------
    - interview w/ two Rhode Island UFO enthusiasts 885-0366, 1992
      MUFON Box 1122, Davisville, RI  02854

7.10: Communion
---------------
    -Based off the book Communion bu Whitley Strieber

7.11: UFO Coverup Live
----------------------
    - UFO film from Guatemala, 1988
      (Note from [e-mail]: most convincing footage I've seen)

7.12: UFO Documentary
---------------------
    - Jesse Marcel interview, 1982

7.13: UFO, The Films Prove It
-----------------------------
    -A melange of television tapes, 1992

=== UFO Magazines and Publications (UFOzines)
---------------------------------------------
[I will include the magazines from the UFO groups later]

8.00: The Circular
------------------
58 Kings Rd., West
End, Woking, Surrey GU24 9LW, England

8.01: The Cerealogist
---------------------
20 Paul St., Frome, Somerset,
BA11 1DX, England

8.02: Connecting Link Magazine
------------------------------
Connecting Link Magazine
9392 Whitneyville Rd.
Alto, MI. 49302-9694

8.03: CONTINUUM
---------------
The official news magazine for ParaNet and MICAP. It is published quarterly
and provides thought-provoking information and articles written by leading
UFOlogists. This magazine provides global insight and reflects material
carried over the world-wide ParaNet Information Service network.
Subscriptions are $18.00/year and are available by sending checks for U.S.
funds to:  ParaNet, Box 172, Wheat Ridge, CO  80034-0172.

8.04: The Crop Watcher
---------------------
3 Selborne Court, Tavistock Close, Romsey, Hampshire, SO517TY, England

8.05: Earth
-----------
61 Ran elagh, Ave., Bradford, BD10 0HF, UK.

8.06: The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic
(EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic,
Incorporated.  The ASA is a non-profit organization dedicated to the
advancement of amateur and professional astronomy and space exploration,
as well as the social and educational needs of its members.

ASA membership application is open to all with an interest in astronomy
and space exploration.  Members receive the Journal of the ASA  and the
Astronomical League's REFLECTOR magazine. Members may also purchase
discount subscriptions to ASTRONOMY and SKY & TELESCOPE magazines.

For information on membership, you may contact the Society at any of the
following addresses:

Astronomical Society of the Atlantic (ASA)
c/o Center for High Angular Resolution Astronomy (CHARA)
Georgia State University (GSU)
Atlanta, Georgia  30303, U.S.A.
Phone: [phone] leave your address and/or receive the latest
                      Society news.
Internet:
[e-mail]

Modem:
ASA BBS: [phone], 300/1200/2400 Baud.

Back issues of the EJASA are also available from anonymous FTP at:
chara.gsu.edu (131.96.5.29)

8.07: The Faithist Journal
--------------------------
Kosmon Publishing
2324 Suffock Avenue
Kingman, Arizona 86401
 C. Benfield (President)
Kasandra Kares (Editor)
Publication is The Faithist Journal
Founded  in 1970
A non-profit organization which publishes "The Faithist Journal"
(Bi-Monthly), magazines and books dealing with New Age topics, including
UFOs.

8.08: Focus
-----------
William L. Moore Publications & Research
See: Fair Witness Project, Inc.
4219 West Olive Avenue Suite #247
Burbank, California 91505
Williarn L. Moore
213-463-0542
Publishing entity for Antares Publishing, The Fair Witness Project, Inc.,
and "Focus" magazine (which specializes in UFOs, New Age, Metaphysical, and
Occult research; offers a substantial listing of books, government document
reprints, papers, pamphlets, back issues of George Van Tassel's
"Proceedings of the College of Universal Wisdom" newsletter, research
files, folios, back issues of "Focus" (the Fair Witness Project
newsletter), cassette tapes, and video tapes for sale.Discounts on various
items are available to booksellers and other qualifie buyers."Focus"
subscribers are entitled to a 25% discount on all items

8.09: Fortean Times
-------------------
1 Shoebury Road, London E6 2AQ UK.

8.10: Inner Light
-----------------
Inner Light Publications
Box 753 New Brunswick,
New Jersey 08903 Publications
Timothy Green Beckley (Publisher & Editor)
Publication is Inner Light
A diverse entity which publishes numerous UFO-related books, periodicals,
tapes, etc., "UFO Review" magazine and the monthly "Inner Light" magazine;
also sponsors numerous UFO conferences and symposiums throughout the United
States.

8.11: International UFO Library Magazine
----------------------------------------
11684 Ventura Blvd. #708 Studio City, CA 91604.

8.12: Magonia
-------------
5 James Terrace, London SW14 8HB, UK.

8.13: Orvotron Newsletter
-------------------------
orvotron bi-monthly newsletter
Solinus and Kortron

We are  pleased to send a "Love Copy" of the most current newsletter to
anyone you think will be interested. Just pass your friend's name and
address on to us and we will mail out the issue compliments of you. Back
issues contain much information which is still relevant and may provide
some clarity on subjects discussed in subsequent newsletters. Love
donations (which should be made payable to Judith A. Wells) are greatly
appreciated and go to Spirit's work to create Heaven on Earth.

 A subscription also entitles you to log-on the Spirit Bulletin Board
Service, a computer/modem system with files  on alternate energy,
UFO/extraterrestrial happenings, politics, science, medical information,
the conspiracy and much more. The files are updated frequently and we
encourage you to use and contribute to this "library at your fingertips".
You may access this information 24 hours a day by calling via computer
1-704-297-5973.

For a year's subscription (six bimonthly issues) and userstatus on
Spirit BBS please send $30.00 (USA) or $40.00 (all other countries)
in check or money order (no cash please) made payable to:

Judith A. Wells           Phone   - [phone]
Route 2, Box 309B         FidoNet - 1:379/703
Vilas, NC  28692          BBS     - 704-297-5973

       ,
8.14: Ovni Presence
-------------------
CP 342, CH-1800, Vevey 1, Switzerland.

8.15: Revelations of Awareness
------------------------------
"Revelations of Awareness" published by Cosmic Awareness Communications
(CAC).

Revelations of Awareness is a Newsletter that covers UFO as they relate
to channeling and the New Age movement.  All the information given in the
newsletter is information recorded from channeling sessions. The format
of of the news letter begins with a question asked of the Cosmic
Awareness, then replies are given by the Awareness through the rest of
the news letter starting out with the phrase "This Awareness indicates..."

The following Statement appears at the top of every Issue:

Cosmic Awareness is the force that expressed Itself through Jesus of
Nazareth, the Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, Edgar Cayce and other great
avatars who served as 'Channels' for the 'Heavenly Father' and who speaks
again today as the world begins to enter the 'New Age' of spiritual
consciousness and awareness. Since 1963 Cosmic Awareness has been
communicating through carefully trained channels. This information is for
those who desire to help in bringing in the new age. Throughout the
thousands of 'Readings' given through these various channels, Cosmic
Awareness tells us not to believe anything, but to question, explore,
doubt, and discover for yourself, through your own channel what is the
truth. Cosmic Awareness will only 'indicate' and 'suggest'. Neither C.A.C
or any of the Interpreters is responsible for anything Cosmic Awareness
states in any of these readings, nor does C.A.C. or the Interpreters
necessarily agree with the statements of Cosmic Awareness. The
interpreters interpret the energies as they see them in trance levels and
are not personally responsible for what is said. This is entirely the
responsibility of the editor. Members of C.A.C. are invited to send in
questions of general interest to ask Awareness for possible publication
in this newsletter.

Paul Shockley, Interpreter.

The Revelations of Awareness comes out every three weeks The memberships
which are available (using the Honer system) are:
Limited Income $30 per year   $9 quarterly
Individual     $42 per year   $12 quarterly
Family         $52 per year   $20 quarterly
Contributing   $77 per year   $25 quarterly
Sponsoring     $144 per year  $40 quarterly
Benefactor     $500 per year  $150 quarterly
Patron         $1000 per year $250 quarterly
Endowing       $5000 per year $1500 quarterly

Outside USA Add $15.00 per year to cover postage (including Canada)
To send off for information about the C.A.C. or to subscribe to their
news letter write to: Cosmic Awareness Communications
                      P.O. Box 115
                      Olympia, WA 98507

8.16: Swamp Gas Journal
-----------------------
The Swamp Gas Journal Covers a variety of scientific UFO related Phenomena.
It reviews articles, books and research publications put out by different
researchers and organizations.

The Swamp Gas Journal is free with limited distribution, but is available
primarily through zine exchanges, regularly contributing Fortean info, or
by providing two (2) International Postal Reply Coupons in lieu of a
subscription (to cover postage).

The Swamp Gas Journal is a ufozine published irregularly by:

Ufology Research of Manitoba
Box 1918
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Canada   R3C 3R2

The SGJ is also available on an experimental basis on internet by e-mail
to: [e-mail]

8.17: UFO Universe
------------------
GCR Plublishing Group, Inc.
1700 Broadway, 34th Floor
New York, New York 10019
Publishes "UFO Universe" magazine.
Global Communications Refer to: Inner Light Publications

=== UFO Book Publishers
-----------------------
9.00: Advent Publishing Company
-------------------------------
P.O. Box 3748
Carson City, NV  89702
Publish book and the Phenox Project Reports.

9.02: Arnerica West Publishers
------------------------------
P.O. Box 6451 Tehachapi, California 93582
George Green Telephone Number : 805-822-9655
Publishes a wide variety of books and tapes dealing with New Age subjects
and UFO phenomenon.

9.03: Arcturus Book Service
---------------------------
1443 S.E. Port St. Lucie Blvd.
Port St. Lucie, Florida 34952, USA
Robert Girard & Monica Williams-Girard

Arcturus Book Service Catalog
Maintains a listing of UFO-related books. Their goal is to provide a wide
selection of books relating to the study of unexplained phenomena. Arcturus
provides a publication; "Leading Edge, the bi-monthly newsletter of the
Nevada Aerial Research Group.
Subscriptions for monthly Arcturus Book Service Catalog available for $6.00
in the U.S.,
Canada, and Mexico; $12.00 in Europe and South America
Arcturus pays for UFO-related books, manuscripts and is interested in being
informed of all new titles released.

9.04: Condor Books, Inc.
------------------------
351 West 54th Street
New York, New York 10019
Al Weiss (Publisher)
212-586 -4432
Publishes numerous books dealing with the UFO phenomena. At one time,
Condor Books published "UFO Universe" magazine;"UFO Universe" is now
published by:
GCR Publishing Group, Inc.,
1700 Broadway, 34th Floor,
New York, New York 10019.

9.05: Document Research Services
--------------------------------
PO Box 10011
Berkeley,  Ca. 94709-5011

They provide declassified govt. documents and an index
of UFOs in the New York Times 1947-1987
Send SASE for a list of documents

9.06: Earth Star Publications
-----------------------------
P.O. Box 117
Paonia, Colorado 81428
Ann Ulrich (Editor & Publisher)
303-527-3257
The Star Beacon
A self-publishing service which will perforrn typesetting, layout,
printing, and shipping of self-published books for a one-time fee. After
initial fee is paid, the author keeps lOO% of any profits
generated from the book. Ann Ulrich is associated with the UFO Contact
Center International as one of its Associate Directors.

9.07: Eden Press
----------------
Box 399
Careywood, Idaho 83809
Desiree Eden
208-683-2439
The publishing arm of the Planetary Professional Citizens Committeee (PPCC),
which is no longer in existence due to the death of its Director, Jerome
Eden, in 1989. However, EDEN Press still pro- vides a wide range of books
dealing with the UFO phenomenon.

9.08: JACO Book Publishers
--------------------------
P.O. Box 3135
Prescott, Arizona 86302
John H. Andrews
602-778-0018
JACO Book Publishers provides many UFO and Extraterrestrial-related books.

9.09: The Library of the New Essenes of Inyo
--------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 257
June Lake, California 93529
71448-7405
Nicholas Faust (Curator)
Originally known as "The School of Thought" which had been started by Hope
Troxell in 1960. It's original focus was UFO literature, especially that
dealing with contactees. Hope Troxell died in 1979 and The School of
Thought closed in 1980.In 1980 became The Library of the New Essenes of
Inyo. It assumed Hope Troxell's UFO materials and continually added to it
over the years. The Library also sells copies of Hope Troxell's published
material.

9.10: Luna Ventures
-------------------
P.O. Box 398
Suisun, California 94585
Publishes the Luna Ventures Catalog" which is a comprehensive listing of
available newsletters, books, microfiche, magazines, etc. for sale. Luna
Ventures will also accept manuscripts for publication.

9.11: The Pleiades Project
--------------------------
P.O. Box 386 Atwood, Ca 92601
Randolph Winters :213-281-6282
Terra  (Contact)
Founded in: 1985
A one-man organization for the dissemination of the information received by
Billy Meier from his Pleiadian contacts. Mr. Meier receives messages from
his contacts of the Pleiades star formation. The Pleiades Project compiles
these messages and offers them in audio and video formats. "Contact Terra"
is a quarterly newsletter which contains updated information and news about
Mr. Meier's contacts.
The Meier Chronicles VHS/Beta - $59.00 (82 minutes)
The Movie Footage     VHS/Beta - $49.00 (1 hour)
The Metal Analysis     VHS/Beta - $39.00 each (45 minutes)
The Entire Trilogy - $99.00 (save $188.00)
Each audio cassette $20.00 plus  postage & handling

9.12: UFO Audio-Video Clearing House
------------------------------------
P.O. Box 342
Yucaipa, Ca]ifornia 92399-0342
David Aaron (Director)
714-795-3361
Founded on May 18, 1988 and1232 members.
Offers an updated listing of UFO radio & television programs on video and
audio tape, going back to 1954. Video tapes are offered in Beta and VHS
format. Over 50% of their available product is donated by members.

9.13: UFO Books
---------------
P.O. Box 1053 - 514 First Street Florence, Arizona 85232
Christine (Stevens) Cox
602-868-4273
Christine Cox distributes UFO-related books, some of which were written and
edited by Wendelle Stevens (See: UFO Photo Archives), who is her father.
UFO Books also provides periodic flyers which contain UFO-related books,
photos, and calendars for sale.

9.14: UFO Photo Archives
------------------------
P.O. Box 17206
Tucson, Arizona 85710
Wendelle C. Stevens
UFO Journal Of Facts
Offers UFO-related books, most of which concentrate on, and thoroughly
investigate, individual cases. UFO Photo Archives gears its material for
those who want more in-depth knowledge about individual cases instead of a
broad overview of many cases.
In addition to books, UFO Photo Archives also sells UFO calendars and
posters. All books, posters, and calendars are sold through mail order only
and must be prepaid, including postage.
Their publication, "UFO Journal Of Facts" is a new magazine, filled with
color pictures and reports, concentrating on factual UFO investigative
reporting.

9:15: Worldwide UFO Newsclipping Bureau and Public Information Center 955
West
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Lancaster Road Suite 420
Orlando, Florida 32809
Provides a 16-20 page monthly report of worldwide UFO news clippings (all
foreign news stories are translated into English).
Subscription costs:
$24.95 /6 months $47.50/ one year
Special on Back Issues: all of 1988 for $39.95.
Besides the newsclipping service, Worldwide UFO also offers UFO-related
audio and video tapes (VHS format, approximately 2 hours in length) for
sale at the following prices:
Audio Tape - $ 4.00/ tape (buy two, get one free: no limit) Video Tape -
$20.00/ tape (buy two, get one free: no limit)

=== Miscellaneous Information
-----------------------------
10.00: alt.alien.visitors archives (back issues)
------------------------------------------------
Occasionally I have seen requests for information on past articles in
alt.alien.visitors. If you desire something, I have the entire newsgroup
archive back to July 13, 1992. I access it frequently. I have no way to
ftp it to another system for public access but would be glad to email
portions of it upon request. The responses are not guaranteed to be
correct or complete.

You can email me at [e-mail] and I will do my best.
[e-mail] (Gregg Brown)

10.01: A UFO Book List
-------------------------------
I'd like to take this opportunity to remind people of my UFO bibliography
file, and to solicit contributions and book comments for it.  The file
can be ftp'd from paul.rutgers.edu, directory pub/ufo, file
bibliography.Z (compressed format).  The file is organized by author, and
also again by date-of-publication, and also includes Keith Rowell's
excellent bibliography file (which is also worked into the above two
parts).  Many titles have comments from various people as to the value of
the book; I would like any comments on any of the books from anyone, and
also additional books for inclusion. Check out the UFO Bibliography that
you can ftp at:
  paul.rutgers.edu
  The file is pub/UFO/bibliography.Z It has books by author, a second
  listing by date, and also the names of prominent authors in the field.

For more information contact: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)


10.02: Big Foot (Sasquatch)
---------------------------
   Our research group is currently investigating reports and sightings of
the animal known as "Bigfoot" or "Sasquatch". If you or somebody you know
has had such a sighting, or come across what may be evidence supporting
the existence of such an animal, please get in contact with us in one of
the following formats:

o Leave a private message in electronic mail:
  [e-mail] (Thomas Hill)
o Call Thomas Hill at 216-362-6529.
o Or write:

  Thomas E. Hill
  16124 Richard Dr.
  Brook Park, OH 44142

 Contact with us can be totally anonymous if you wish. We are especially
interested in Ohio sightings but are by no means limited to
investigations in that state. Please, serious responses only.


10.03: Free UFO Class
---------------------
Penn State University has Free U classes that are offered to the public
at no charge!  They supply a classroom to those who wish to teach a
subject and the public may attend them for free. One of the classes
offered is a UFO class Organized and taught by Janet Smith, and Beth
Combs.

In the class they discuss every aspect of the UFO phenomenon such as the
Billie Meier investigation, government cover-ups, Zecharia Sitchin who
wrote the Earth Chronicles series, Mars probe, Mars Face and many other
topics. The class also offers guest speakers who have done UFO research
plus videos, movies and articles about various UFO phenomenon.

The classes are held every Monday in room 207 of Sackett Building at Penn
State University in State College, PA. The starting time is 7:00 pm, EDT
(soon to be EST) and they ends sometime after 9:00 pm. The class will be
held until December 7th. The class may continue after the holidays into
next semester, but that depends on our level of interest.

If someone has questions or would like to contribute to the group in some
way, (ie. guest speakers, movies, different types of information, etc.)
contact Janet Smith at [e-mail] or write to her at: 123
Ramblewood Road, Pennsylvania Furnace, PA 16865.  Home phone: (814)
237-6763, Work phone: [phone].

10.04: Freedom of Information
-----------------------------
In the US, you write to the agency you want to reach, addressed to
the "Freedom of Information Officer".  A list of agencies is available
from the US Government Printing Office. Their order number is:
202-783-3238

The "US Government Manual" (1991/92), price $23 (they take MC/Visa
orders over the phone).  They will also send you a catalog of all
manuals/documents available from the USGPO for free. Order at the same
number.  [I have more information on this, I will add it later.]

Main Source: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)

10.05: Hidden Ancient Ruins
---------------------------
The address is Mystic Mountain Adventures
Dept. 100 11142 Manhattan Avnue, Ste. 43
Manhattan Beach, CA 90266   Ph# [phone].

10.06: Inter Library Loans (ILL)
--------------------------------
If you would like to research an the various UFO topics mentioned in this
FAQ and you don't have a large bank account, go to your local library and
ask about the Inter Library Loan System. The ILL lets you check out books,
audio tapes, video tape, and get copies of magazine articles that your local
library might not have. In many cases there is no charge for using ILL, this
depend upon you local library. Almost all the book I have used to research
this FAQ were ordered through ILL. Check it out. :-)


10.07: NASA Shuttle Footage
---------------------------
NASA Select on Satcom 2, Transponder 13, carries the whole mission, live
and anybody with a satellite dish can tune in.  You can find the original
uplink and shuttle audio on Transponder 5. This is the raw video with
shuttle to ground audio communications on it.


10.08: UFO Related anonymous FTP Sites
---------------------------------------
[Also See: 10.00: A Complete UFO Book List]


phoenix UFO Pics
----------------
phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17)
In /pub/ufo_and_space_pics

NASA Pics Sites
----------------
NOTE: the material at these sites is exceedingly voluminous;
I'd strongly suggest just getting the CD-ROMs instead of attempting
to transfer scores of gigabytes of pix and other material.

To access the online catalog of NASA material, CD-ROMS, et cetera:

    telnet nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov
    login as "NODIS"
    no password

Anonymous ftp sites (five):

nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.10.4]

    This is a VAX/VMS box, so you must ftp-login as "anonymous".  To get
    a dir listing into a file on your system:

    ftp> dir [...] file_on_your_system

vab02.larc.nasa.gov

    lots of stuff, including Aliens of all colors, and UFO pix (though
this
    seems to mirror a lot of what's at phoenix.oulu.fi and has some
    additional material).

ames.arc.nasa.gov

    online copies of what appears to be all NASA's CD-ROMs, and lots of
    GIFs, *.img and *.jpg from most (all?) space missions since Apollo.

iris1.ucis.dal.ca

    dunno; it appears to be down today (Saturday, 18-July-1992).

ummts.cc.umich.edu
      |
 {changed to}
      |
      V
archive.umich.edu

    apparently popular (and, hence, slow).  Is supposed to have many
    NASA and Voyager data files.

Main Source: [e-mail] (Thad Floryan)

=== UFO Organizations
------------------

11.00: Aerial Phenomenon Research: The Indiana Group
----------------------------------------------------
18 Davis Drive Mt. Vernon, Indiana 47620
Francis L. Ridge (Director)
812-838-3120 / 812-838-9843
Publishers of : Indiana UFO Newsletter
Founded in 1986
A statewide organization which attempts to immediately respond to UFO
sightings

11.01: The Aetherius Society
----------------------------
6202 Afton Place Hollywood,
California 90028-8298
Detroit Branch
17670 West 12 Mile Road
Southfield, Michigan 48076
313-552-9153 / 313-552-9159
Reverend Lesley Young
(General Committeee) : 213~65-9652/ 213~67-HEAL (4325)
Publishers of : The Aetherius Society Journal : Cosmic Voice
Founded in 1960
The Hollywood, California office is the American headquarters for The
Society which was founded in England in 1955. In the US, the Society was
incorporated in 1960 as a non-profit religious, scientific, and educational
organization.
The Society is a metaphysical, channeling organization whose
founder/president, Sir George King, is a Western Master of Yoga and who has
been in contact with Extraterrestrial Intelligences for over 35 years. He
acts as a channel for the dissemination of Higher Wisdom from These
Sources.
The Society's objective is to explain the presence of UFOs around the Earth
and to make known knowledge given to their president by Advanced Beings who
reside in this Solar System. This information is disseminated through
books, pamphlets, cassettes and albums and two newsletters, "The Aetherius
Society Journal" and "Cosmic Voice".
Also, study courses in: "Metaphysical and Occult Sciences" and "Cosmic
Revelations" to further spread the word and to explain the cosmic
significance of messages received from the Advanced Beings. Regular
meetings at the U.S. and England headquarters as well as by associated
branches throughout the world.
Prayer Circles are organized during a Spiritual Push (or Magnetization
Period) at different holy mountain sites, when the giant Interplanetary
Spacecraft is brought into Earth's orbit by a Cosmic Master. Helpers who
attend these Power Circles send out the Spiritual energies from this Cosmic
Master to help mankind.

11.02: Ancient Astronaut Society
--------------------------------
1921 St. Johns Avenue
Highland Park, Illinois 60035-3105
Gene M. Phillips (Founder) :708-295-8899
Publication is Ancient Skies
Founded in 1973. non-profit, tac-exempt organization operated for
scientific, literary and educational purposes. The primary objectives of
the Society are to search for evidence of whether Earth was visited in the
remote past by intelligent beings from outer space and to determine whether
a highly developed, technological civilization existed on Earth before our
recorded history.
The Society also provides complete study courses in: "Metaphysical and
Occult Sciences" and "Cosmic Revelations" to explain the cosmic
significance of messages received from Advanced Beings.

11.03: Ancient Truth Research Foundation
----------------------------------------
6146 Eleanor Avenue #205 Los Angeles, California 90~036
Albert Rainey
213'464-5948
Publication is Cosmic Current News
Interested in many New Age topics, including UFOs.

11.04: The Awareness Reserch Foundation, Inc.
---------------------------------------------
DeSoto Square
No. 29, 35 Ritter Road
Hayesville, North Carolina 28904
Helen I. Hoag (Executive Director)
704-389-8672
New Age organization with many interests, including UFOs; investigates
various metaphysical activities and issues findings through publication of
various books.

11.05: Borderland Sciences Research Foundation (BSRF)
-----------------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 429
Garberville, California 9544429
Contact : Tom Brown
Telephone Number : 707-986-7211
Publication is : Journal of Borderland Research
Founded in: 1945
Functions as clearinghouse, specializing in rare and unusual information.
BSRF is an alternative  scientific movement which deals with a variety of
borderland subjects, including UFOs; a
non-profit organization; its members are people who take an active interest
in observing the physical, mental, and spiritual environment. In addition
BSRF studies: Light & Color affects on people, Radionics, Dowsing, Free
Energy, Orgone Energy, Hollow
Earth Mysteries, Anomalies, Fortean Phenomena, Hypnosis, Photography of the
Invisible, etc. and offers a catalog of available books, reports, and
tapes.

11.06: BRITISH UFO RESEARCH ASSOCIATION (BUFORA)
------------------------------------------------
Commonly called BUFORA. It was formed in 1962 as a federation
of eight regional UK UFO groups. These included the London
UFO Research Organisation (LUFORO, founded in 1959) the largest
UK group at the time and the British Flying Saucer Bureau (BFSB,
founded in 1952) which was the oldest UK group.

BUFORA publishes six issues per year of the A4 magazine UFO TIMES.
Current annual membership subscription is 18 pounds sterling.
Approx membership 500. Current senior officers include Stephen
Gamble (Chairman) and John Spencer (Vice-chairman).

Contact address : The Leys, 2c Leyton Road, Harpenden, Hertfordshire,
AL5 2TL, Great Britain. Phone [phone].

11.07: California UFO
---------------------
1800 South Robertson Blvd
Box 355
Los Angeles, California 90035
Vicki Cooper (Editor); Don Ecker (Researcher)
Telephone Numbers : 213-273-9409 /818-951-1250
Publication : UFO
Publishes the bi-monthly UFO" magazine. Additionally, this organization
sponsors annual conferences which concentrate on a variety of UFO-related
subjects.

11.08: Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS)
------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 218                            c/o Mr. Lawrence Fawcett
Coventry, Cormecticut 06238     [or]    471 Goose Lane
Peter Gersten (Director)                Coventry, Connecticut 06238
Lawrence Fawcett (Asst Director & Publisher)
Barry Greenwood (Research Director & Editor)
        P.O.Box 176, Stoneham, MASS, 02180, USA
Publication is : Just Cause
Founded in : 1978

A non-profit organization to uncover all existing documentation relating to
governrnent involvement in UFO investigations and research. To accomplish
this, CAUS files numerous Freedom of Inforrnation Act (FOIA) lawsuits in an
attempt to get the governrnent to release relevant documents.Their "Just
Cause" quarterly newsletter carries events and provides updated UFO news
from around the world. They published a book too -- "Clear Intent"

11.09: Committee for the Scientific Investigation of
       Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP)
----------------------------------------------------
Refer to: The Skeptical Inquirer
P.O. Box 229
Buffalo, New York 14215{)229
Paul Kurtz (Chairman - Skeptical Inquirer)
Philip J. Klass (UFO Subcommittee)
Lynda Harwood (Public Relations)
716-834-3222
716-834-0841
 "The Skeptical Inquirer" is a non-profit, tax-exempt organization.
CSICOP is headed by Paul Kurtz and investigates claims of the
Paranorrnal, including UFOs and UFO-related activity.The committee's
investigations, findings, commentaries, etc. are published in "The
Skeptical Inquirern.

11.10: COMPUTER UFO NETWORK (CUFON)
-----------------------------------
Bulletin Board system run by UFO Reporting and Information Service. Date of
formation not known. Information director : Dale Goudie, SYSOP: Jim Klotz
Based Seattle, Washington, USA. Board number [phone], parameters
300/1200/2400 bps 8 bit no parity 1 stop bit.

11.11: Contactee
----------------
P.O. Box 12
New Milford, New Jersey 07646
Ellen Crystall (Director)
Studies UFOs by direct observation; quarterly newsletter, "Contactee"
details activities.Tne primary goal of Contactee is to educate about
world-wide contacts being made with UFOs and to disseminate information to
all interested parties.
Contactee also sells books and sponsors various conferences.
Regular Member (those who claim to have had alien contact) and
Auxiliary Member (those who do not claim UFO contact)
membership fee is $20.00 per year and includes the newsletter.
Contactee accepts articles for its newsletter.

11.12: Cosmic Awareness Communications
--------------------------------------
P.O. Box 115
Olympia, Washington 98507
Vikki T. (Correspondence Secretary)
Pulication is : Reveltions of Awareness
A tax-exempt organization.
Studies New Age subjects, including UFOs. This group is centered around the
"channelings" of a "Force" which refers to itself as "Cosmic Awareness". CA
believes that this "Force" has expressed itself through selected people in
history including Jesus, the Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, and Edgar Cayce,
among others.
Publication, "Revelations of Awareness, has published over 300 editions and
details various New Age subjects. Subscribers receive a catalog listing all
available back issues and subjects covered. Membership is $30.00 per year.
Will accept memberships for three month periods ($3.00 per month), prepaid.
Individual/Family $ 3.00/ month or $30.00/ year New Age-related (including
UFOs) books and tapes available.

11.13: CSETI
------------
Dr. Steven Greer 704-274-5671
Asheville,N.C.

11.14: Delval UFO, Inc.
-----------------------
948 Almshouse Road
Ivyland, Pennsylvania 18974
Anthony Volpe (President)
215-357-2909
Publication is the Awakening; the group was founded in 1973.
A channeling, contactee UFO organization, founded in 1973.their publication
"Awakening", is offered nine 9 times a year; they sell UFO-related books
and tapes.

11.15: The Fair Witness Project, Inc.
-------------------------------------
Parent Organization: William L. Moore Publications & Research
4219 West Olive Avenue Suite #247
Burbank, California 91505
213-463-0542
Publication is : Focus
A non-profit corporation whose income is used to fund the research efforts
of qualified persons selected by the Directors of the Fair Witness Project.
They accept donations and will send an acknowledgement of that donation for
tax purposes.

11.16: The Federation
---------------------
The Federation is a group of people who feel it is high time we got
off this rock and started exploring the great unknown of space.  The
Federation has drawn out in blue print form a drive system that is a a super
semi conducting crystaline structure. To get more information on the
Federation send a 3.5 floppy and they will place an info packet on it and
send
it back to you. You must have a mac that has 5.0 microsoftword or better.Send
to this adrress:

The Federation
C/O Lady Rhavyn
Po box 231772
Anchorage, Alaska
          99523-1772

If you have any questions feel free to send to this account.
[e-mail]


11.17: Flying Saucer Information Center
---------------------------------------
7803 Ruanne Court
Pasadena, Maryland 21122
James H. Wales : Update
Founded in 1954
Acts as a clearing house for the distribution of UFO information to the
general public. Laura Mundo began this organization in 1954.
Group feels the Earth is in danger due to upcoming radical changes in the
atmosphere (sunspot activity) and Space Beings are here to help. They will
be able to either solve the problem or take selected Earth people to safe
locations (inside their insulated spaceships) until the atmospheric
activity calms down. When humans return to Earth after surviving the
atmospheric instability, they will begin the Universal Way of Life, which
is a standard way of life on other planets. Also believe Space People
living on Earth today are to here to monitor us and help.

11.18: FORTEAN RESEARCH CENTER (FRC)
------------------------------------
This was founded in 1982 by Ray Boeche and deals with all aspects of Fortean
Phenomena. The current Director is Scott Colbourn. The contact address for
the Center is P.O.Box 94627, Lincoln, Nebraska, 68509, USA. The Center runs
a Bulletin Board on [phone].

11.19: FUND FOR UFO RESEARCH (FUFOR)
------------------------------------
Formed in 1979, commonly called FUFOR. Not a membership organisation, but
awards grants towards research activities. Funds raised primarily by
donation.
Chairman Bruce Macabee. Contact address : P.O. Box 277, Mount Rainer,
Maryland,
20712, USA.
                            Bitnet: Fsdlk@alaska
( FAQ Part 2 of 3)        Internet: [e-mail]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~  ...........  .......          .           .       .            ~
~  .            .      .        Nasha tai no kasei!         .   . ~
~  ...          .......           .            .                  ~
~  .            .               Prosperity and Long Life, To You. ~
~  .... xisting . hantom              .             .             ~
~                             .                            .      ~
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              alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions
         This FAQ was last updated: 10/30/92 (minor Corrections)
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                             (Part 3 of 3)


11.20: The Fund for UFO Research, Inc.
--------------------------------------
P.O. Box 277
Mt. Rainier, Maryland 20712
Bruce Maccabee, PhD (Chairman)
Publication is: Quarterly Report
Founded in 1979
2000 Members
A non-profit, tax-exempt organization based in Washington, D.. whose
mission is to provide grants for scientific research and public education
projects dealing with the UFO phenomenon. Since 1979 has raised more than
$150,000.00 from more than 2000 contributors. Also sponsors and awards the
annual Donald E. Keyhoe Journalism Award."
The Fund sponsors such projects the release of U.S.
Government documents concerning UFOs under the Freedom of Informatioon
Act,computer-aided analysis of UFO photographs, research into major UFO
sightings around the world,
research into "Operation Majestic 12", psychological testing of people who
reported being abducted by apparent aliens, international symposiums and
conducts interviews and lectures.
The Fund takes the position that many reported UFOs cannot be identified as
conventional aerial vehicles or phenomena. Thus, UFO reports are
potentially of enormous significance and merit serious scientific research.

11.21: Gulf Breeze Skywatch
---------------------------
904-433-2737 (Bruce and Ann Morrison)

11.22: Inner-Peace Prosperity Network (IPPN)
--------------------------------------------
12628 Black Saddle Lane
Germntown, Maryland 20874-5001
Patrick O'Connell
301-972-1980
IPPN believes that extraterrestrials have already landed and established
underground bases, mainly in the western and southwestern United States.
"Trends & Predictions Analystn, is a compilation of UFO-related theories,
news, and current events; newsletter (printed twice a year) also details
available books, papers, and tapes for sale by IPPN.
Membership rates:
$ 4.00/ year (U.S. & Canada) $ 5 .00/ year (Foreign) $12.vO /3 years (IJ.S.
& Canada) $15.00 / 3 years (Foreign)
Membership includes the newsletter. IPPN also sells Name Lists of people
who subscribe to New Age periodicals. IPPN gears the selling of these lists
to those interested in selling New Age- related products. As of September
1990, the charge for these lists are:
1000 Narnes $20.00 2000 Names $40.00 3000 Narnes $60.00
IPPN also sells back-issues of "The New Atlantean Journaln, a defunct
periodical dealing with New Age-related subjects, including UFOs.

11.23: Intercontinental UF Galactic Spacecraft-Research and
       Analytic Network (ICUFON)
------------------------------------------------------------
 35-40 75th Street Suite 4G
Jackson Heights, New York 11372
Colman S. VonKeviczky (Director)
718-72-7948
A non-profit organization whose goal is to persuade the United Nations (and
the world's governments) to establish an official World Authority for UFO
Affairs (the WASA Project), to seek and establish contact with
extraterrestrial galactic powers; maintains that the world's governments
have known about UFOUs for several decades and that they are conducting
covert warfare in an attempt to try to stop any invasion from outer space.
ICUFON wants to open full dialogue with any and all extraterrestrial
forces.
ICUFON maintains an Archives Department which contains UFO cases,
photographs, movie films, declassified military and governmental
documentation from all over the world.

11.24: INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE FOR UFO RESEARCH (ICUFOR)
---------------------------------------------------------
Formed in 1979 as a UFOlogical 'United Nations'. The membership consists
of representative organisations for various countries. Commonly called
ICUR. Members include BUFORA (UK); Center for UFO Studies (USA); CISU
(Italy); MUFON (USA); SUFOI (Denmark); Project UNICAT (USA) Project URD
(Sweden); VUFORS (Australia).

ICUR's objectives are to promote data exchange between groups and to
help establish common standards and terminology.

Officers are Chairman: Robert Digby (BUFORA, UK); Vice-Chairman: Walter
Andrus (MUFON, USA); Secretary : Stephen Gamble (BUFORA, UK) and
Treasurer : John Spencer (BUFORA, UK). Contact address is : P.O. Box 314,
Penn, High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, HP10 8DH, Great Britain.

11.25: Internationa1 Fortean Organization (INFO)
------------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 367
Arlington, VA 22210-0367
Raymond Manners (President & Journal Editor)
Publication is INFO Journal
Founded in 1965 by Ronald Willis
A non-profit corporation established for the educational and scientific
study of Fortean phenomena. INFO investigates the strange and unreasonable
events that happen in this world, including UFOs, lost civilizations,
physical anomalies, Atlantis, Bigfoot, vanished civilizations, etc.
Today, INFO continues the work of Charles Fort to collect, record, and
publish reports of strange occurrences. Their findings are published in the
INFO Journal. INFO holds an annual convention, called FortFest, in the
Washington D.C. area.
Annual membership fee includes the "INFO Journal" is $12.00 in the U.S. and
$16.00 for foreign countries. INFO maintains files on all of its
investigations, cases, etc. Slides, books, and tapes are for sale and back
issues of "INFO Journal" are also available. The INFO Research Service
performs funded research for the media while the INFO Research Library is
open to scholars.

11.26: INTRUDERS FOUNDATION
----------------------------
Organisation formed by abduction researcher Budd Hopkins to provide support
and a forum for abductees to discuss their experiences. Contact address :
PO Box 30233, New York, New York, 10011, USA.  Phone and fax: [phone]

11.27: Island Skywatch
----------------------
164-22 77th Road Flushing,
New York 11366 : Bill Knell (Director)
718-591-1854 (24-Hour Hotline) . The New York UFO Report : Island
Publication is Skywatch Journal
1989 by Bill Knell
A tax-exempt organization whose goal is the scientific and objective study
of the UFO phenomenon. Membership ($25.00 per year) includes one year
subscription to the "New York UFO Report" and the Island Skywatch Journal,
one copy of "Hidden Truth: The UFO Story" (a two-hour video history about
UFOs written by Bill Knell), the opportunity to attend free local meetings,
free training as a UFO investigator, and the opportunity to investigate
Island Skywatch cases.They offer a wide variety of books, audiotapes, video
tapes, for sale. Bill Knell has cable TV UFO show "UFOs Over Long Island"
on the Brookhaven Cable TV system every Thursday at 6:30 p.m. (channel
35).UFO Abductee Support Group offered as well.

11.28: J. ALLEN HYNEK CENTER FOR UFO STUDIES (CUFOS)
-----------------------------------------------------
2457 West Peterson Avenue
Chicago, Illinois 60659
Contacts
Mark Rodeghier (President)
George Eberhart (Librarian & Archivist)
312-271-3611
Publications are : The Journal of UFO Studies and International UFO
Reporter (IUR)
Founded in 1973 by Dr. J. Allen Hynek

A non-profit organization whose goal is to promote serious research into
the UFO phenomena through the expertise of an international group of
scientists, academians, and volunteers. This organization has a worldwide
network of field investigators that interview witnesses, examine physical
evidence and gather any other relevant information. The major purpose of
CUFOS is to act as a clearinghouse - aplace where UFO experiences can be
reported and researched. Dr. J. Allen Hynek, who was con- sidered one of
the world's pre- eminent authorities on the UFO phenomenon, first became
involved with UFOs as Scientific Consultant to the U.S. Air Force from 1948
to 1968, and was Scientific Director of CUFOS until his death in 1986. He
coined the phrase "close encounters of the third kind" and acted as
technical advisor to director Steven Spielberg on the movie of the same
name.
CUFOS maintains the world's largest repository of data about UFO phenomena,
second only to the US Government! This
material includes more than 50,000 cases of UFO sightings and a library of
more than 5,000 books and magazines, which cover all aspects of the UFO
phenomena. CUFOS promotes various activities, projects, publications,
symposiums, conferences, seminars and field trips to various UFO-related
locations and sells journals, books, audiocassette tapes, and other
publications.
The "International UFO Reporter (IUR)", published bi-monthly, reports on
current sightings, news and articles on current UFO topics. CUFOS also
publishes the annual "Journal of UFO Studies" which presents a collection
of scholarly papers on the UFO
phenomenon. A $25.00 contribution entitles a member to become an ASSOCIATE
of CUFOS and to receive the "International UFO Reporter" for one year.
The Center publishes the International UFO Reporter

11.29: The Massachusetts Center for the study of Aerial Phenomena
------------------------------------------------------------------
43 Harrison Street Reading,
Massachusetts 01867 Contact
Jim Melesciuc
617-944 0686
A loose-knit organization comprised of researchers who wish to remain
unaffiliated with any specific UFO group and concentrate  efforts in
individual fields of interest; many members do belong to other UFO groups,
such as CAUS, MUFON, CUFOS, etc.

11.30: Multi-national Investigations Cooperative on Aerial Phenomena (MICAP)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based in Denver, Colorado. Director is Micheal Corbin.
They can be reached at [phone].
P.O. Box 172, Wheat Ridge, CO  80034-0928
MICAP is an international membership group dedicated to the scientific
exploration of the UFO phenomenon. Membership is $30.00 per year and includes
a subscription to CONTINUUM.

For application, call 303-431-8797, or write to MICAP at Box 172, Wheat
Ridge,
CO  80034-0172.

11.31: Mutual UFO Network, Inc. (MUFON)
----------------------------------------
103 Oldtowne Road Seguin, Texas 78155099
Contact Telephone Number Publications
Founded Number of Members
Walter H, Andrus, Jr.
512-379-9216

Founded in May 31, 1969 with a membership of 2500 Originally based in
Illinois it was called the Mid-west UFO Network, changing its name around
1972 to Mutual to represent its growing role as a national and international
group.

MUFON has local groups in each State within the USA and has representatives
in many countries outside the USA. Current membership number is around
4000. MUFON publishes 12 issues per year of the A4 MUFON UFO Journal : MUFON
Field Investigator's Manual. The annual membership fee is 25 US Dollars or
30 Dollars for overseas members. MUFON runs a bulletin board service,
contact the office for details.

MUFON is non-profit, international, scientific organization devoted to
studying and researching the UFO phenomenon. MUFON sponsors and conducts
worldwide conferences, seminars and symposiums. MUFON members believe that a
concentrated scientific study by dedicated investigators and researchers
will provide the ultimate answer to the UFO enigma. State Director oversees
the activities of Field Investigators through State Section Directors. An
International Co-ordinator and seven Continental Co-ordinators work with
Foreign Representatives in each country to investigate UFO activity.
MUFON is the "parent organization" for numerous, smaller UFO research
groups across the United States and around the world.
Since 1970 has sponsored an Annual International UFO Symposium where
scientists, engineers, university professors, and authors lecture on their
particular specialization to solving the UFO enigma. The copyrighted
symposium proceedings are published annually for worldwide distribution.
Back issues of symposium proceedings are available.
Anyone interested is invited to join MUFON by submitting a membership
application and dues for approval.

Other MUFON Branches:
New Zealand Director for MUFON,
  [e-mail] (Murray Bott)
  PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand  Phone: [phone]

11.32: Mutual UFO Network of North Carolina, Inc. (MUFON-NC)
------------------------------------------------------------
602 Battleground Road
Lincolnton, North Carolina 28092
George D. Fawcett (Staee Director)
704-735-5725
Founded  in February 1, 1990; non-profit corporation whose goal is to
investigate and research the UFO enigma. MUFON-NC accepts reports of
sightings, visitations, etc. and will investigate those cases with the most
merit.
MUFON-NC holds quarterly meetings in North Carolina on the first Sunday of
February, May, August and November on a rotating basis in different cities;
meetings generally run from lpm until 6pm.
To join: $10 self-addressed, stamped envelope with 45 cents postage to the
above address; you get forms for both MUFON and MUFON- NC.

Granville Angell (Treasurer)               Robert H. Hair
Route 2, Box 252D Vale,                    314 Wilson Street
North Carolina 28168                       Eden, North Carolina 27288
704-462-2303                               919-627-4184


11.33: National Investigations Committeee on UFOs (NICUFO)
---------------------------------------------------------
14617 Victory Blvd Suite 4
P.O. Box 5
Van Nuys, California 91411
Dr. Frank E. Stranges, PhD. (President)
818-989-5942
Publishes the UFO Journal : Inter-Space-Link-Confidential NL
Founded in July 1967
A non-profit organization whose aim is to conduct research into, and
provide education about, the fields of UFOs, Space, and Science phenomena.
Members are available to provide lectures throughout the world. Monthly
meetings, as well as two UFO seminars per year, are held at NICUFO
headquarters in Van Nuys, California.
One of the world's largest collections of UFO slides, books and tapes. For
more information materials write: I.E.C. Book Department, P.O. Box 73, VVan
Nuys, California 91408.
Anyone interested in becoming a State Director should contact NICUFO.
Annual membership fees are $25.00 ($30.00 foreign) and includes a
subscription to the UFO Journal magazine, which is a quarterly publication.
Also available is the Inter-Space-Link- Confidential-Newsletter for $60.00
per year.
Based upon their experience, members may serve in one of the following
positions: Consultant, State or Provincial Director, State Section
Director, Foreign Representative, Field Investigator, Research Specialist,
Amateur Radio Operator, Astronomer, Field Investigator Trainee, Translator,
UFO News Clipping Service, Contributing Subscriber or Associate Member
(under 18 years of age).
MUFON trains its Field Investigators and provides them with the "MUFON
Field Investigator's Manual".
Amateur Radio Networks are used to receive and disseminate UFO sighting
reports and current UFO information. The time and frequencies of these
broadcasts are published in the "MUFON UFO Journal."

11.34: The National Sighting Research Center (NSRC)
---------------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 76
Emerson, New Jersey 07630
Bob Sylvester (Co Director)
Publishes the National Sighting Yearbook since 1988.
A non-profit organization composed of 6 part-time research specialists with
expertise in microcomputer-based data base management systems (DBMS),
statistical analysis, micro telecommunications, and trend analysis. The
NSRC acts as an information- gathering organization which compiles massive
amounts of data and disseminates it in the form of computerized reports,
including information in statistical and graphical form.
The goals of NSRC are to provide the professional UFO investigator or
researcher with a computerized, highly graphical database summary of all
reported sightings of anomalous aerial phenomena within the United States
and a clearinghouse for UFO sighting report data; periodically release
other publications, in-depth reports requested by other researchers and
organizations.

11.35: Nevada Aerial Research Group (NARG)
------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 81407
Las Vegas, Nevada 8918G-1407
Val Valerian
Publishes the Leading Edge : NARG AMual Journal
A worldwide, New Age organization with researchers and investigators 12
countries and 37 states. The primary goals of NARG are to provide
information on developments in our civilization which affect all of this
planet, to investigate all processes that impede evolution, and promote an
increase in the awareness level of the mass human consciousness.
The NARG investigates, radionics, psycotronics, mind control, alien
interaction, gravitational and crystalline technologies, overt and covert
intelligence operations, systems above and below the surface of the planet,
conspiracies, advances in physics, planetary power structures, foreign
technology, brain machines, implant technology, human abductions and animal
mutilations.
Leading Edge is only available from Arcturus Book Service,
PO Box 831383, Stone Mountain, Georgia 30083-0023, 404-297-4624. Published
6 times a year.This is the source of the MATRIX materials.

11.36: North American Circle
-----------------------------
PO Box 61144, Durham, NC 27715-1144

11.37: North American Institute for Crop Circle Research (NAICCR)
------------------------------------------------------------------
NAICCR was formed in 1990 after requests for information about North
American crop circles had reached epidemic proportions.  UFOROM
associates, who had been regularly investigating reports and
discoveries of UGMs (Unusual Ground Markings), including traces very
similar to crop circles, responded to inquiries by formalising a sister
group devoted to research into UGMs.

NAICCR associates investigate UGMs rationally, and prepare reports on
their findings.  NAICCR distributes a list of known North American
UGMs, based on information provided to NAICCR by co-operative
researchers throughout the continent.  A comparable list of British UGMs
has never been available in this manner.  NAICCR also publishes an
annual report of North American UGM activity, with analyses and
commentary.

NAICCR will continue to function in the future at about the present
level of activity, though it would be preferred if UGM cases would
once again be studied as special cases of UFO cases, as was the case
before tthat category of UGMs was raised to a separate category because
of British research.  NAICCR may perhaps merge back with UFOROM, if this
is the case, since UFOROM had been investigating UGMs as a matter of
course.

NAICCR                              NAICCR
Box 1918                [or]        649 Silverstone Avenue
Winnipeg, Manitoba                  Winnipeg, Manitoba
Canada   R3C 3R2                    R3T 2V8, Canada.

11.38: Northamptonshire UFO Research Centre (NUFORC)
----------------------------------------------------
This is a local group covering the county of Northamptonshire within England.
Common name is NUFORC. Formed in 1986. Number of members about 20. Chief
officers are Stephen Gamble (Chairman); Susan Pollock (Secretary) and Elsie
Oakensen (Treasurer). Contact address : 30 Stonebridge Court, Lings,
Northampton, Northamptonshire, England.

11.39: NORTHERN UFO NETWORK (NUFON)
-----------------------------------
Formed in 1973, the Northern UFO Network or NUFON was a loose federation of
local UFO groups throughout northern England. At the peak about 20 groups
were members. A small newsletter called Northern UFO News was published by
the group. Although the federation of groups no longer exists, Northern UFO
News is still published by Jenny Randles.

11.40: Omega Communications
----------------------------
P.O. Box 2051 Cheshire, Connecticut 06410
John W. White, M.A.T. (President)
Sponsors public  events (seminars, lectures, symposiums, etc) to promote
discussion about the UFO experience. Since 1987, Omega Communications has
produced an annual symposium, "The UFO Experience" where numerous
researchers and contactees are invited to talk. These proceedings are
published in audio and video format available for sale. Audio and
videotapes of previous conferences are available. Audio tapes are $9.00
each while videotapes are $29.95 each . Each tape is approximately 90
minutes in length. Video tapes are available only in VHS format.

11.41: ParaNet (Paranormal Network) Information Service
-------------------------------------------------------
ParaNet Information Service
P.O. Box 172
Wheat Ridge, CO  80034-0172

Voice Phone - 303-431-8796
Data BBS Phone - 303-431-8797
Publication is The Continuum    :
Founded in 1986

History
ParaNet started on January 1, 1986 in a bulletin-board system called
"The Other Side" It was one of the first BBS that gathered together
various information for the pourpous of research on the paranormal.
Jim Speiser was the Director of ParaNet 1986-88 at the time and
wanted to bring together the three factions of paranormal debate
(the skeptics, the believers, and the undecided) for public
discussion of paranormal. He created ParaNet as neutral ground for
the exchange of information on the paranormal.In 1988 Speiser turned
over the directorship to Michael Corbin.

Current Status
ParaNet's basic goles are reflected in its motto:  "Answering Questions,
Questioning Answers". ParaNet offers investigator's raw material, in the
form of sighting reports, which comes from data supplied by the public.
The network concept provides the investigators and its users with immediate,
one-on-one contact, and instant access to a global communications medium.
ParNet also keeps it users informed major, fast-breaking stories involving
the paranormal. ParaNet can be accessed in six countries on three
continents.

The People of ParaNet
ParaNet provides access to experts through their electronic system. Its
research  branch is headed by Robert B. Klinn, a veteran investigator who
worked for the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek. ParaNet also provides a conference
on the UFO abduction experience hosted by Dr. David Jacobs, a UFO historian
and author. Many different groups and researchers of the paranormal use
Parenet for information exchange and discussion of ideas. Among some of them
are the Bay Area Skeptics, the South Shore Skeptics, Marge Christenson,
T. Scott Crain, Dan Drasin, Stan Gordon, Barry Greenwood, Budd Hopkins,
Linda Howe, Phil Imbrogno, Dr. David Jacobs, Dr. Donald Johnson, Philip
Klass,
Bruce Maccabee, Maj. James McGaha, Dr. Mark Rodeghier, Robert Schaeffer,
Tracy Torme, and Dr. David Webb, Don Ecker, Vicki Cooper and and many others.

The Future of ParaNet
In the future ParaNet plans to expan their network to even more cournties,
increasing public education and scientific-oriented  research and
investigation unequaled in  the field. Their focus will be directed at
bringing various credible existing organizations from around the world into
a better orgonized research effort. ParaNet will also turn its attention to
more investigative  reporting. Paranet plans to acomplish this unser their
new organization known as  MICAP  (Multi-national Investigations Cooperative
on  Aerial Phenomena). (see MICAP) MICAP will be a separate non-profit
research/educational vehicle with investigative ability.


Publications:
CONTINUUM is a publication put out quarterly by ParaNet It costs $18.00
per year.It is a very informative and diverse publication.

Internet Mailings:
To get the current postings from ParaNet send a mail message to:
[e-mail]
with the word "Subscribe" in the subject line.

Information about ParaNet and MICAP can be obtained by phoning 303-431-8796,
or by writing to them at P.O. Box 172, Wheat Ridge, CO  80034-0172.

To access ParaNet via computer and modem, call 303-431-8797 and you will be
guided through the registration process and be given choices of which level
of membership you wish to acquire.

ParaNet's files are available on floppy disks or hard copy. Their catalog
is available for  $10.00 and contains a full listing of all available
files, books, and videos. Contact Michael Corbin at:
ParaNet Information Service
P.O. Box 172
Wheat Ridge, CO  80034-0172

11.42: Pennsylvania Association for the Study of the Unexplained (PASU)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
6 Oakhill Avenue
Greensburg, Pennsylvania 15601
Stan Gordon (Director)
412-838-7768
PASU Data Exchange
Founded in 1981
A volunteer, non-profit scientific research unit conducts investigations of
strange or unusual occurrences, with emphasis on UFOs and UFO-related
activity. PASU members donate their time and equipment. PASU is a statewide
clearinghouse for reports of UFO sightings and is comprised of individuals
with training or experience in the fields of science, engineering,
technology or medicine who act as field investigators. Monthly meetings are
held to share information. PASU has on file thousands of cases from
Pennsylvania that include UFO sightings, creature reports, unusual animal
killings, unexplained photographs and other anomalies. PASU attempts to
send field investigators directly to the scene of an occurrence to gather
information and interview witnesses. The "PASU Data Exchange" newsletter
contains information regarding investigations conducted into unusual
incidents that have occurred in Penn.

11.43: PNET
------------
Based in Melbourne, Australia. Bulletin board system, echos some Paranet
material. Sysop : Brian Evans, contact Brian by Internet mail for
information:
[e-mail]

11.44: The Portland UFO Group (PUFOG)
-------------------------------------
P.O. Box 998 Wilsonville, OR 97070
Jennifer Brown - Jacobs (Director)
503-538-0836
PUFOG Newsletter Founded in 1989
500 Members
A non-profit UFO organization whose monthly seminars are open to the
general public; maintain no membership and are unaffiliated with any other
UFO organization. PUFOG is an information group that conducts seminars on
the 3rd Sunday of each month at Mt. Hood Community College, Gresham, OR.
These seminars present knowledgeable  speakers on UFOs and related
subjects. Those who attend their seminars pay an admission fee and receive
the PUFOG newsletter.

11.45: Roundtown UFO Society
-----------------------------
Roundtown UFO Society, PO Box 52, Circleville, Ohio 43113 Multi-national

11.46: Royal Priest Research
----------------------------
P.O. Box 10546
Sedona, Arizona 86336
Lyssa Royal
602-282-320S
Publication is: The Prism
Founded in 1975, an independent research group with no members. Lyssa Royal
mixes generally- accepted research techniques skills with less provable
methods, such as channeling. Thus far, their research has produced two
books, "The Prism of Lyra - An Exploration of Human Galactic Heritage" (130
pages) and "Visitors From Within" (171 pages).
Lyssa Royal organizes and conducts weekly sessions, private consultations,
and special events. She offers tapes of her numerous channeling sessions
which discuss various topics and  extraterrestrial beings both physical and
nonphysical. Each tape is 90 minutes and $12.00; complete set (9 tapes) is
$75.00.
"The Prism" is periodic newsletter which details news, list of recent
channeling tapes, books, etc.

11.47: The Search for EXtraterrestrial Intelligence
---------------------------------------------------
NASA HEADQUARTERS, WASHINGTON, D.C.
Office of Space Science and Applications
Michael Braukus
(Phone:  [phone])

Ames Research Center, Mountain View, Calif.
Michael Mewhinney
(Phone:  [phone])

Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
Mary Hardin
(Phone:  [phone])


11.48: Sirian Rainbow Lodge
---------------------------
P.O. Box 2108
St. Petersburg, Florida 33731
Liah GoldenHawk (Co Founder)
L. Baird (Bookkeeper)
813-822-8154
Pulbication is Solar Trek; founded in 1990.
Primarily an extraterrestrial outpost program, provides information from
the alien point of view. The Sirian Rainbow Lodge is the StarSystem Sirian
Outpost; interested in sharing all types of positive ET Alien knowledge.
ET & UFO Network where Contactees and others may share eexperiences,
contacts and opinions. Focuses on believing and possibilities, rather than
proving any theories; focuses mainly on occupants of UFOs and alien
knowledge.
The Lodge is led by the Bennu who is an alien of the Nordic type from
StarSystem Sirius. To raise money, the Lodge sells books and booklets by
the Bennu and "Solar Trek", the ET Alien Quarterly Journal.

11.49: SKYNET
--------------
257 Sycamore Glen
Pasadena, California 91105
Ann Druffel (Project Co Ordinator)
213-256-8655
Publication is Skynet Guides; Founded in1965; 50 - 100 members.
Established to serve as a tracking system for UFO reports in the Los
Angeles, California area. Its original purpose was to receive UFO reports
at the time that witnesses were viewing the objects, thus centering their
efforts on real-time viewing, photographing, monitoring, rather than
relying on after-the-fact analysis.
Upon joining, members agree to contact other SKYNET members whenever an
unusual sighting is  occurring for members to view, photograph and monitor
the object in real-time while not having to wait for an after-the-fact
presentation. This contacting of other SKYnet members that a sighting is
occurring is the only obligation of members. All calls from the public
receive an in-depth phone interview by an assigned SKYNET official and if
warranted, further field investigations are conducted.

11.50: SOCIE'TE' BELGE d'ETUDE des PHENOMENES SPATIAUX (SOBEPS)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Commonly called SOBEPS and the leading group in Belgium. Senior Officers :
President : Michel Bougard, Secretary : Lucien Clerebaut. Contact address
74 Avenue Paul Janson, B-1070, Bruxelles, Belgium.

11.51: Society for Scientific Exploration (SSE)
-----------------------------------------------
Office of the Secretary
P.O. Box 3818,
University Station
Charlottesville, Virginia 22903-0818
Laurence W. Fredrick (Secretary)
804-924-4905 : 804-924-3104
Publishes the Journal of Scientific Exploration and The Explorer .
Established in 1982. A tax-exempt group that investigates various
anomalies, including UFOs. Although its president Professor Peter Sturrock
of Stanford University, all contact with SSE should be made through
Laurence W. Fredrick. The goal of the SSE is to gain further understanding
of anomalous phenomena (including UFOs) and to share this knowledge with
the public. The Society considers anomalous phenomena to be incidents that
appear to contradict existing scientific knowledge; regarded by the
scientific community as being outside their established fields of inquiry.
They use the "Journal of Scientific Exploration" as an avenue to discuss
anomalous phenomena and present research results to the scientific and
scholarly community; its members are drawn from practitioners of science
who have acquired a first-hand knowledge and understanding of the
scientific process. The Society holds annual international meetings and
periodically scheduled regional meetings.
To promote co-operation, and to accommodate other levels of activity and
interest, the Society has created the categories of "Corresponding Member"
and "Associate".  "Associates" receive the "Journal of Scientific
Exploration" (two issues a year) and "The Explorer" (two issues a year). An
Associate may submit letters and other items for publication in the
Newsletter, may submit articles for publication in the Journal (each
article must be sponsored by a "Full Member"), and may attend Society
meetings by arrangement with a "Full Member". A person wishing to become an
"Associate" may do so by completing an Application Form and sending it with
a check for the annual dues to the Secretary.
"Full Membership" is reserved for those associated with major universities,
government entities or corporate research institutions who have an
established reputation in a traditional branch of science.
"Emeritus Membership" provides the privileges of Full Membership to
similarly qua]ified retirees at a lower annual rate.
"Student Membership" is limited to graduate students enrolled in academic
institutions.
"Corresponding Membership" is open to members of designated organizations.
A "Corresponding Member" receives, and is entitled to submit articles to
the "Journa] of Scientific Exploration".

11.52: The Societv for the Investigation of the Unexplained (SITU)
------------------------------------------------------------------
P.O. Box 265
Little Silver, New Jersey 07739
Nancy Warth (Membership Secretary)
201-842-5229
Publication is Pursuit
Founded in 1965 by Ivan T. Sanderson
A non-profit, tax-exempt organization; collects data on unexplained events,
promotes proper investigation of both individua] reports and general
subjects, and reports significant data to its members. SITU studies
unexplained events that orthodox science does not (or will not)
investigate.
SITU maintains reference files which include original reports, newspaper
and other clipping correspondence, audio tapes, films, photographs,
drawings, maps, etc. Copies of these items a available to members only.
Membership fees include the magazine "Pursuit", which is published
regularly.

11.53: System Ready
-------------------
7154 North University Drive Suite 116
Tarnarac, Florida 33321
Concentrates on building devices which can be used to detect UFOs. Their
book, "Detecting UFOs" details these devices.

11.54: Transcendental Communications A Division of LAMAT Research
-----------------------------------------------------------------
444 North Amelia #9C
San Dimas, California 91773
Don Grantharn (Director & Systems Operator)
714-599-6769 : 714-599-6270 (Operates at 300/1200/2400 BPS) : 714-599-5045
Transcendental Communications Newsletter
A scientific, investigative organization interested in UFOs and related
phenomena. Transcendental Communications is the largest UFO-related
computer network bulletin board system (BBS) on the west coast. The aim of
Transcendental Comrnunications is to get the word out to those interested
in current UFO information; a clearinghouse for books, documents,
publications, audio ar video tape interviews, seminars, documentaries and
UFO films and footage.
The main focus of Transcendental Communications is the operation of a BBS
through which interested parties can participate in on-line conversation.
read various reports, news items or articles, or leave messages for other
members.
Transcendental Communications publishes the "Transcendental Communications
Newsletter" which outlines topics that have been discussed on the BBS and
provides current UFO-related articles. FAX number available so that
interested parties can send them copies of reports, inforrnation, etc.
Basic Member Dues       $13.50
System Member   $39.50
Full Member $49.50
Newsletter for one year; list of publications, audio and video tapes; six
months BBS access

11.55: UFO Contact Center International (UFOCCI)
------------------------------------------------
3001 South 288th Street #304
Federal Way, Washington 98003
Aileen Bringle (Director)
206-946-2248
The Missing Link
June 1981
A non-profit organization dedicated to helping people who have had
traumatic, bizarre experiences or sightings of UFOs. A secondary goal of
UFOCCI is to promote public awareness of the UFO contactee phenomenon.
UFOCCI works with each contactee to help them understand their experiences
via hypnosis, group meetings and open seminars. Each year, over the Labor
Day weekend, UFOCCI conducts a conference called "Jorpah" (which means
'Cosmic Gathering') in which the past year's activities are summed up and
discussed. These gatherings are held at different places throughout the
country. The date and time of these conferences are announced in The
"Missing Link" newsletter.
UFOCCI holds monthly meetings the fourth Saturday of each month.

Associate Directors (by State and Canada):

Ak  Thomas Wilson 845 West 70th Anchorage, Alaska 99518  ph:907-522-3 172
Az  Helene CharboMeau P.O. Box 1369 Safford, AZ 85548-1369  ph:602-428-6437
    Ray Jordan 3831 North Paradise Road Flagstaff, AZ 86004  ph:602-774-6334
    Tom Dongo Box 2571 Sedona, AZ 86336  ph:602-282-562 1
Ca  Mark Andrews 811 Victoria Costa Mesa, CA 92627  ph:714-645-7046
    Michael & DoMa Farrner 123 Henshaw #402 Chico, CA 95926  ph:916-894-3327
    Ron Rodriquez 3948 Berrywood Santa Maria, CA 93455  ph:805-937-8050
    Allen Drake 13222 Louvre Street Pacoima, CA 91331  ph:818-896-3572
    Robert Shiepe 2865 Corning Street Los Angeles, CA 90034  ph:213-836-8362
Co  Jackie Blue P.O. Box 1015 Paonia, CO 81428  ph:303-527-4412
    AM Ulrich P.O. Box 117 Paonia, CO 81428  ph:303-527-3257
De  Cary Dickey P.O. Box 5535 Wilmington, Delaware 19808  ph:302-994-7509
Il  Carolyn Baum-Hawtree 1732 New Lenox Road Joliet, llinois 60433
ph:815-726-1756
Io  Jason Hooten 525 Avenue D Fort Madison, Iowa 52627  ph:319-372-5558
Ma  Robert Poutenis Route 9 Box 586 Pownal, Maine 04069
Md  Patrick O'Connell 12628 Black Saddle Lane Germantown, Maryland 20874
      ph:301-972-1980
Mo  Barbara Becker 6219 Enright Avenue St. Louis, Missouri 63130
    Claudia Sanderson-Jones 606 N.E. 114th Street Kansas City, Missouri 64155
      ph:816-734-9000
Ne  Kristy Buckles 3701 NW Conifer Court Lincoln 68521 ph:402-489-3 162
Nv  Valdemar Valerian P.O. Box 81407 Las Vegas, NV 89180-1407
ph:702-878-4380
Nj  Linda Dudar 20 Jackson Avenue Washington 07882  ph:201-689-7144
    Maryellen Kelly P.O. Box 1874 Champaign 61820 ph:217-359-9343
    Katie Sandberg Route 4 Box 1065-42 West Plains 65775  ph:417-256-0945
Nm  Mary Ellen Masters 504 Kiva Avenue Aztec 87410  ph:505-334-9841
    Cliff Stone 1421 East Tilden Roswell 88201 505-625-0920
Pennsylvania:
    Terri Shupenko 731 East 10th Street Erie 16503
    Dennis Viglo 326 College Street Youngsville 16371 814-563-4322
Tennessee:
    Herrnan L. Langley P.O. Box 422 Smyrna 37167 615-459-0165
    Brent Raynes 326 Haggard Street Waynesboro 38485 615-722-5976
Tx  Anne Bower 815 Peach Spring Houston 77088 713-931-0930
    Harv Howard P.O. Box 904 Manchaca 78652 5 12-282-203 1
    Judy Stryker 3409 Ruth Road Fort Worth 76118
    Sunshine Williams P.O. Box 162485 Austin 78716
    Donna Brown P.O. Box 337 Vidor 77670-0337 409-769-5828
    Goldie King P.O. Box 4455 Pasadena 77501 713-475-2785
    Donna Tietze P.O. Box 260 Friendswood 77546-0260 713-482-8641
Ut  Kaye Studstrup 2114 East 6805 South Salt Lake City 84121
Wa  Lozanna Elwood 3001 South 288th #304 Federal Way, 98003 ph:206-946-2248
    Jarnes C. Van Avery 6226 110th Avenue N.E. Kirkland 98033
ph:206-889-2026
Wisconsin:
    Linda Houston N7576 Timber Drive, Rib Lake 54470  ph:801 -263-2551
    Dr. Robert & Felicia Moore P.O. Box 825 Marshfield 54449 715-387-4639
Wy  Sheri Gould 705 South Burritt, Buffalo 82834 307-684-2755
Canada:
    Shirle Klein Carsh 6973 -129th Street Surrey, B.C. V3W 9A9 604-597-5822
??  Bill Hamilton III 249 North Brand Blvd Suite 651 Glendale 91203
Ph:818-547-6935
    Heidi Duval & Henrietta Raines P.O. Box 12 Crested Butte 81224

11.56: UFO Fllter Center
------------------------
618 Davis Drive
Mount Vernon, Indiana 47620
Neil Gilchrist P.O. Box 764 Nelson, B.C. VlL 5R4 604-825-9292
Francis L. Ridge (Director) :
812-838-3120 / 812-838-9843
Publication is: UFO Intelligence Summary and was founded in 1971
A one-man effort which investigates UFO activity, mainly in the Indiana
area. The goals of this group are to conduct a systematic computer study of
UFO data from a six-state region: Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Ohio,
Kentucky, and Tennessee; this study covers sightings beginning before 1947
to the present.

11.57: UFO Information Retrieval Center (UFOIRC)
------------------------------------------------
3131 West Cochise Drive #158
Phoenix, Arizona 85051-9501
Thomas M. Olsen (President)
602-997-1523 : 602-870-3178
Publication is: Reference for Outstanding UFO Sighting Reports
Founded in: 1966
A non-membership organization which collects, analyzes, publishes and
disseminates information about UFOs. UFOIRC also compiles statistics,
conducts research programs, sponsors photo exhibits, maintains a 200-volume
Library, and provides special educational services geared to children and
students.
UFOIRC publishes books, symposium proceedings, reprints of magazine
articles, and a bibliography of currently available information on the UFO
phenomenon.

11.58: UFO Investigators League
--------------------------------
Box 753 New Brunswick,
New Jersey 08903
Timothy Green Beckley
Publishes: UFO Spotters Newsletter
Started in 1990
A new organization under the auspices of Timothy Green Beckley who is
striving to expand his international network of investigators who wish to
investigate UFO cases in their areas.
Members receive membership card. investigators certificate, field manual,
and a subscription to the "UFO Spotters Newsletter". Membership is $20.00
per year.

11.59: THE UFO, PARANORMAL AND CONSPIRACY BBS
---------------------------------------------
Internet Contact: [e-mail] (Elite Enterprises)
           Modem: 312/604-8161  (24 HOURS)

11.60: UFO REPORTING AND INFORMATION SERVICE (UFORIS)
----------------------------------------------
Information Director : Dale Goudie. Contact address : P.O. Box 832, Mercer
Island, WA, 98040, USA. see also Computer UFO Network. Phone (voice)
[phone]

11.61: UFO Study Group of Greater St. Louis
------------------------------------
P.O. Box 31544 St. Louis, Missouri 63131
John Schroeder (President)
Helen Hanke (Secretary)
314-352-3058
Publishes the The UFO Enigma.
A non-profit organization formed in 1968 to investigate UFOs and to collect
and disseminate information germane to the UFO phenomena. They hold
meetings at the Farm and Home building, 110 West Lockwood (at Gore),
Webster Groves, Missouri at 2:00 p.m. on the second Sunday of the months
September through May.
This group operates in close cooperation with MUFON, CUFOS, and with
numerous organizations around the world in order to coordinate UFO research
and information.

11.62: Ufology Research of Manitoba (UFOROM)
--------------------------------------------
UFOROM is a private, non-profit and volunteer organisation which is
involved in rational discourse, investigation and research on UFOs and
related phenomena. It was formed in 1975.  All types of UFO-related
phenomena have been studied by UFOROM, including traces, crash-retrievals,
abductions and cattle mutilations.  In addition, some UFOROM associates
also study fortean and psychic phenomena.  UFOROM publishes an annual
survey of UFO activity in Canada, comparable to the Ferrughelli reports
on American cases.  Case data is provided by co-operative Canadian
researchers across Canada.

UFOROM is not open to general public membership.  However, independent
investigators and researchers throughout North America and particularly
in Canada are associated with UFOROM by way of their contributions of
case information and data from their own areas.  Such contributions are
welcomed and readily acknowledged by UFOROM.

Although UFOROM does not publish a journal or newsletter for general
distribution, associates frequently exchange information on an informal
basis.  This information is made available through articles and reports
published in UFO magazines or books, written or edited by UFOROM
associates.

UFOROM is associated with an irregular ufozine titled the SWAMP GAS
JOURNAL. [See UFO Publications section]  It is available in hard copy
through zine exchange or for a "cost" of one International Postal Reply
Coupon per issue.  As an experiment, the most recent issue also has
been made available in electronic format via INTERNET by posting a
request to: [e-mail]

UFOROM associates are involved with the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
Studies (CUFOS), the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) and various other
organisations.  UFOROM functions independently, but operates with an
understanding of complete co-operation and information exchange with
interested and serious researchers in their specialised areas of
interest.

UFOROM is devoted to the rational and objective study of UFOs and
related phenomena, as well as other controversial phenomena such as
crop circles.  All views on these phenomena, including both proponent
and contrary standpoints, are considered.  In this regard, UFOROM
associates tend to engage in dialogue with both "believers" and
"debunkers".  It is hoped that such attempts to "bridge the gap"
between the two sides of the debate will encourage more constructive
discourse.

Correspondence for UFOROM can be snailmailed to:

                              UFOROM
                             Box 1918
                         Winnipeg, Manitoba
                           Canada  R3C 3R2

11.63: United Aerial Phenomena Agency (UAPA)
-------------------------------------
P.O. Box 347032
Cleveland, Ohio 44134-7032
Allan J. Manak (Chairman)
Rick R. Hilberg (Vice Chairman)
Founded 1966
A non-profit organization dedicated to the investigation and study of UFOs
and related subjects. Its two publications are "Flying Saucer Digest"
(quarterly) and "Weirdology" (bi- monthly). UAPA sells a wide variety of
books, maps, back issues, rare items, etc. A catalog is available for
$1.00.

11.64: Universal Articulate Interdimensional Understanding of Science
--------------------------------------------------------------
UNARIUS Academy of Sciences
145 South Magnolia Avenue
El Cajon, California 92020-4522
Dr. Ernest L. Norman (Co Founder)
Ruth E. Norman (Co Founder)
Charles Spaegel (Vice President)
619-447-4170
Publishes the UNARIUS Light Magazine since1954.
A non-profit, New Age organization which has pioneered the teaching of Past
Life Therapy since 1954. This teaching is given to the student through a
curriculum that attunes the truth seeker to the high frequency energy
maintained by the authors, who are Advanced Spiritual Beings living on the
Inner Planes. UNARIUS receives most of its information and instructions
through channeling with the Higher Beings (Space Brothers). UNARIUS writes,
publishes, and distributes a complete course of study describing the New
Sciences of Life. This course material is covered over 100-plus texts of
the UNARIUS Academy of Sciences; augmented by over 100 video programs. The
course material covers missing piece's of man's prehistory, the enigma
surrounding the dilemma of unresolved problems in science, politics and
religion, and the future for mankind in the 21st century.
Class sessions are held at the UNARIUS Center on Wednesdays & Sundays at
7:00 p.m.; class fee is S10.00. Some courses are also available on TV
stations throughout California. All of the materials are directly related
to the UNARIUS goal of achieving Higher Awareness.
One of this group's main tenets is that there are superior extraterrestrial
forces which control the Earth's destiny and which know the fate of
mankind. With the teachings provided by UNARIUS, they feel that each person
can become cosmically attuned to higher spiritual forces and can become
aware of Reality and what is in store for humans. UNARIUS teaches that the
Interplanetary Confederation, a coalition of 33 existing planets, is
building 33 spacecraft that will form a giant city and will descend to
Earth in the year 2001. This "building" or "city" will descend on land
purchased for this purpose in the southern California area and will be a
gathering spot for people to come and learn about Cosmic Awareness.
In addition to students, interested parties can join UNARIUS for $50.00 per
year.

11.65: Victorian U.F.O. Research Society Inc. (VUFORS)
-------------------------------------------------------
AVUFORS is the largest UFO society in the Southern hemishpere and has
been in existence since the 1950s. (membership approx. 400)
Regular discussion nights are held and the Society publishes a
quarterly magazine called The Australian U.F.O. Bulletin which
details UFO related information from Australia and abroad.

Membership:
        Overseas (non Australian) $US20
        (Personal cheques cannot be accepted unless an additional
        $US5 is included to cover bank charges - We request you remit
        bank cheques or International Postal Orders)

        Membership entitles you to receive a copy of "The Australian
        UFO Bulletin", our quarterly magazine to members. The
        bulletin contains information from within Australia and
        overseas.

        Total number of members is currently around 400.

History:
        The "Australian Flying Saucer Research Society (Victorian
Branch)" was formed on the 17th of February, 1957 as a branch of the
"Australian Flying Saucer Research Society" and later that year was
reorganised as the "Victorian Flying Saucer Research Society" with
Mr. Peter E. Norris L.L.B. as President. In 1968 the name was again
altered - this time to the "Victorian U.F.O. Research Society".
The current executive has been in place since 1978.
The Society has held a dispassionate attitude on U.F.O.s, claiming
it is a scientific problem deserving closer attention.
Membership of this Society - which maintains the largest membership
of any U.F.O. organisation in the Southern Hemisphere - is open to
all who are genuinely interested in the subject.

Significant cases studied:
        - The Frederick Valentich disappearance (1978).  Frederick
Valentich was a twenty year old member of the Royal Australian Air
Force who disappeared on a solo private flight across Bass Strait
after radioing that an object was hovering on top of his Cessna 182.

        - The Knowles Family Encounter.  The case of a family on a
car trip across the Nullarbor Plain in South Australia who were
buzzed by a UFO that at one stage lifted the Knowles car into the
air only to drop it to the road seconds later.

Postal Address:             Internet contact:
        P.O. Box 43                    email: [e-mail]
        Moorabbin                      phone: [phone]
        Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3189       fax  : [phone]


=== Disclaimer
--------------
Disclaimer: Please Note that I don't claim that any of this research strictly
as my own. It comes from many books, articles, electronic postings and
people. I have tried to always include where the source of the information
at the bottom of the sections when I could.

=== FAQ Requests
----------------
If you wish to request the current copy of this FAQ, Please include in
your email message the maximum number of lines per message systems mail
program can handle so I won't crash your mailbox.  Also remember this is
a big FAQ, make sure you have the disk space. Just so you know I don't
plan on doing any major work on this FAQ till December, I need to catch
up on other work. Send Request for FAQ's ONLY to:

[e-mail]

=== FAQ Suggestions & Corrections
---------------------------------
If you have any suggestions or would like to add something to the FAQ,
PLEASE DO NOT RESEND ME A COMPLETE COPY OF THE FAQ WITH YOUR COMENTS MIXED
IN. I  already have the latest version. So please just slectively edit the
approprate portions of the FAQ into your message, and include the section
numbers. Also please send me any corrections you may have for the FAQ. If
you or your orgionization is mentioned in the above FAQ and you feel I have
misrepresented you please let me know so I can correct the problem.
Send all corrections & suggestions to:

                            Bitnet: Fsdlk@alaska
( FAQ Part 3 of 3)        Internet: [e-mail]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~  ...........  .......          .           .       .            ~
~  .            .      .        Nasha tai no kasei!         .   . ~
~  ...          .......           .            .                  ~
~  .            .               Prosperity and Long Life, To You. ~
~  .... xisting . hantom              .             .             ~
~                             .                            .      ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!decwrl!rtech!ingres!kevinq
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: Apparent EM Interference by UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
References: <stone.720282282@cwis> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: usa
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:42:24 GMT
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James Zuchelli) writes:
[ deleted ]
>
>I think that you only need the right combination of power, and frequency
>to do wierd things to electrical systems.
>

Keep this in mind...  and let's drop the 5th grade 'biiiiig magnet' silliness.
RF energy is far and away the most likely culprit.  Keep in mind it has
downed several military choppers (induced noise on fly-by-wire command and
control systems), and can cause all sorts of ... um, unanticipated side
effects.


kbq

--
Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12522 alt.alien.visitors:10800
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 92 18:03:26 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: Now this is the story of Lone Pine not the Trail of
The Lonesome Pine.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12523 alt.alien.visitors:10801 alt.religion.kibology:4478
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 92 18:08:07 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Littlefoot People: How about that Bigfoot. He is really a
lady's man.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12524 alt.alien.visitors:10802
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!lll-winken!snow.geology.wisc.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!ames!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: California Pyramids? (was: UFOs and Newage)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:24:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 32

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Subject: The Pyramid At Lone Pine.
>  I once was told where there were two pyramids in Calif. One of them was at
>Lone Pine and the other was on the North Fork of the American River at
>Snakehead Point east of Sacramento, Calif.
>  The one that is at Lone Pine is off the road at the town of Lone Pine,
>Calif. which is between Mojave and Reno on Highway 395.

Dear John,

I stopped off at Lone Pine last summer, while on my way to Death Valley.
They have a visitor's center there; the town is the best place to reach
Mt. Whitney, the tallest peak in the lower 48 states. It's a tiny
little town, yet I sure as hell didn't notice any pyramid there. I'm
surprised that they don't mention something about it in the visitor's center.

I watched your TV show "Science Faction" this past Tuesday. Folks, guess
what John was talking about? Surprise: the Great Pyramids of China!



--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 03:53:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 56


    [e-mail] (Kevin J. Cherkauer) writes:
    I have a book called _The Bermuda Triangle Mystery: Solved_,
    but unfortunately I do not remember the author offhand...

... Lawrence David Kusche was the author (Harper and Row, NY, 1975 --
one year after Berlitz's book); "Nova" did a show using his book as a
basis, which I've seen out on video.

    One discrepancy that shows up over and over is the claims in
    the legend of how ships and planes disappeared in clear
    weather.

...quite.  Mr. Berlitz does on occasion take liberties (my opinion is
that not everything he writes is false, but everything he writes must
be checked.)

    As for the flight of five Navy Avenger torpedo bombers (Flight
    19, I think), it is clear from the transcripts of the radio
    conversations that the planes experienced a few moments of
    disorientation...

... my recollection is very similiar to yours: Kusche's thesis is that
the flight leader had the disorientation, convinced himself that his
compass was wrong, and turned north (followed by the other planes),
rather than west, believing the islands he could see were the Florida
Keys, rather than the little islands off the east coast of Florida --
where he actually was (that in itself is pretty odd, though.)  Kusche
believes that the planes all ditched together at sunset, in choppy
weather (since they would have been far to the north, and have ditched
at a time long after Berlitz marked them "gone", the weather could be
calm when Berlitz says the planes were lost, but have deteriorated by
sunset, when Kusche says they were) and they all drowned; and that the
PBY searchplane that disappeared may have been destroyed by an in-air
explosion of its gasoline (something that was not common, but known to
happen.)  (I can't remember the radio-traffic stuff, I'll have to go
back and check.)

    I remember hearing in recent years that the five planes have
    now even been found on the ocean bottom. Anyone know any more
    about this?

... I heard about this too, that a diving group found a (single)
plane, and thought it might have been part of "flight 19".  However,
since the aircraft numbers were still readable on the found plane, and
we haven't heard anything since, I suspect that it was not a flight-19
plane.

    See what panic can do to your reasoning abilities?

... yeah, except one typically does not panic for several hours; a
curious thing about the flight is that given the failure to find
anything after flying north for a while, that the fight did *not* turn
west.

Charles
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12526 alt.alien.visitors:10804
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 92 21:37:06 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Pyramid Watchers: I just got through seeing a TV show called
This Old Pyramid by Nova. I highly recommend it. It shows how a person
built a small pyramid in the same way they believe the Great Pyramid
of Egypt was built.
John Winston
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ET Contact - The Mean
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:04:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, ON - 519-633-7253
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)
Lines: 10

PC|A thought just occured. Why is it that science fiction writers/fans are neve
  |subjects of encounters?
  `--------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the EBEs wanted to be our 'friends' don't you think they would have
done it by now. It's obvious they are up to something big!

---
 . SLMR 2.1a . I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: alien info. wanted
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:09:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, ON - 519-633-7253
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)
Lines: 138

RA|I had read a posted letter describing the different types of aliens
  |that had been visiting the Earth. I can't remember who posted the
  |message but I was wondering if someone had that information if they
  |could post it. As well mention the origin of the information.
  `--------------------------------------------------------------------

  I think this is the file you are looking for. I found it on a board
  in London, Ontario called InfoNet.

    VARIETIES OF ALIEN BEINGS KNOWN TO "INTERACT" WITH HUMANS
      AND SUPPOSEDLY INVOLVED IN INFLUENCING HUMAN AFFAIRS.
                         By David House

                    ALIEN TYPE 1:  THE GREYS:

Of  this  type there are several sub-types. All  tend  to  appear
greyish in color and for this reason are referred to as "greys."

GREY  TYPE A:  This is the type most commonly referred to as  the
greys.  Also known as Zeta Reticuli from the Zeta Reticulan  star
system  (the  Bernard  star) neighboring the  Orion  area.   They
function  in a mode that is apparently military in nature with  a
rigidly   defined  social  structure  that  holds   science   and
"conquering  worlds" to be the prime movers.  They  are  normally
about 4.5 ft. tall with large heads and black "wrap around" eyes.
They  have  limited facial features, slit mouth and  no  nose  to
speak  of.   They have evolved beyond the need  for  reproductive
systems  or  digestive systems and reproduce by  cloning.   Their
genetics are partly based on insectoidal genetics. Their  science
deals  largely  with the study of other life  forms  and  genetic
engineering.   They  have supposedly had a part to  play  in  the
alteration  of human genetics over thousands of years.  It  seems
that  they may be trying to cross breed with humans in  order  to
create  a "mixture race" that would be better than either.  (I've
read that they are a dying species, that have cloned so much that
now,  with  each successive cloning, the  species  grows  weaker.
They are trying to infuse new life into their species by creating
the mixed breed.)

There  seem  to  be two main social classes.   One  is  the  more
hawkish and is more abrupt, crude and blunt.  The more  dove-like
ones  are  more  refined  and capable  of  a  more  business-like
behavior  towards  humans, and prefer to  use  more  "diplomatic"
behavior to gain control over human's.  This type of Grey is what
I  believe is being referred to as the "Orange" class  of  Greys.
They  seem to be emotionless (by human standards)  and  therefore
are  seen as cruel in their treatment of human beings.  They  are
able to take human lives without any regard for that individual.

They apparently can use certain substances of the human body  for
their  sustenance  and  therefore appear  to  be  carnivorous  in
regards  to  humans.  (I also read that they extract  fluid  from
some  part of the human brain during intense  emotional  response
[fear] and are able to use it like a recreational drug.)

It is my understanding that these greys are actually servants  to
a master race of reptilian-type aliens and are trying to  prepare
the  earth  for their arrival by gaining control over  the  earth
through  many means.  They tend to enjoy the feeling  of  freedom
they have on earth, away from their masters and would desire  the
help  of  humans in confrontations  with  the  reptilians...which
appears  to  be a consideration for the near future  (mid  90's.)
These greys have their best known bases in New Mexico and  Nevada
but are also known to have bases in many countries of the world.
GREY  TYPE B:  Tall Greys from Orion.  Usually about 7 to  8  ft.
tall (reports often exaggerate their height as being 9 to 12 ft.)
with  facial  feature somewhat similar to grey type  A  with  the
exception  of the large nose found on type B greys.  These  greys
also have technologies that allow them to perform certain actions
that appear "miraculous."

These  greys  are less viscous towards humans than type  A  greys
(but are still considered "hostile".) They tend to influence more
through  political controls and negotiated agreements with  those
in  power.  Their main bases seem to be in the Aleutian  Islands.
These are the type seen not long ago in Eastern Russia.

GREY TYPE C:  These are the shortest of the greys and tend to  be
about  3.5 ft. tall.  Their facial features are very  similar  to
the  Zeta Reticuli greys and are of the same "root race.".   They
are just as hostile to humans as the Zetas.  They are from a star
system near the shoulder of Orion called Bellatrax.

                 ALIEN TYPE 2: THE REPTILIANS:

A  genetics akin to reptiles, these are highly advanced  entities
but  viewed  as  being  of  a  negative,  hostile  or   dangerous
disposition since they regard humans as a totally inferior  race.
They  would perceive us much the way we would perceive a herd  of
cattle.   They  are carnivorous in regard to  humans.   There  is
supposedly  a  "driven"  planetoid or asteroid  inhabited  by  30
million of these lizard-folk that is to enter our solar system in
the mid 90's if the present schedule is kept.

They  consider  earth to be their own ancient outpost  and  would
expect  to have complete control of the entire planet upon  their
return.   Their  own  planet is  becoming  unable  to  adequately
support life and they need somewhere else to live.  These are the
aliens who are served by the type A greys.

                 ALIEN TYPE 3: HUMAN TYPE ALIENS

HUMAN  TYPE A: These are of a genetic base similar to  humans  of
earth.   They appear of "normal" height (5-6ft.?) and tend to  be
fair-skinned with blonde hair.  These entities have been abducted
by  the  greys or are the offspring of abductees  and  have  been
trained  by  the greys as servants.  These entities  are  totally
subservient to the greys.

HUMAN  TYPE  B:  These are aliens of similar  genetics  to  earth
humans  and also, it seems, of the humans that serve  the  greys.
These  are  from the Pleiades and are also of the  blonde,  fair-
skinned  appearance.  This type is of a genuine  highly  evolved,
spiritual,  benevolent variety and have a kinship  toward  humans
and  are the only aliens to be truly trusted by earth  humans  at
this  time. They had at one time offered to be of  assistance  to
earth  leaders in dealing with the alien situation here but  were
rebuffed and so have taken a kind of "hands off" approach for the
time  being.  These aliens are supposedly the forefather race  of
humankind.   These are apparently not on earth much at this  time
due to serious problems in the area of their home.

HUMAN  TYPE  C:  Very  little is known  about  these.   They  are
supposedly another of the highly evolved, spiritual type of great
benevolence to earth humans.  I understand that their  appearance
is  similar to other human-type aliens. They are from Sirius  and
don't  appear to be much involved with earth happenings  at  this
time  other than being concerned about the Grey  scenario.   They
could desire to be of help to humans.

There  are  other known human type aliens of  this  "more  highly
spiritually  evolved"  nature that are apparently  aware  of  the
situation  on  earth  and considering  some  possible  course  of
action.  These are from Arcturus and Vega.

---
 . SLMR 2.1a . On a clear disk you can seek forever

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:16:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, ON - 519-633-7253
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)
Lines: 77

4U|It appears that he was watching a latenight news channel (he forgets which o
  |He heard something about a Russian spacecraft (to Mars??) getting blown away
  |by a UFO (captured on film, seconds before the craft lost power).  Again, ca
  |anyone add anything to this??
  |Thanks in advance.
  |--BUD
  `-------------------------------------------------------------------------

   I found the following file on a board in London, Ontario called
   InfoNet. I'm sure it mentions that incident.

                     The Phobos II Incident
                  Hostile Aliens Based on Mars

On  July  12,  1988  the USSR  launched  Phobos  II  an  unmanned
satellite  to  Mars. It arrived in January 1989  and  entered  an
orbit   around  Mars  as  the  first  phase  towards  it's   real
destination, a small Martian moon called Phobos. The mission  was
flawless  until the craft aligned itself with the moon. On  March
28,  1989  an  elliptical object was detect  moving  towards  the
satellite seconds before it failed. All indications were that the
elliptical  object had attacked the satellite which was now  dead
and left spinning out of control.

On  March 28, 1989 Tass, the official Soviet news agency  stated:
"Phobos  II failed to communicate with Earth as  scheduled  after
completing  and  operation  yesterday  around  the  Martian  moon
Phobos.  Scientists  at  mission  control  have  been  unable  to
establish stable radio contact."

But  the  next  day a top official of  the  Soviet  Space  Agency
(Glavkosmos)  said:  "Phobos  II is 99% lost for  good."   It  is
important  to note that he stated the entire satellite  was  gone
and not just contact with it.

On   March   31,  1989  Headlines  dispatched   by   the   Moscow
correspondents of the European News Agency (EFE) stated:  "Phobos
2 Captured Strange Photos of Mars Before Losing Contact With It's
Base.  Vremya revealed yesterday that the space probe Phobos  II,
which was orbiting above Mars when Soviet scientists lost contact
with it on Monday, had photographed an UNIDENTIFIED OBJECT on the
Martian  surface  seconds  before  losing  contact."   Scientists
described the UNIDENTIFIED OBJECT as a thin ellipse 20 KILOMETERS
LONG!  It  was  further stated that the photos could  not  be  an
illusion because it was captured by 2 different color cameras  as
well as cameras taking infrared shots.

One  controller at the Kaliningrad control center concluded  that
the  probe  was now spinning out of control. It would  seem  that
something struck or shot the Phobos II Probe.

In  the  October  19,  1989  issue  of  Nature  Magazine,  Soviet
scientists concluded that the craft could be spinning because  it
was impacted.

It has long been rumored that Mars and it's moon Phobos are alien
colonies.   The   surface  of  Mars  is  covered   with   strange
shapes/buildings  that  do not appear to be natural such  as  the
pyramids,  square  buildings, runways, etc.  etc.  One  structure
shows the face of a man with a helmet looking into space. It  can
be  seen at the National Space Science Data Center, Viking  photo
with catalog number 76-A-593/17384 Titled "HEAD" . Another  photo
is  070-A-13.  There are now eleven Viking  photographs  of  this
obviously  intelligently constructed monument on the  surface  of
Mars.  The  "HEAD"  and other artificial  features  such  as  the
pyramids  an electrical engineer and imaging  specialist  Vincent
DiPietro and a Lockheed computer scientist combined the  original
photographs  and combined them to get a more  accurate  composite
images. The clearer images show that the features on the  surface
of Mars had been artificially sculpted...WE ARE NOT ALONE!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This file is from the InfoNet UFO Library.
[phone]/6196/1453 (Hit Control-C enter HELP at $ prompt)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . My reality check just bounced.

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Human yet not human, stuc
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:22:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, ON - 519-633-7253
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)
Lines: 121

  |        They offten talk about going home, and home is space to them
  |not earth? Could you assist please in solving this riddle.?
  `--------------------------------------------------------------------

  I found the following file on a BBS in London called InfoNet.
  It might shed some light on your question...

                         The Light Being

Dr.  Bruce  Goldberg specializes in  regressing  people,  through
hypnosis  to past lives in an effort to better  understand  their
present  life  and  problems.  Every once  in  a  while  he  will
encounter alien beings that he calls "light people". Below is  an
excerpt  from his book "Past Lives, Future Lives". Bob,  the  man
regressed  was complaining of recurring nightmares that left  him
feeling drained in the morning. The doctor's questions are  shown
in all capitals.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AT THIS TIME?
What is your vibrational rate?

WHERE ARE YOU NOW?
I, I can't see your essence. What is your vibrational rate?

IT  IS YOUR FUNCTION TO REPORT YOUR PROGRESS TO ME AT THIS  TIME.
YOUR  VIBRATIONAL RATE WILL BE ALTERED DOWNWARD IF YOU DON'T  CO-
OPERATE.
I have just been in the evaluation chamber. They won't tell me my exact
progress.

WHO ARE THEY? (Silence.)
WHO ARE THEY?
The  Planners.  Aren't  you one of the Planners?  No,  I'm  being
directed not to tell you anything.

WHAT IS YOUR NAME?
I, I have no name. I am merely a source with a vibrational rate.

WHAT IS YOUR VIBRATIONAL RATE? (Silence.)
WHAT IS YOUR VIBRATIONAL RATE?
I  am not permitted to release that information. They  won't  let me.  I
know  that you're not a Planner. Why  can't  I  see  your essence?

I AM NOT A PLANNER BUT I DO MONITOR YOUR PROGRESS. MY VIBRATIONAL
RATE  IS WELL BEYOND YOURS SO THAT YOU CANNOT DETECT MY  ESSENCE. NOW
TELL ME ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCES ON THE PLANET.
I  don't  want to go back. The physical form is not  pleasant.  I don't
like it.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AROUND YOU AT THIS MOMENT?
I  am in a chamber of some sort. I have never been in this  place
before. My source is yellow. There are other sources of different colors
present. We are in formation. The Planners are giving  us orders.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE ROOM THAT YOU ARE IN?
The  chamber is white. There are no distinct borders.  Everything is
hazy.  There is much movement of different  sources.  We  are being
judged.

WHO IS JUDGING YOU?
The  Planners. They are evaluating our trials with  the  physical form
on the planet. I know I've done poorly.

WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?
It's  awkward  being in those things. Why do they want us  to  be
physical? Can you help me?

YOU  KNOW  I  CAN'T.  I'M NOT PERMITTED  TO  INTERFERE  WITH  THE
PLANNERS.  MY PURPOSE IS STRICTLY TO GATHER INFORMATION. WHAT  IS
HAPPENING NOW?
The  Planners  have not allowed us to leave our places.  I  can't move.
One of the sources is being reduced for his actions on  the planet.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN REDUCED?
The vibrational rate is being lowered. It will mean more time  in the
physical form.

WHERE ARE YOU FROM?
We  are not from this galaxy. I am not permitted to give you  any more
details about our planet.

WHY DID YOU COME TO THIS PLANET?
To  explore.  The  Master  Planners want  us  to  experience  the
physical  form. It is our mission. We are supposed to help  those forms
on the planet. I just want to go home but they  won't  let me.

HAS ANY OTHER SOURCE RETURNED HOME?
No. We will stay here until the mission is complete.

WHY HAVE YOU DISTURBED THE ENTITY KNOWN AS BOB WITH THESE  SCENES
DURING HIS REST PERIOD?
It was time he knew.

WHY NOW?
Before  his vibrational rate was too low. It is now  high  enough for
him to receive this data.

WHY NOT LET HIM EXPERIENCE THIS DATA DURING HIS WAKING STATE?
I  can't  answer that. Only the Planners know that. I  am  not  a
Planner.

HOW DID YOU DO ON YOUR LAST EVALUATION?
I failed some of the tests. I am going to have to spend more time in the
physical form.

ARE YOU BEING DISCIPLINED?
Spending more time in the physical form is always a punishment. I must
not fail again.

WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU CONTINUE TO FAIL?
I  will  not  be  able to leave  the  physical  form.  Can't  you
communicate with them and explain?

I  CANNOT  COMMUNICATE  WITH A PLANNER.
WHAT IS  IT  LIKE  IN  A PHYSICAL FORM? (Silence.)
WHAT IS IT LIKE IN A PHYSICAL FORM?
They  won't allow me to communicate. Only the Planners  can  know that.
You must accept that.
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.

Xref: icaen alt.postmodern:4113 alt.religion.kibology:4485 alt.alien.visitors:10809
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: GRAVITY-NEUTRALIZING INVENTION
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.postmodern,alt.sex,misc.test,alt.religion.scientology,alt.alien.visitors,alt.cascade
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 07:08:37 GMT
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>                         Gravity-NEUTRALIZING Spacecraft
>                         or ZERO/REDUCED-Gravity Chamber
>...
>
>               VERY CLOSE CONTACT must be made as the disc extensions
>          slide past the wall extensions in order to conduct the
>          "Kinemassic" Energy (term coined by the Inventor) from the
>          discs to the walls in an ALTERNATING CIRCULATION yap yap yap
>          yap yap yap yap yap koo-koo yap yap yap yap yap yap yap yap
>          yap yap, yap yap yap yap ding dong yap yap yap?  Yap yap yap
>          yap yap yap yap... yap yap yap yap bork bork bork!

Oh NO!  Someone's fired the DEEDLEE RAY at Mr. McElwaine!  He's growing
DEEDLEE FRINGE all over!  Quick, Henry, the scissors!  Before he's
chintzed to death!

>                                        Robert E. McElwaine
>                                        B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC
                                         ^^^^
"B.S." is somehow fitting.

                                -- K.

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!decwrl!spool.mu.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Apparent Em Interference By Ufos
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 07:18:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 176

Hi,

   I couldn't find the book, but I did dig out the Nova episode (which
actually turns out to have been done by the BBC, in 1976.)  A couple
of the things in my previous post were slightly incorrect; this should
correct that.

Interviewed: Richard Winer, Charles Berlitz (who both wrote "believer"
books), Lawrence Kushe (author of "Solved"), several coast guard
folks, some USN people who were in the tower on Dec. 5, 1945 or had
information that was of import, and Phil Klass (aiee, he's
everywhere!)

  The documentary took the tact of showing selected scenes from
Winer's "The Devil's Triangle" movie (based on his book, narrated by
Vincent Price), to give the "believer" side, and then giving Kusche's
side.  The "believer" side winds up pretty punctured.  Kusche resorts
to handwaving a few times, but is a paragon of logic compared to the
handwaving done by Berlitz and Winer (who are confronted on-camera
with contradictions to their accounts of events.)  A few highlights:



August 28, 1963 - 2 KC-135 tankers from Holmestead AFB disappeared.
Berlitz/Winer say that two sets of widely separated wreckage were
found, indicating they went down separately.  Kusche has the CG
report, which says that there was only one set of wreckage, and that
had pieces from both planes (the second set of wreckage was actually
misindentified seaweed around a buoy), and Kusche says this shows a
mid-air collision, and the CG report backs that up.

1947 - A British "Startiger" disappeared, no wreckage found.  But
the plane ditched in bad weather, at night.  (Planes often float
like rocks.)

(no date specified) - USCG vessel "Hollyhock" picks up "landmass" on
radar when nothing was there, and loses radio contact with Fla., but
can still contact California.  They interview a CG officer, who says
that isn't particularly strange.  Kusche says it was probably
atospherics and rain squalls.

   They also mention that around 100 vessels disappear in the Bermuda
Triangle (BT) every year, and that the Coast Guard gets about 10,000
ship-in-trouble calls every year, and interview a CG officer who tells
a few war stories about people trying to navigate with world atlas
maps from the dictionary, to show how inexperienced some sailors are.

   Now, on to the main event:


Flt. 19 - 2pm, Dec. 5, 1945, takes off from Ft. Lauderdale, on
practice bombing mission (with an east-bomb-north-southeast
flightplan); Lt. Taylor commanding four planes with student pilots (5
planes in all).  Berlitz/Winer (and others) say that 15 minutes before
the flight was due to land, various radio messages came in -- "off
course/can't see land/everything wrong/don't know which way is
west/ocean doesn't look right, etc.".  The documentary people couldn't
find anybody who was there who says they heard these messages; two
people who *were* there (Don Poole, Walt Winchell) say they did get
messages that the planes were lost, but none of the more inflamitory
supposed-messages.  (Kusche did track down the first occurance of
reporting of these messages, in a 1962 issue of "American Legion
Magazine"; he corresponded with Alan Eckerd, the author, who said he
could not remember who told him about the messages.)

   The documentary crew then flew in a CG plane, following the
flightplan of Flight 19, to see what they could see, and using that
and the Navy report on the loss of the flight, come up with the
following.

   The practice bombing at the end of the east leg of the flight (to
"Hans and Chicken Islands") went fine, but when then flight turned
north, they encountered "no horizon" conditions (haze that blurs the
visible difference between sea and sky).

   At 3:40pm, Cmdr. Robert Cox, then flying over Ft. Lauderdale,
picked the following on his radio from Ft. 19:

    "lost after last turn; Both compasses out; I'm sure I'm in the
     Keys, but not sure how far down.  Don't know how to get to
     Ft. Lauderdale."

... the documentary notes that Taylor had been recently transferred
from further south in Fla., and so had before flown often over the
Keys.  The documentary postulates that Taylor got confused, and
thought he was over the Keys; they showed footage from the CG plane
following the route, and the "Key-like" islands to be seen along Flt.
19's path.   Taylor might just plain have disbelieved his compasses,
and decided he was over the Keys.  [Of course, if he did that, then
he would have been unlikely to believe his compasses further, which
he apparently did.]

   The tower could not raise Taylor on the radio (they could hear, but
not get through to him), so could not tell him anything.  If Taylor
thought he was in the Keys, he would have headed north and east to get
back to the Florida mainland.  If Flt. 19 did follow that track, they
would just wind up flying further out into the Atlantic.

   Poole and Winchell (in the tower) heard a student pilot say,
"Dammit, if we head west, we'd get home."  (So you were right, Kevin.)

   Taylor and the others headed west for a few minutes, but then back
to the east, and then in various directions.  Radio traffic (all
recreated by the documentary):

    "One of the planes thinks if we head 270 [i.e. west], we could
     hit land."

    "We are heading 030 [northeast] for 45 minutes, then we will
     fly north to make sure we're not over the Gulf of Mexico"

    "Flight, this is leader.  Change course to 090 [east] for
     ten minutes.  One-Zero minutes."

    "I receive you very weak.  We are now flying 270"

    "We will fly 270 until we hit the beach or run out of gas"

    "Flight, this is leader.  When the first man gets down to 10
     gallons of gas, we'll all land in the water together.  Does
     everyone understand."

... but they later turned east again.  At 6pm, a radio fix placed Flt.
19 north of the Bahamas [they showed the fix directions from the 6
stations that picked up the planes -- the bearings to not intersect
particularly well; for instance 2 cross over western Florida, but
their placement is ok], 150 miles north of Ft. Lauderdale.

... so the Flight was ditching in the dark, in rough seas (reported by a
ship in the area).  They quote from the Avenger's pilot handbook that
the Avenger can stay afloat for 15-20 seconds after ditching (and
Kusche says he's talked to some Avenger pilots who claim 45 seconds).
In any case, not a pleasant prospect for Flt. 19.

   The flying boat (a Martin Mariner PBM, not PBY as I had said
earlier) took off from Bananna River NAS at 7:27 pm to search.  It was
tracked by radar for 20 minutes, then disappeared.  A midair fireball
was observed at the right time and location (they don't say by who);
the supposition was that the plane exploded.  They interviewed a
Richard Adams, of Mariner rescue operations at the time of Flt. 19,
who says "it coulda happened" that somebody was smoking in the fuel
compartment -- Mariner's were called "Flying Gastanks", and had a
known gas-fume problem.  (They also note flaws in Berlitz/Winer/others
accounts, which have the last radio contact at 4:25pm (Winer, others),
5:25pm, or 4pm (Berlitz), and the PBM's departure "soon after", when
clearly the last contact times were wrong, and the plane takeoff
wrong-- giving the false impression that everything happened in
daylight, which it did not.)


   ... the documentary then takes a few spare potshots (really just
namecalling) at various other books (Chariots of the Gods, for
instance), and then finish up with none other than our old pal Phil
Klass to say that airline service in the BT is safer than average, and
(with a flourish, producing NTSB records for 1964-1973) that only 25
light planes were lost in the BT in a 10 year period; 2/3 of whose
pilots were not instrument-rated, and half of which had fewer than
1,000 hours (i.e. they would not be in such good shape in bad
weather), and that some (well, 2) actually reported problems before
being lost.

   The documentary ends with glowing words of how science can solve
things, and so on.  All in all, a good job.


... so anyway, there's the deal.  If you accept this idea (which is
pretty compelling, IMO), that Taylor thought he was over the Florida
Keys, far to the south and west of where he actually was (which is
pretty odd, as I've said before, but appears to be borne out by the
radio-traffic that's quoted), then the planes began flying fairly
aimlessly, and wound up ditching in the dark in rough seas.  Given
that ditching in *daylight* is pretty hard, it would be likely then
that the pilots that did not actually die in crashes drowned, either
in their planes or afterward.

Charles
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (LAKKOJU V N M)
Subject: ufos and Newage
Message-ID: <ea500.721045118@Paddington>
Keywords: ufos
Sender: [e-mail] (Unix Network News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: paddington
Organization: The City University
Distribution: alt
Date:  6 Nov 92 10:18:38 GMT
Lines: 40

I THINK THERE IS SOME RELATION BETWEEN UFOs AND "CORN CIRCLES"
FURTHERE WHILE MANY PEOPLE TRYING TO FIND VALID REASION FOR
FORMATION AND DEVELOPMENT OF CORN CIRCLES AND SOME  INVESTIGATORS ARE
TRYING TO LINK THIS THEORY WITH "VORTEX " FORMATION AND "VORTEX " MOVEMENT
IT IS WELL KNOWN THAT VALID REASONS AND PREDICTIONS CAN BE MADE FROM VORTEX THEORY FOR ORIGION DEVELOPMENT AND DECAY OF TORNODOS,CYCLONES AND

I THINK IN NEAR FUTURE SOME INTERESTING CONCLUSIONS CAN BE OBTAINED FOR
BOTH UFOs AND CORN CIRCLES

I AM INTERESTED TO FURTHER ANY ONE COULD BE ABLE TO SEND LINK BETWEEN
UFOs AND ORN CIRCLES



x
x



















x
x
v
x

Xref: icaen alt.folklore.college:2814 alt.religion.kibology:4488 alt.config:10795 alt.alien.visitors:10812
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From: [e-mail] (Bjoern Tore Sund)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.college,alt.religion.kibology,alt.config,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: alt.fan.omar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:02:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Bergen University Newsaccount)
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Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Citecheck Hell) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
|> >Ok, so how does one go about becoming a new group?
|>
|> This was such a great straight line, I had to let Kibo take it.

I want to take it to....

The answer is: Becoming groups is something that amoebas (sp?) do.
    1. If you're an amoueba, you'll instinctively know how to become a group.
    2. If you're not, forget about that, and find some more realistic goal.

--
    ___   ___
__  |__)   |    Bjoern Tore Sund (BT)   Quote: "Nothing!"
    |__)   |    [e-mail]              - Marvin

P.S. Sorry about that, Kibo, if you _really wanted to take it yourself, but I couldn't
help myself. It _was_ a "great straight line"! :-)
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:10813 alt.sex:82277 alt.sex.stories:3088 rec.humor:68279 alt.flame:45647
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!monu6!escargot!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au!s925609
From: [e-mail] (KSC - Firefox)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sex,alt.sex.stories,rec.humor,alt.flame
Subject: Re: rapture in flames
Date: 6 Nov 1992 11:39:48 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

[e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (KSC - Firefox) writes:
>>On an afterthought, maybe I should send the dude the purity.1500 test

>Better yet, post it so we can all enjoy it!
    Here?

=================================  --   --   --   --   --   --
Kevin Cheng aka Firefox       __  |__|  __| |__  |__  |  | |__|
NGC 4954 Sombrero Galaxy     (__     | |       | |  | |  |    |
RMiT Aerospace Engineering    __)  --' `--   --' `--' `--'  --'
===================================== @minyos.xx.RMiT.oz.Au ===
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12534 alt.alien.visitors:10814 sci.skeptic:33662
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  6 Nov 92 06:16:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 11

Dear Thinkers not Stinkers: I just woke up thinking about Bigfoot (some
people say they are real stinkers). To see something that is going
at such a high freq. that you can't see it with you physical eyes
all you have to do is projected a strobe light on it in the dark at
a freq. that can be seen by the human eye (say 20 cycles per
second) and you would be able to see it. This should work for looking
at Bigfoot when he is the cloaking mode, ghost and what have you. Be
sure and don't use high entensity light on a ghost because it scrambles
their nerves and makes them mad at you. Say, this discussion sounds
a little like the movie Ghost Busters.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12535 alt.alien.visitors:10815
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  6 Nov 92 06:21:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Bigfoot Wachters: Boy last night I surely did a lot of thinking
about Bigfoot in my dreams. If I didn't know any better I would think
they are trying to teach me something. Anyway it make life interesting.
John Winston
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:10816 alt.religion.kibology:4489
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  6 Nov 92 06:26:41 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Bigfoot Observers: I haven't heard what they say about men
with big feet but I can guess. Maybe if we can learn something about
how to treat Bigfoot then we can learn how to treat ourselves.
John Winston
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: AURAS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  6 Nov 92 06:34:37 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8

Dear Folk: Pardon me that man's name was Guy Coggins. When I was a
kid we used to have a series of jokes about a person who was telling
the truth about something and it makes me think of Kathie and how she
is explaining the aura to some of the people who don't even believe
they have an aura. One of the sayings goes like this; You tell them
slaughter house you've got the guts. Anyway Kathie keep up the good
work.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Human yet not human, stuc
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:26:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels) writes:

> WHY HAVE YOU DISTURBED THE ENTITY KNOWN AS BOB WITH THESE  SCENES
> DURING HIS REST PERIOD?
> It was time he knew.
                                             ^^^

That explains it...

--

Alan Greig                            Janet: [e-mail]-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology       Internet: [e-mail]
Tel: [phone]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Subject: Re: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:50:18 GMT
Lines: 32


joseph Daniels[writes]:

>Keywords: with it on Monday, had photographed an UNIDENTIFIED OBJECT on
the
>Martian  surface  seconds  before  losing  contact."   Scientists
>described the UNIDENTIFIED OBJECT as a thin ellipse 20 KILOMETERS
>LONG!  It  was  further stated that the photos could  not  be  an
>illusion because it was captured by 2 different color cameras  as
>well as cameras taking infrared shots.

If this is true, then the pixel damage theory is out the window! If there
were 3-4 cameras taking the photos it seems unlikely they would all fail &
see the same thing.

Anybody know if there were truly more than one camera taking photograghs?

Rod





--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$




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From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Flagstaff Craft
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:40:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 16


    [e-mail] (Mr G S Sutherland) writes:
    One theory that I've heard about the Belgian UFOs was from a
    French Science magazine (sorry, I've forgotten its title), but
    it gave the explanation that it was the test flights of the
    Stealth plane - at least that is what the US Government had
    said....

... last I heard, that was tracked down; the F-117 explaination was
generated by the French press, not the US Government.  Where did you
get the "US Government says" part?  A recent MUFON article about the
Belgian sightings said that neither NATO and the Belgian Air Force
would claim the planes, or say they knew what they were (F117's were
"out", by then, having been used in Panama.)

Charles
Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:33679 alt.paranormal:5966 alt.alien.visitors:10821
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Stan Brown)
Subject: Re: Jeane Dixon Predicts Bush Victory
Organization: Oak Road Systems, Cleveland Ohio USA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:32:52 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 73

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark Meyer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>> Well, folks, it's official now. The Great Psychic has spoken: George
>> Bush is going to be re-elected. In the tabloid "The Star", Oct. 20, 1992,
>> she predicts that "George Bush ekes out a win."
>
>    For those of you scoring at home, she was WRONG.     [...]
>    Did she say anything else we could rip apart, er, check? :-)

Well over a decade ago, she predicted the Chesapeake Bay Bridge (now
named the Gov. William Preston Lane memorial bridge) in Maryland would
fall down within a couple of years.  I'm afraid I don't have the actual
dates but it was before the second span was built (to relieve congestion
of traffic).  Both spans are still standing, long after she said the
first one was to have collapsed.

Make enough predictions and you're bound to get a few right, just by
chance.  Why she goes on making such spectacular ones, given her string
of spectacular boo-boos, is beyond me.  But my amazement is exceeded by
my amazement that the media still consider her predictions newsworthy.
(Unless they reported her prediction of a Bush victory as a way of
reassuring us that Clinton was going to win.)

Here's a way (illegal I'm sure, unethical certainly, so I do not
recommend it) that she could have made some money if she had as much
smarts as chutzpah, and her wrong predictions would not count against
her.  The essential idea is to cover both sides of each prediction.  For
clarity I'll do it in historic terms, since we know how those contests
turned out..

In July 1968 send out 1024 letters to 1024 people.  In half you predict
a Humphrey victory, in half you predict a Nixon victory.  (Keep track of
who got which letter.)  After the election, purge from your database the
folks you sent the Humphrey predictions to.  But send letters to the
other 512 reminding them that you predicted the victory back in July.

Now in July 1972 send letters to those 512, half preicting a McGovern
victory and half a (shudder) Nixon re-election.  After the election,
send reminders to the 256 who got the Nixon prediction.

In 1976 send letters to the 256: 128 Ford and 128 Carter predictions.
After the election you've got 128 people who remember (because you
remind them) that you were right three times in a row.  Repeat in 1980
with 64 Reagan and 64 Carter letters; in 1984 with 32 Reagan and 32
Mondale; in 1988 with 16 Bush and 16 Dukakis.

Now you have 16 people who know you were right in 6 of the last 6
elections.  In 1992 you send them letters reminding them of your
infallible record, which they believe because they don't know about all
your failures.  You offer to sell them the 1992 election winner's name
for substantial money. I'd be surprised if you didn't get several
takers, because people don't understand the laws of chance.

This is not of course original with me.  But if you think about the
lesson, you'll realize that a lot of what seem to be successful
predictions based on foreknowledge are actually based on luck.

Psychologically, this scam would work better if the predictions were
more often than four years.  You could pick the original 1024 in states
where the governor's races are offset two years from the presidential
races, and cities where the mayoral elections are in odd years.  Thus
the scam would run four times as fast and you'd be in people's minds
that much more.  Of course, you'd want to spread things around, sending
no more than one or two letters to the residents of any one city, lest
they talk to each other and notice what's going on.  The whole scheme
collapses if the people who receive your successful predictions learn of
your unsuccessful predictions.  Or maybe it doesn't--being spectacularly
wrong hasn't seemed to hurt Jeane Dixon't newsworthiness any.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems                      [e-mail]
Cleveland, Ohio, USA
"Only the futility of the first flood prevents God from unleashing another."
            --Chamfort, as quoted in Claude Arnaud's {Chamfort: A Biography}
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12543 alt.alien.visitors:10822 alt.religion.kibology:4497 alt.religion.scientology:3040
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From: [e-mail] (Magnus Alvestad)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology,alt.religion.scientology,alt.magnus.and.ketil
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:19:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Bergen University Newsaccount)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: UVBS -> SFK/T-DSA / SOPS - HOS / RNoN
Lines: 10
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Thu, 5 Nov 1992 04:01:07 GMT

>>>>> On Thu, 5 Nov 1992 04:01:07 GMT, [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry) said:

    Kibo> Winston is going to start following me around?  And
    Kibo> should I buy a whole metric wardrobe?  And what's with
    Kibo> Perot never blinking?  Is he a Scientologist?

Hmm, Hannibal the Cannibal never blinks either - does that mean he's
running for president..?

-Magnus
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
References: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net Noise owner)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:04:56 GMT
Lines: 66

[e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)  writes:


>   I found the following file on a board in London, Ontario called
>   InfoNet. I'm sure it mentions that incident.

>                     The Phobos II Incident
>                  Hostile Aliens Based on Mars

>On  July  12,  1988  the USSR  launched  Phobos  II  an  unmanned
>satellite  to  Mars. It arrived in January 1989  and  entered  an
>orbit   around  Mars  as  the  first  phase  towards  it's   real
>destination, a small Martian moon called Phobos. The mission  was
>flawless  until the craft aligned itself with the moon. On  March
>28,  1989  an  elliptical object was detect  moving  towards  the
>satellite seconds before it failed. All indications were that the
>elliptical  object had attacked the satellite which was now  dead
>and left spinning out of control.

Phobos II had no way of telling which direction this object was moving
(assuming it really existed) unless it took multiple photos of said
object.  Where are these?  I have yet to see any reason to believe that
this object (again stipulating that it existed) attacked Phobos II.  Why
do people come to this conclusion?

>On  March 28, 1989 Tass, the official Soviet news agency  stated:
>"Phobos  II failed to communicate with Earth as  scheduled  after
>completing  and  operation  yesterday  around  the  Martian  moon
>Phobos.  Scientists  at  mission  control  have  been  unable  to
>establish stable radio contact."

>But  the  next  day a top official of  the  Soviet  Space  Agency
>(Glavkosmos)  said:  "Phobos  II is 99% lost for  good."   It  is
>important  to note that he stated the entire satellite  was  gone
>and not just contact with it.

Puhleeeez.  This is the a very silly conclusion.  He said it was "lost"
meaning we can't talk to it, not that it was vaporized.

>One  controller at the Kaliningrad control center concluded  that
>the  probe  was now spinning out of control. It would  seem  that
>something struck or shot the Phobos II Probe.

There is no reason to think that it had to be hit to start spinning.
Phobos was commanded to spin to point its antenna at Earth.  It almost
certainly just messed up.  The Soviets were famous for screwing up Mars
probes.

>It has long been rumored that Mars and it's moon Phobos are alien
>colonies.   The   surface  of  Mars  is  covered   with   strange
>shapes/buildings  that  do not appear to be natural such  as  the
>pyramids,  square  buildings, runways, etc.  etc.  One  structure
>shows the face of a man with a helmet looking into space.

You have a very impressive imagination if you can see all this in Viking
pictures.  There is no reason to think that anything on the surface of Mars
is artificial except for Vikings 1 and 2 and the remains of early Soviet
landers.

> . SLMR 2.1a . My reality check just bounced.

The most appropriate .sig I've seen all day.
--
Josh Hopkins                                          [e-mail]

"We can lick gravity, but the paperwork's a bit tougher."  Wernher von Braun
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!mechanic!Lauren.Podolak
From: [e-mail] (Lauren Podolak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Cable TV Consumer Pr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 01:57:04 PDT
Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida
Lines: 39

JD>But, what if you are wrong?  What if the Bible, and
JD>everything in it, IS the
JD>inspired word of God?  Are you so sure that it is not
JD>that you are willing t
JD>risk an eternity in Hell?

JD>For all the bad things that folks have said that people
JD>have done in the nam
JD>of Christianity (and this, by the way, is a perfect
JD>example of why, when you
JD>blame things on Christians, you may actually be talking
JD>about folks who only
JD>claimed to be Christian but really were not), NONE of it compares with th
JD>torment of Hell.

Please, if this were the case that not following and living by the
precepts of the bible sent you to hell.  Then there is an impressive
list of people currently residing in hell.  This list would include
probably 60% of all popes of the Roman Catholic Church, people such as
Torquemada from Spain, all "missionaries" who aided and abetted the
enslavement and degradation of non-white non-catholic indigenes. Any and
all succesful businessmen, politicians and and most clergy of the Roman
Catholic church.

I have dont meet many people who have every lived morally by the bible's
concepts.  I meet many who claim to live that way and fall woefully
short.....

Lauren
___
 X OLX 2.1 TD X FORMATING  Cyl 001  HD 05


--
Internet: [e-mail]
UUCP:     ...!myrddin!tct!mechanic!Lauren.Podolak
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From: [e-mail] (Lauren Podolak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Tesla: Genius and Fr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 01:58:06 PDT
Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida
Lines: 22

HO>Want to hear about another one?  Try Royal Rife in the 20-30's.  He found
HO>a cure for cancer, but the phameutical (ok, drug
HO>companies) and the American
HO>Cancer Society fixed that with the help of the AMA.

HO>Nothing a little greed wont stop!

I that was Hoxley?  He defended his cure in a Chicago court room in the
30's and won only to be closed down on a legal technicality about
crossing state lines.

Lauren
___
 X OLX 2.1 TD X FORMATING  Cyl 001  HD 05


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Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!mechanic!Lauren.Podolak
From: [e-mail] (Lauren Podolak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Tesla: Genius and Fr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 01:59:08 PDT
Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida
Lines: 20

JP>The FDA has now started to raid practitioners that are
JP>using vitamins to tre
JP>diseases such as AIDS, holding patients and staff at gunpoint after kicki
JP>the doors (May 6, 1992, Kent, Washinton, Tahoma Clinic,
JP>Jonathon Wright, M.D

Can you provide substantiation of this claim?  I hadn't heard FDA agents
carry guns..........

Lauren
___
 X OLX 2.1 TD X Porter Consulting Services! #1 in Networks...


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From: [e-mail] (Lauren Podolak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Globa
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 02:06:10 PDT
Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida
Lines: 18

FR>John - Hah!  You call that big!?!  Elvis came to me last night and took
FR>me to a ship 14 _lightyears_ across.  It's called the 'Blue Suede Shoe'.
FR>So don't tell me about big.  BTW - you said 'I show you big'.  Does this
FR>mean you have pictures?  I'd show you mine, but I forgot my camera :-(.


you slay me..........hahahaha....."forgot may camera"......hahahhahaha

Lauren
 X OLX 2.1 TD X Now where did I put that phase discriminator......


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From: [e-mail] (Lauren Podolak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Globa
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 02:00:12 PDT
Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida
Lines: 31

JD>>              The Brotherhood has on call over 11,000,000 craft the
JD>>      last I heard.

JD>Who they?  Incidentally, wouldn't these 11000000 shiups
JD>have been noticed by
JD>now when they bombed about the solar system?  Or is it just that there's
JD>massive conspiracy on the part of all the astronomers and anybody else wh
JD>happens to look into the sky every now and then to not
JD>let us know about it?

JD>>  They range from 30 foot shuttles (our word for
JD>>      it) to motherships 360 feet long.  One mother carries about 50
JD>>      shuttles.  Then they have ships that are called arks like the
JD>>      seven cities of Shan.  Some ships have names such as Transvaal
JD>>      and one called Phoenix.


You know whats funny this kinda sounds like a SciFi book by Greg Bear
called The Forge of God.

lauren
___
 X OLX 2.1 TD X Captain I believe thats the sound of a phaser on overload


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From: [e-mail] (Lauren Podolak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Globa
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 02:01:14 PDT
Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida
Lines: 25

ITA>Maybe you should get your eyes checked and get a clue while you're at it
ITA>Anything in the earth's atmosphere and unpowered (this includes meteors
ITA>shooting stars) is obviously under the influence of the
ITA>earth's gravity and
ITA>definitely isn't going to travel in a straight line.

Theoretically something could travel in a straight line in the
atmosphere is you had one of the those astronomical encounters where an
extra-solar body with a higher relatively motion than intra-solar bodies
happened to draw an oblique line thru the earth's atmosphere with
sufficient speed not to be deviated.  Of course you have to postulate a
body that has an incredible surface fusion temperature to remain intact
through such a deep grazing atmosphere approach...

lauren
___
 X OLX 2.1 TD X Captain I believe thats the sound of a phaser on overload


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From: [e-mail] (Lauren Podolak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What is Gary Stollma
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 02:01:16 PDT
Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida
Lines: 23

CI>1)  If you were replaced by a clone that had all your memories, how can
CI>    you tell?  How do you know YOU'RE not a clone?

CI>2)  How do you know that girl wasn't one of "them"?  How do you know we,
CI>    the posters and readers of this newsgroup, aren't clones?

CI>3)  If you know so much about "them", would it make sense for them to
CI>    allow you to expose them on a public network read by thousands of
CI>    people?

Hey! I know am not a clone.........at least I think I'm not........

lauren (the original I think)
___
 X OLX 2.1 TD X --T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E--


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From: [e-mail] (Lauren Podolak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 02:02:18 PDT
Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida
Lines: 25

JO>at this time I was really feeling heavy. It was just as if I was on anoth
JO>planet that had a stronger gravity than ours. I thought of
JO>Mars and how it would probubly  take short sturdy bodies to live on such
JO>planet.
JO> We then turned off Niles Canyon Road on to a paved road
JO>going north towards a

I am sorry for this time dilated reply to this message we are just
getting this conference down here in Sunny St Pete, Fla.  But Martian
gravity would be roughly 25% or earth normal gravity.  And if there were
natives of Mars there would not be short and squat cause that would
probably be the characteristic of someone who lived in a 2 gravity or
stronger field.......

Lauren
___
 X OLX 2.1 TD X Who said that Interstellar Empires don't exit?


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From: [e-mail] (Lauren Podolak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 02:03:20 PDT
Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida
Lines: 30

DT>Next time, John, have that string tied to a switch that can trigger a
DT>camera, and put a camera with a flash and a wide angle lens in the tree
DT>to cover the area.  That way you know if it was a ten year old Boy Scout
DT>with his Scout staff or a Sasquatch that collected the bait.

DT>If it is a Sasquatch, it probably won't know what a camera is and
DT>probably won't disturb your equipment. If the camera and the apples are
DT>missing, I think you can postulate a member of homo sapiens with a stick
DT>:-).

DT>Ok - so use a cheap camera!

DT>Then you can digitize the photos, uuencode them, and post them to the
DT>newsgroup :-).


Doug don't you know that it as an law of nature that cameras are never
ever around when you need them?

Lauren
___
 X OLX 2.1 TD X Unable to locate Coca Cola -- Operator Halted!


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From: [e-mail] (Lauren Podolak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Races?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 92 23:36:02 PDT
Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida
Lines: 18

JPC>One of the most intelligent responses this group has seen for a long time..

JPC>Is Patrick the only one *really* thinking about all this?

Some of us do but wonder why anyone would visit here when we would be so
easy to conquer instead.

Lauren
___
 X OLX 2.1 TD X My reality check just bounced.


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Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12548 alt.alien.visitors:10834 alt.religion.kibology:4507 alt.religion.scientology:3044
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!ames!sun-barr!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!texsun!exucom.exu.ericsson.se!ericom!sunic!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!taxus.uib.no!ketil
From: [e-mail] (Ketil M. Malde)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology,alt.religion.scientology,alt.magnus.and.ketil
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:54:43 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Bergen University Newsaccount)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: student of numerical analysis at the University of Bergen, Norway
Lines: 19
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 6 Nov 92 16:19:07

>>>>> On 6 Nov 92 16:19:07, [e-mail] (Magnus Alvestad) said:

>>>>> On Thu, 5 Nov 1992 04:01:07 GMT, [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry) said:

    Kibo> Winston is going to start following me around?  And
    Kibo> should I buy a whole metric wardrobe?  And what's with
    Kibo> Perot never blinking?  Is he a Scientologist?

    M> Hmm, Hannibal the Cannibal never blinks either - does that mean he's
    M> running for president..?

I thought he's Cthulhu's vice president candidate...

-ketil


--
 = Ketil Malde                     In real life:  [e-mail] =
 = Nuke the whales!                    Honk if you love unicorns! =
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: rapture in flames
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:47:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 26
Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes:
>>nmt@NSA writes:
>>>My words--         Hey, I've experienced the rapture, (excuse me) the
>>RAPTURE several times and I didn't have to wait for Oct. 28.  Many of us
>>>modern folk call it orgasm and it can be heavenly and almost as good as the
>>>second coming.  :)
>>> Colleen
>>> --
> ?>> It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
>>> The Crimson Bunion
>
>>     Hey you, DEVIL WORSHIPER!!!!!
>

To the anonymous poster who flamed Colleen:  in the immortal words of
Whoopie Goldberg:
    "Mick, Mick, Speak ENGLISH, Mick!"

And to Colleen:

Great comeback.  One of the best I've ever seen.  Rational, thoughtful,
and well written!  I agree with you 150%  It's people like Mr./Ms. Moral
Majority that are corrupting the young!

Kellie M-S
internet::[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news!wrs.com!davidj
From: [e-mail] (David Jones)
Subject: The International UFO Congress And UFO Film Film Festival
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: The International UFO Congress And UFO Film Film Festival
Keywords: The International UFO Congress And UFO Film Film Festival
Sender: [e-mail] (News Manager)
Nntp-Posting-Host: erra
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:22:07 GMT
Lines: 238



 ############################################################################
 #     The following is sent as a public service announcement and is for    #
 #   informational purposes only.  I am not receiving any renumeration for  #
 #     helping to inform the public in this regards.  I will be happy to    #
 #       try to answer any questions about the below that you may have.     #
 #                                                                          #
 #    Thank you.  David W. Jones   [e-mail]   OR   uunet!wrs!davidj   #
 ############################################################################

 Part 1 of 3:


            INTERNATIONAL UFO CONGRESS AND UFO FILM FILM FESTIVAL
                   November 27th through December 3rd 1992
                   Hacienda Hotel  Las Vagas, Nevada, UFO

                            For More Information:
                            Call [phone]:
                                Or write to:
                             UFO Congress Office
                                4266 Broadway
                              Oakland, CA 94611



                      Invited Speaker List and Schedule
                      =================================

   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

                            Friday November 27th
                           -----------------------

                  Registration:  3:00 P.M. until 7:00 P.M.
                               Film Festival:

   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

                           Saturday November 28th:
                           -----------------------

                  Registration:  7:00 A.M. until 8:00 P.M.

                                  Speakers
                                  ========

                        9:00 A.M. ED BURROUGHS: (USA)
       The author of "Specimen" offers his research on our UFO origin.

                     11:00 A.M. GLEN S. STECKLING: (USA)
 We will take another look at George Adamski.  With  witnesses  &  scientific
                    evaluation of his spectacular photos.

                         12:45 P.M. until 2:00 P.M.
                                    Lunch

                        2:00 P.M. ROBERT DEAN: (USA)
 Presents a case with proof positive of a government cover  up;  ending  with
                Bob winning his lawsuit against the Government!!

                4:00 P.M. COL. WENDELLE STEVENS (ret.): (USA)
 Will present over 100 worldwide UFO photos and over 100 worldwide  published
                              UFO journals!

                      5:45 P.M. until 7:30 P.M.: Dinner

                                FILM FESTIVAL
         Starting at 7:30 P.M - New 1992 UFO films and UFO classics.

   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

                            Sunday November 29th:
                            ---------------------

                  Registration:  7:00 A.M. until 8:00 P.M.

                                  Speakers
                                  ========

               9:00 A.M. DR. LEOPOLDO DIAS MARTINEZ: (Mexico)
  Dr. Martinez is the physician who physically examined a  live  extraterres-
      tial being, & suffered the consequences! His first PUBLIC disclosure!

                    11:00 A.M. PROF. SUN SHI-LI: (China)
  Brings us up to date on UFO activity behind the Bamboo Curtain, & tells  of
                        alien craft in China's hands.

                      Lunch: 12:45 P.M. until 2:00 P.M.

                   2:00 P.M. PROF. A. J. GEVAERD: (Brazil)
  A life long UFO researcher, Prof. Gevaerd brings  us  up  to  date  on  the
               Maringa Contacts and other South American cases.

            4:00 P.M. STANTON FRIEDMAN with JAMIE SHANDERA: (USA)
  Stan premieres new information in his new book on Roswell and answers  your
     questions! Jamie tells us of his original receipt of the MJ-12 papers!

                     Dinner:  6:00 P.M. until 7:30 P.M.

 FILM FESTIVAL:  Starting at 7:30 P.M - New 1992 UFO films and UFO classics.


   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

                   Monday November 30th: (Experiencer Day)
                   ---------------------------------------

                  Registration:  8:00 A.M. until 8:00 P.M.

                                  Speakers
                                  =======

                        9:00 A.M. BUDD HOPKINS: (USA)

                    10:00 A.M. DR. RICHARD BOYLAN: (USA)

                         11:00 A.M. JOHN MALK: (USA)

                     12:00 A.M. DR. JAMES HARDER: (USA)
  The above four researchers will share their latest findings and conclusions
                 on the UFO EXPERIENCER (abduction) PHENOMENA.

                      Lunch:  1:00 P.M. until 2:00 P.M.

                         2:00 P.M. DR. EDITH FIORE:
  Dr. Fiore will chair the round-table Investigators  Panel  with  the  above
  Speakers.  This is your unprecedented opportunity to interact with the most
           experienced researchers into the UFO Experiencer Phenomena.

                         4:00 P.M. DR. EDITH FIORE:
  Dr. Fiore will introduce us to 10 Experiencers from all walks of life!  She
  will  chair  a round- table Experiencers panel.  This will be a rare oppor-
  tunity to interact with everyday people who are living with this phenomena!

                   Speakers PARTY:  6:30 P.M. to 7:45 P.M:
        Drink, eat, and be merry as you meet your speakers one on one!

                     Dinner:  7:45 P.M. until 9:00 P.M.

  FILM FESTIVAL:  Starting at 9 P.M - New 1992 UFO films and UFO classics.

   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

                            Tuesday December 1st:
                            ---------------------

                  Registration:  8:00 A.M. until 8:00 P.M.

                                  Speakers
                                  ========

                     9:00 A.M. DR. RICHARD BOYLAN: (USA)
  Dr. Boylan will share his personal investigative journey to  the  UFO  "HOT
                      SPOTS" of the West and South West.

                         11:00 A.M. DON WARE: (USA)

                      Lunch: 12:45 P.M until 2:00 P.M.

                     2:00 P.M. COLIN ANDREWS: (ENGLAND)

                        4:00 P.M. : (TO BE ANNOUNCED)

                     Dinner:  5:45 P.M. until 7:30 P.M.

 FILM FESTIVAL:  Starting at 7:30 P.M - New 1992 UFO films and UFO classics.


   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

                           Wednesday December 2nd:
                           -----------------------

                  Registration:  8:30 A.M. until 8:00 P.M.

                                  Speakers
                                  ========

                      9:00 A.M. LEMBIT RANNU: (ESTONIA)
  Lembit will brief our Congress on recent and  re-current  UFO  Contacts  in
                          Estonia and Eastern Europe.

                     11:00 A.M. PATRIC FERRIN: (BELGIUM)
  Patric is the acknowledged expert on the "Belgium Wave" and will  bring  us
                                up to date.

                      Lunch: 12:45 P.M until 2:00 P.M.

                    2:00 P.M. MICHAEL HESEMANN: (GERMANY)
  Europe's favorite investigator will bring us up to date on all  the  latest
           important activities from there, including GERMAN CROP CIRCLES!

                        4:00 P.M. : (TO BE ANNOUNCED)

                        Dinner:  5:45 until 7:30 P.M

 FILM FESTIVAL:  Starting at 7:30 P.M - New 1992 UFO films and UFO classics.

   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

                           Thursday December 3rd:
                           ----------------------

                  Registration:  8:30 A.M. until 2:30 P.M.
     Re-Open 6:00 P.M. until 7:30 P.M. (If seating is still available.)

                                  Speakers
                                  ========

                      9:00 A.M. SHELLY THOMPSON: (USA)

                     11:00 A.M. DR. STEVEN GREER: (USA)
  Dr. Greer will bring us news of all the latest successes for  his  interna-
     tional CSETI working groups initiating UFO Contacts of the 5th kind!

                      Lunch: 12:45 P.M. until 2:00 P.M.

                         2:00 P.M: (TO BE ANNOUNCED)

                  Dinner, EBE AWARDS, AND KEYNOTE SPEAKER:
                  -----------------------------------------

                   7:30 P.M.: Dinner (Meat or vegetarian)
                                Entertainment
                                 EBE Awards
                          Invited Keynote Speaker:

   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

           The above schedule is subject to change without notice.

Individual Speaker appearance subject to Speaker acceptance.  Later  personal
or  business  requirements  could  cause  any  given  Speaker to cancel their
appearance. Your Congress has a great line up of  alternate  Speakers  should
        any of the above speakers be unable to present for any reason.

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news!wrs.com!davidj
From: [e-mail] (David Jones)
Subject: The International UFO Congress And UFO Film Film Festival
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: The International UFO Congress And UFO Film Film Festival
Keywords: The International UFO Congress And UFO Film Film Festival
Sender: [e-mail] (News Manager)
Nntp-Posting-Host: erra
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:22:49 GMT
Lines: 70



 ############################################################################
 #     The following is sent as a public service announcement and is for    #
 #   informational purposes only.  I am not receiving any renumeration for  #
 #     helping to inform the public in this regards.  I will be happy to    #
 #       try to answer any questions about the below that you may have.     #
 #                                                                          #
 #    Thank you.  David W. Jones   [e-mail]   OR   uunet!wrs!davidj   #
 ############################################################################

 Part 2 of 3:

                        An Invitation from Bob Brown


Dear Friends:

I believe the UFO subject is the most important one facing us today.  If  you
also  believe  this  is true, please consider making the commitment to attend
The 1992 International Las Vegas UFO Congress! Last year this magnificent UFO
Congress  ran  for  five information packed days. Delegates heard over 20 UFO
speakers, each giving us a full 2 hour presentation.  We  had  no  "workshop"
fees,  and  presented  no  speakers  or  events simultaneously! All at a very
affortable price. We believe it was simply the best 1991  UFO  Event  in  the
U.S.!

The 1992  2nd Annual Las Vegas International UFO  Congress  offers  you  even
more  speakers  and  events  for even less money than you paid for last years
Congress! We are lining up an incredible block of speakers  from  around  the
world  to  present to you the latest and best UFO information available. When
attending this years Congress, you will also receive tickets to the new  "UFO
Film  Festival".  Every  evening  the "UFO Film Festival" will screen for you
both the newest and "premiere" UFO Films of 1992! You will be present  as  we
honor  the  best  of  this  years new UFO Films at the first ever "EBE Awards
Ceremony" during our gala Thursday Evening Dinner Event! Our  panel  of  dis-
tinguished  judges  will  vote  for  the  winners  of  "EBE's" in many select
categories, but after your nightly screening of 1992's best  UFO  films,  you
can  vote  for  your  favorite!  Your vote will decide the "EBE AWARD" in the
"Peoples Choice" category!

There is a date change  for  this  years  congress.  This  change  moves  the
Congress  far   ahead  of Christmas so that it should not interfere with your
Christmas plans; nor the plans of our European friends  either!  Registration
will open on Friday November 27th at 3 P.M., with the first session beginning
Saturday, November 28th at 9 A.M. After a full 6 days of speakers and events,
the  final  session  will  be our Awards Dinner on Thursday Evening, December
4th.  That's 6 full days and 7 nights of congress events!

We have been asked "why the congress is  a  full  week",  and  "can't  it  be
shorter?"  We  believe that most UFO events treat this subject like a dog and
pony show; setting up with speakers competing with one another for your time,
as  well  as  charging  you extra every time you want to hear the whole story
from a speaker! It is our believe that these kind of policies are the highest
form  of  dis-service  to both you and your speakers. No, a week is needed to
completely cover the information that will be presented to you.  But, we also
understand  the  many  commitements  in  your life today. So, if you can just
attend Saturday and Sunday, or only one day,  we  understand  ...Commit  what
time  you can, but please commit! Only 300 reserved seats can be sold to this
exciting event! No more, no less. Avoid disappointment.  Reserve now!

I am looking forward to sharing the most exciting UFO Congress ever presented
with  you!  I  hope  you  will choose to be there, for it is FOR YOU that the
Congress is held!

Sincerely,
Robert L. Brown

Producer "UFOs A Need To Know"
Producer "The Las Vegas International UFO Congress" & "EBE AWARDS"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news!wrs.com!davidj
From: [e-mail] (David Jones)
Subject: The International UFO Congress And UFO Film Film Festival
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: The International UFO Congress And UFO Film Film Festival
Keywords: The International UFO Congress And UFO Film Film Festival
Sender: [e-mail] (News Manager)
Nntp-Posting-Host: erra
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
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 ############################################################################
 #     The following is sent as a public service announcement and is for    #
 #   informational purposes only.  I am not receiving any renumeration for  #
 #     helping to inform the public in this regards.  I will be happy to    #
 #       try to answer any questions about the below that you may have.     #
 #                                                                          #
 #    Thank you.  David W. Jones   [e-mail]   OR   uunet!wrs!davidj   #
 ############################################################################

 Part 3 of 3:

============================================================================
Delegate Reservation Package
============================================================================
* 7 days and nights deluxe tower rooms at the newly remodeled   HACIENDA
  HOTEL, Las Vegas, NV. Featuring private bath, color TV, beautiful views
  of the desert & mountains, restaurants, and swimming pools.

* 6 Full "all you can eat" Daily Buffet Breakfasts (excluding Sunday).
* Admmission to the Welcome Cocktail Party Monday.
* Admission to all daily speaker sessions and events.
* Nightly Admission to the "UFO Film Festival".
* Admission to Thursdays Dinner and EBE Awards Ceremony.

Within a short distance from the Hotel are: public bars, restaurants of every
type, shopping centers, a health club, and a variety of other entertainment.

For little more than the price of your deluxe room alone you receive the
above full Delegate Registration for all Congress  and Film Festival Events!

=============================================================================
Delegate Package Pricing
=============================================================================
Single Delegate Rate  - If rooms still available!..................... $690
Double Delegate Rate  - Sharing a Room, ($460 each person) ........... $920

Weekend Congress & Festival  (Single)................................. $290
                 (Double-Sharing a Room) ................. $390
                   Friday and Saturday night stay,
                  Admission to weekend congress and events.

=============================================================================
Individual Reservation for Congress Only
=============================================================================
6 Day Congress & Festival - With Meal Events ......................... $440
6 Day Congress & Festival - Without Meal Events ...................... $390
UFO Film Festival Only  - All Nights ................................. $100
Daily Admission  - Excludes Meal and Film Events ..................... $ 90
Individual Speakers or Film Event .................................... $ 20
"Meet Your Speaker" Cocktail Party ................................... $ 20
Gala Evening Dinner/EBE Awards ....................................... $ 50

=============================================================================
Student, Seniors, and Military Discounts
=============================================================================
A "Space Available" 50% discount will be extended, for non-meal events, to
students with valid school ID, seniors 65 and older, and active military
personnel with ID, when purchasing Single Day, or Single Speaker tickets.

=============================================================================
Video and Audio Recording Policy
=============================================================================
Video and audio recorders will not be allowed during official sessions, but
professionally recorded video and audio tapes of the speakers may be ordered
at the Congress at reasonable prices.

=============================================================================
Congress Time Frame
=============================================================================
Congress registration will begin at 3PM on Friday November 27th, 1992. The
first speaker session will begin at 9AM on Saturday November 28th. The final
Session will conclude with the Gala EBE Awards on Thursday December 3th.
Depending on the number of entrys, the "UFO Film Festival" may begin on
Friday evening, November 27th.

=============================================================================
Exhibit Hall and Art Gallery
=============================================================================
The Exhibit Hall and Art Gallery will be open daily throughout the Congress.
Vendors will be present with interesting UFO books and related items for you
to purchase.

=============================================================================
Photo ID Badge
=============================================================================
Please send us (with your reservation) 2 passport size photos for use in
preparing your ID badge. There is a $2 charge per photo for on-site badge
prepartation during Congress Registation.

=============================================================================
Reservation Form
=============================================================================

Delegate One:    Name: ______________________________________

          Address: ______________________________________

         City: __________________________ State: ____ Zip: __________

        Phone: ____-____-___________

Delegate Two:    Name: -_____________________________________

          Address: ______________________________________

         City: __________________________ State: ____ Zip: __________ ì

        Phone: ____-____-___________

Please reserve _____Ticket(s) for the "2nd Annual International UFO Congress",
November 27- December 3, 1992, at the Hacienda Hotel! I am reserving;

______ Deluxe Delegate Reservation(s) with single room(s) at $690 per Delegate
______ 2nd Deluxe Delegate Reservation(s) (Sharing Double Room)
                             at $230 per 2nd Delegate.
______ Weekend Congress & FestivalReservation(s)
    (All Weekend Events, Friday /Saturday Night Stay)at $290 per Delegate.
______ Weekend 2nd Delegate Reservation(s) (Sharing Double Room)
                             at $100 per 2nd Delegate.
Congress Events Only:
______ Reserved Seating for Congress and Festival Only at $440 per Delegate.
            (with meal events).
______ Reserved Seating for Congress and Festival Only at $390 per Delegate.
            (without meal events).
______ Reserved Seating for UFO Film Festival Only at $100 per Delegate.
            (All nights).
______ Congress Single Day Admission at $90 per Delegate
            (Excludes Meal and Film Events).

For each Delegate:
         Please enclose two passport photos for Official Congress ID.

Enclosed is a payment for $________: | | Check  | | Money Order
                     | | Visa   | | Master Card
Cardholder's Name _____________________________________________

Card No# ____________________________ Expiration date ___________

Signature________________________________

Please Make Check Payable and Send to:

Video City Production, 4266 Broadway, Oakland, CA 94611.
Tel: [phone] Fax: [phone]

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!rdg.dec.com!qmary.enet.dec.com!chris
From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Hello from another world - PLS IGNORE
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr News)
Reply-To: [e-mail] ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:07:59 GMT
Lines: 0

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: ********
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr News)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:12:47 GMT
Lines: 1

!
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12549 alt.alien.visitors:10841
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  6 Nov 92 21:13:04 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Pyramid Watchers: Maybe I'll ask Donald Long to tell me what
they hope to accomplish during there future trip to the Great Pyramid
of China.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!fmsrl7!lynx!zia.aoc.nrao.edu!pharden
From: [e-mail] (Paul Harden)
Subject: Re: Winstons pyramid builders
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 23:52:12 GMT
Lines: 13

[e-mail] writes:

>Dear Pyramid Watchers: I just got through seeing a TV show called
>This Old Pyramid by Nova. I highly recommend it. It shows how a person
>built a small pyramid in the same way they believe the Great Pyramid
>of Egypt was built.
>John Winston

Yeah ... SO??????




Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:10843 alt.religion.kibology:4518
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  6 Nov 92 21:24:21 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Everybody: I don't know whether Perot is a Scientologist or not but
I'll tell you a little secret. Don Showen used to be a Scientologist.
I remember he once loaned me a book by L. Ron Hubbard by the title
of The First 3 Trillion Years are the Hardest. Don is no longer a
Scientologist. He now has his own religion.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!comlab.ox.ac.uk!oxuniv!atmnpt
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Alien in my laboratory
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:27:06 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
Lines: 9

I am a physicist who would like to know more about this
as I have a friend in my department who I believe is an alien.

I know this sounds absurd, but I have been thinking about this for
a long time and I believe this to be the case.

What do I do.

N.Thomas
From: [e-mail] (Jim Atwell)
Sender: [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!csource!acsnet
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: July 4, 1992 - Global Sp
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1992 19:49:00
Lines: 28

In a message to All <26 Oct 92 08:23> John_-_Winston wrote:

 Jo> From: [e-mail]
 Jo> Organization: The Portal System (TM)

 Jo> Subject: The Red Head.

[Stuff Deleted}

 Jo> In the most spectacular example of reincarnation of recent
 Jo> times, a baby emerged from her mothr's womb talking and
 Jo> announced to stunned doctors that she was Lucille Ball back
 Jo> form the dead.

 Jo>Information Source. Januar5y 23, 1990-Sun-page 29.
                                         ^^^^^
Nuff said really!!-------------------------^

But, errr...  what's this got to do with aliens UFOs and the like?


.Jim.

___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

 * Origin: Biz-Nice! S.Oz Business BBS! 4 Lines 08-269 7029/7809 (3:800/851)

From: [e-mail] (Jim Atwell)
Sender: [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!csource!acsnet
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: alt.alien.visitors.sewag
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1992 20:07:00
Lines: 40

In a message to All <30 Oct 92 15:15> <[e-mail]> wrote:

 <G> From: [e-mail] (<[e-mail]>)
 <G> Organization: Applied Computing
 <G> Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN

 <G> In my moderated e-mail group, most subjects will be allowed if
 <G> they are even loosely related to the following question and
 <G> intelligently (as opposed to sensationally) presented:

Hear Hear!!

 <G> Are aliens abducting people?
 <G> To me, the subject of UFOs/Aliens needs to be approached in a
 <G> scientific manner not a newage and sensationalistic manner.
 <G> BTW, my research is rolling. Its getting very interesting.

Good to see someone trying to look at the situation intelligently
for a change!

 <G> Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO
 <G> Sighting and Abduction Research
 <G> 812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or
 <G> e-mail me at [e-mail]
 <G> All information will be strictly confidential.

Gregg, do you have FidoNet access? If so could you post your
Netmail address for me?

Regards,
...Jim.




___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

 * Origin: Biz-Nice! S.Oz Business BBS! 4 Lines 08-269 7029/7809 (3:800/851)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!hardy.u.washington.edu!pul
From: [e-mail] (Arbaline)
Subject: ET Races: (Was: Re: a.a.v. Frequently Asked Questions [1 of 3])
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: Additions and corrections.
Keywords: FAQ
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 09:21:29 GMT
Lines: 255


In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (A figment of your imagination) writes:
>Hello and welcome to the alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions
>posting.
>I tried to keep a neutral stance when I researched the many of the
>subjects covered in this FAQ; however you may also notice that some of the
>material seem to be one-sided. When doing some of the research I may have
>only used one book or source, thus (as you may have noticed) some authors
>present information from only one point of view and this has a tendency to
>be carried over to this FAQ, do to the lack of information on the subject
>from another point of view.  (deep huh? well I hope to include more
>viewpoints as this FAQ grows.)

Not a bad start for the FAQ; however, there is lots of additional
information on the various extraterrestrial races visiting Earth, and
quite a few alternate viewpoints to the alt.conspiracy stuff
mentioned. Allow me to make a few contributions:

>=== Alien Races
>3.00: Arcturus
>--------------
>Members of Confederations of Humans [will do more research later]

The Arcturians are a very spiritual race that lives in a universe or
reality of pure love. There seems to be a gateway of some sorts at
this planet which transmits higher energies to our dimensional
universe.

Source: "The Prism of Lyra", especially the "Gateway to Arcturus" chapter.
Bashar mentions Arcturus too (see later).


>3.01: Aryans (Blondes)
>----------------------
>Blond Nordic Humanoids who work with the greys. Said to be captured by
>the Reptoids and also have implants.

The majority of the numerous Nordic human like races out there are
quite spiritual and come from the same life wave as the Pleiadians and
us. I don't know of any of these type that are hostile.

You should mention the Centaurian extraterrestrials, who are blond
nordic types who come from Alpha Centauri - that's right: the closest
star to our own! They like the Pleiadians seek to help us grow
spiritually, but they don't take as active a role as the other races,
although they do and have made contacts with select people on Earth.

Source: "UFO Contact from the Pleiades", in one of the contact
excerpts. I posted an article describing this visitation to the net
earlier, which I can send to whoever wants it.


>3.03: Confederation of Humans
>------------------------------
>An organization of alien groups born out of positive energy, that are
>helping the human race along and desire to protect them.  Includes:
>Vega, Arcturus, Sirius, Pleiades and other humanoids.

This is more often referred to as the "Intergalactic Confederation",
headed by the Ashtar Command. This includes not only the above races
but the Lyrians, DALs and Centaurians.

Lyrians: This is the very ancient parent race from which our entire
branch of human or humanoid races emerged, including all the nordic
types, the Orions, and even the Greys. Quite warlike in the infancy of
their civilization, they gradually improved their ways and are now
technically and spiritually at about the level of the Pleiadians.

Source: "The Prism of Lyra" & "UFO Contact from the Pleiades".

DALs: This is a race of nordic types who come from what is called the
DAL Universe. They are a branch of the Lyrians and are very advanced
technically and spiritually; about 300-1000 years ahead of the
Pleiadians. They are helping the Pleiadians in a very similar manner
to which the Pleiadians are helping us.

Source: "UFO Contact from the Pleiades" (By Wendelle Stevens)

You should mention the Andromedans too: These are a non-physical race
of purely awesome ancient angelic beings from the Andromeda galaxy.
They ultimately are the spiritual force behind the Ashtar command and
are the leaders behind the Pleiadians and our whole human branch of
evolution! Not only that, but they are the guiding power behind at
least one other completely different branch of evolution: The
Cygnusian races - quiet, slimy, amphibian like creatures who come from
planets in the constellation Cygnus. Again, the way the Andromeda
galaxy beings are helping the beings in our own Milky Way galaxy grow,
is a macrocosmic example of how the Pleiadians civilization is helping
our Earth civilization grow.

Source: "UFO Contact from the Pleiades" and other sources describing
Ashtar. I posted a large file on the Lyrian family of races to the net
a few months ago which gives more info on the Lyrians, Pleiadians,
Vegans, and DALs from this book, which I can send anyone interested.


>3.04: Greys
>-----------
> The Greys are the most commonly described race by abduction victims. In
>this view they are considered a race with an unknown motives, and
>agendas. They seem to be abducting, studying, testing and using various
>individuals for their one unclear reasons. [See: Abductions and Current
>Theories]
>There have also been many report of cross breeds that are
>not exactly human and not exactly Greys.
>Also See:
>Missing Time, by Budd Hopkins
>Intruders, by Budd Hopkins

Many believe that the main purpose of the Greys being here are to
create a Hybrid race between humans and themselves, from which a new
world will be created. It is said that the Greys' species is in
trouble and they are doing this to keep from becoming extinct. At the
same time, this activity is supposed to help us in a related manner.
The Greys are only a couple hundred years or even less ahead of us.
The Hybrids are generally exactly between Greys and ourselves, about
4'-5' tall with fair skin, having the good traits of both races. Now,
this purpose is the reason behind many of the tests and even sexual
examinations given abductees. The abductions quite often seem
terrifying for the people who have them, especially since the Greys
are kind of unemotional, and this of course leads to all the
conspiracy theories. But not all people thing negatively about them;
in "Intruders" one abductee felt honored and special at being chosen.
Another issue that seems to come up is the subject of agreement:
occasionally one hears of the fact that the Greys don't abduct anyone
who didn't agree to it "somewhere", subconsciously or whatever. There
is a lot more stuff I can say on these guys, especially in about half
dozen posts I've made on them from "UFO Contact from the Pleiades" and
from the book below.

Source: "Bashar: Blueprint for Change; a Message from our future." and
various materials from the Mystery School of Astara.


>3.05: Orion Empire (Orion forces)
>---------------------------------
>Those alien groups born out of negative energy such as the Reptoids and
>the grays. [If this is wrong someone please correct me, I'll do more
>research on this later]

A few corrections can be made. Two important points:

(1) Not all Orions were bad. The "Orions" ultimately referred to two
opposed races. A "Council of Light" was based at the star system
Betelgeuse, and the equally powerful evil Orions were based at the
star system Rigel. The Orions took over lots of planets back in our
galaxy's less spiritual days but were always balanced by the Federation.

Source: "EL*AN*RA, the Healing of Orion", by Solara of Star-Borne.

(2) The conquering part of Orion empire was defeated 200,000 years ago
by the Intergalactic Confederation, and they haven't been a threat to
Earth since. They are presently getting ready to "transform into the
4th dimension" just as we of Earth are. In fact, some people on Earth
are reincarnated Orions who are here to integrate their negativity and
hence allow both our worlds to ascend.

Source: "EL*AN*RA", "The Prism of Lyra", and "Bashar: Blueprint for Change".


>3.06: Pleiadians
>----------------
>The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star system
>Pleiades. They are also from various times in our future, starting from
>500 years from now to millions of years from now. The Pleiadian culture
>is ancient and was "seeded" from another universe of love long before
>Earth was created. They have formed a tremendous society which operates
>with love, with ideas and ideals that we are yet unfamiliar with.

True, although it's said that the Pleiadians went through many periods
in their civilization similar to the ones we are in now in their own past.

>Billie Meier's Contact from the Pleiades

Remember another famous Pleiadian case: In Shirley MacLaine's "Out on
a Limb" (book and tv movie), "Mayan" the pretty lady who taught David,
Shirley's friend, was an extraterrestrial from the Pleiades.

>UFO ... Contact from the Pleiades Vol I & II Photo Journals (Vol I is in
>        its second printing.)
>UFO ... Contact from the Pleiades Prilimary Investigation Report
>UFO ... Contact from the Pleiades Supplementary Investigation Report

Again, much of the information I'm giving now is from "UFO... Contact
from the Pleiades" (The preliminary investigation report.)

>Main source:
>Information given by [e-mail]
>Connecting Link Magazine Pleiadian article, Channeled by Barbara Marciniak

Way to go Don! :)


>3.07: Sirius
>-------------
>Members of Confederations of Humans [will do more research later]

A bit more can be said about them. They are a watery, dreamy race who
are basically an evolved version of dolphins and whales, somewhat.
They are said to live in the Christ consciousness, and are in a solar
system very linked with our own in a psychic manner. They too play a
role in helping Earth, but they are doing it from a more subtle
standpoint, like through the cetaceans in our seas.

Source: "The Rays and the Initiations" from the Theosophical society &
"Bashar". ("Prism of Lyra" has stuff on the Sirians too.)


>3.08: Reptoids
>---------------
>A reptilian race from Draco bent on conquest,  They are said to be
>controling the greys by means of an implant, the same one that the gray
>are implanting into humans.  They are also said to be the master minds
>behind the abduction plans. Their master plan involves using the newly
>created 'Half-breeds' with implants to defeat the Confederations of
>Humans. The Reptoids also use humans as food.  [Does this remind you of
>the movie V?]

Yes, this does sound straight out of V. Most of the sources that
describe any "Draconians" (Dracos = dragon) I don't consider reliable.
See section on Greys for info on the Hybrids. Some do say that the
Greys (being kind of insect like) have a few "queen" entities behind
them, but they are more non-physical or angelic in nature and are no
worse than the Greys themself.

Source: A few articles in "The Voice of Astara".


>3.09: Vega
>----------
>Members of Confederations of Humans [will do more research later]

Again, this is another race which originated from the Lyrians. They
are very human, with dark skin, and are about 200 years or so ahead of
the Pleiadians. Actually, quite a few races are ahead of the
Pleiadians, but the Pleiadians are the main civilization dealing with
and helping us grow because we are about the closest together in level
(about 300-1000 years) and hence they can best teach us, since they
were like we are and we will be like them pretty soon! :)

And, being visionary, I should describe the race of beings who live at
a planet circling the Barnard Star. According to Bashar, the Barnards
are about 300 years behind we of Earth, and are about at the spiritual
and technological level of our Renaissance. Since we are very close to
them, we will probably be spiritually helping them in a few hundred
years in *our* own UFOs the same way that the Pleiadians are helping us!


-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|      Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     -     [e-mail]      |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!uunet!verifone!ron_s
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: rapture bogus troll spit
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:32:20 -1000
References: <[e-mail]> <40f402r=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI
Lines: 38

>> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Colleen Anderson) writes:
>> >
>> >         Hey, I've experienced the rapture, (excuse me) the RAPTURE several
>> > times and I didn't have to wait for Oct. 28.  Many of us modern folk call it
>> > orgasm and it can be heavenly and almost as good as the second coming.  :)
>> > Colleen
>> > --
>> > It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn.
>> > The Crimson Bunion
>>
>>      Hey you, DEVIL WORSHIPER!!!!!
>>
>>      At least show some respect regarding other people's belief.  I personally
>> never believed that the rapture would occur on the 28th of October.  But,
>> if that is what others believed, I just leave it at that.  THERE HAS TO BE
>> A LIMIT FOR EVERYTHING.  THERE ARE CERTAIN SUBJECTS THAT ONE CAN NOT JOKE
>> ABOUT, and religious belief is certainly one of them.

    There can be no doubt that any subject must, should, and will be joked
about for as long as open minded people exist, or as long as the Bill of
Rights survives - and in particular any form of religious dogma should be
held up and illuminated on all sides exposed as the profound bogus
nonsense it really is.
    It doesn't take a genius to know by instinct, by intuition, or by
plain common sense - that the prophets of doom and gloom are wrong and
should be ignored.   I do not mean to deny spiritual values or
spiritual growth, but I do mean to destroy the pernicious effects
of dogmatic teaching on any individual.  I do not consider a spiritual
teaching worthy of such a name if it demands uncritical acceptance
of anything at all - this is not teaching or a means to any kind of
growth - it is merely brainwashing and propagandizing..

    Remember every individual must develop his/her own relationship
with the higher powers in the universe, call it God, Atman, Satori,
golden bliss, Rapture, or the Big Funhouse.. and the priests and
preachers of dogma may mean well, but you would do well to ignore
them or make fun of them...

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ajk.tele.fi!funic!nntp.hut.fi!nntp!Juhana.Rasanen
From: [e-mail] (Juhana R{s{nen)
Subject: Anybody remember 'the October Surprise'?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet pseudouser id)
Nntp-Posting-Host: vipunen.hut.fi
Organization: /u/opi/t/justus/.organization
Distribution: alt
Date: 7 Nov 92 14:00:35
Lines: 12

  Yeah, what was it? October is long gone and I don't think I've been
surprised in any way. I'm so disappointed! Who's responsible for this
disinformation? Or... could it be so that some of you guys have been...
er... dare I say... wrong? Or was the whole thing YAGCC (Yet Another
Government Coverup-Conspiracy)? Inquisitive minds want to know!


    Juhana
--
    "Never argue with a six-year-old who shaves."

        -- Calvin
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12555 alt.alien.visitors:10850 sci.skeptic:33714
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat,  7 Nov 92 06:18:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear People of Noble Character: It saturday morning and I need to go
to work, but maybe soon I'll time to tell you about the lady called
Viv.
John Winston
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12556 alt.alien.visitors:10851
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat,  7 Nov 92 06:22:34 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Folks: Let me state that Donald Long does not make a practice
of dealing with a person like myself. He prefers to associate with
conventional people from NASA.
John Winston
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat,  7 Nov 92 06:32:33 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Folk: I believe the person asking the last question had better
restate the question or maybe the question was written in as a
Kibo-ologist. I don't understand the language called Kibo very
well.
John Winston
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: AURAS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat,  7 Nov 92 06:36:22 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Aura Watchers: I would like to put forth a question to the grand
and glorious Kathie. Can you see the aura of a person when you see them
on TV?
John Winston
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat,  7 Nov 92 06:46:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Aura Checkers: If the famous Collene can work it into her busy
schedule (pronounced like an Englishman would say the word), I would
appreciate it if she would tell us mere mortal what she thinks happens
to a person's aura when they die?
John Winston
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psgrain!hippo!cc194.ru.ac.za!g92n3258
From: [e-mail] (MR RL NICOL)
Subject: UFO crash in South Africa
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 42
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 11:52:56 GMT

Yesterday I was watching a documentary on UFO's and they mentioned a UFO
crash in S.A.  Now, considering that that is where I live, I found it rather
unusual.  There had been nothing in the papers, nothing mentioned by
ufologists in S.A., and nothing on television regarding even a hint about
something crashing, let alone a UFO.

Aaaah!  Cover up, they cry.  Considering I got the information first from
UFO Universe Magazine, which I lost all respect for when they started
talking about BigFoot steering one of those things (surely his feet get in
the way) and major clashes between the US forces and a bunch of aliens who
have taken over a part of an army base (ala "War of the Worlds").  I
have further reasons to doubt it when the footage they showed on the same
programme (called Miracles of the Unknown - UFOS) included stuff of Billy
Meier's, which have been discovered to be fake, and UFOs whose drivers must
obviously be drunk or have no idea where they want to go.  Those things were
spinning and and falling.  Hell, they're worse than taxi drivers.  And what'
s more, they looked so FAKE.

But back to the topic, if anyone has any more info on the subject, I would
appreciate hearing it.  So far all I've heard is second hand reports about a
crash which to me is so unlikely it is beyond the boundaries of belief.

Lastly, I have yet to find a UFO magazine or documentary that treats the
topic with any degree of credibility.  Everyone I have seen is so hokey or
filled with ridiculous garbage that it is no wonder that the subject of UFOs
does not get serious attention from a large sector of the scientific
community.  And if you don't believe that people are making up some of this
trash, then you can always fall back to the "Government disinformation", and
if this is the reason behind it, then they've done a damn good job.  The
subject has become so discredited I think MJ12 is quite happy, sitting back
and smiling at their little UFO tucked under a tarpaulin at Wright-
Pattersons.  For if there is any reason why there are so many reports as to
UFOs crashing in some isolated area (why always isolated; they have good
aim) it must be because it is disinformation.  One UFO crash could be
believed, but they probably figured that if they spread so much disinfo
around regarding hundreds of other crashes, investigators would overlook the
one that occurred and the man/woman in the street would think its as hokey
as seers who all say the world is going to end, and give different dates for
its destruction.

All the best,
Ryan.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: Rumor!! Is it true?!!?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Nov 92 07:20:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, ON - 519-633-7253
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)
Lines: 72

To: [e-mail] (Joe Carlson)
From: hombas![e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)

JC|It appears that he was watching a latenight news channel (he forgets which
  |one).He heard something about a Russian spacecraft (to Mars??) getting blow
  |away by a UFO (captured on film, seconds before the craft lost
  |power). Again, c |anyone add anything to this??
  `------------------------------------------------------------------------

                     The Phobos II Incident
                  Hostile Aliens Based on Mars

On  July  12,  1988  the USSR  launched  Phobos  II  an  unmanned
satellite  to  Mars. It arrived in January 1989  and  entered  an
orbit   around  Mars  as  the  first  phase  towards  it's   real
destination, a small Martian moon called Phobos. The mission  was
flawless  until the craft aligned itself with the moon. On  March
28,  1989  an  elliptical object was detect  moving  towards  the
satellite seconds before it failed. All indications were that the
elliptical  object had attacked the satellite which was now  dead
and left spinning out of control.

On  March 28, 1989 Tass, the official Soviet news agency  stated:
"Phobos  II failed to communicate with Earth as  scheduled  after
completing  and  operation  yesterday  around  the  Martian  moon
Phobos.  Scientists  at  mission  control  have  been  unable  to
establish stable radio contact."

But  the  next  day a top official of  the  Soviet  Space  Agency
(Glavkosmos)  said:  "Phobos  II is 99% lost for  good."   It  is
important  to note that he stated the entire satellite  was  gone
and not just contact with it.

On   March   31,  1989  Headlines  dispatched   by   the   Moscow
correspondents of the European News Agency (EFE) stated:  "Phobos
2 Captured Strange Photos of Mars Before Losing Contact With It's
Base.  Vremya revealed yesterday that the space probe Phobos  II,
which was orbiting above Mars when Soviet scientists lost contact
with it on Monday, had photographed an UNIDENTIFIED OBJECT on the
Martian  surface  seconds  before  losing  contact."   Scientists
described the UNIDENTIFIED OBJECT as a thin ellipse 20 KILOMETERS
LONG!  It  was  further stated that the photos could  not  be  an
illusion because it was captured by 2 different color cameras  as
well as cameras taking infrared shots.

One  controller at the Kaliningrad control center concluded  that
the  probe  was now spinning out of control. It would  seem  that
something struck or shot the Phobos II Probe.

In  the  October  19,  1989  issue  of  Nature  Magazine,  Soviet
scientists concluded that the craft could be spinning because  it
was impacted.

It has long been rumored that Mars and it's moon Phobos are alien
colonies.   The   surface  of  Mars  is  covered   with   strange
shapes/buildings  that  do not appear to be natural such  as  the
pyramids,  square  buildings, runways, etc.  etc.  One  structure
shows the face of a man with a helmet looking into space. It  can
be  seen at the National Space Science Data Center, Viking  photo
with catalog number 76-A-593/17384 Titled "HEAD" . Another  photo
is  070-A-13.  There are now eleven Viking  photographs  of  this
obviously  intelligently constructed monument on the  surface  of
Mars.  The  "HEAD"  and other artificial  features  such  as  the
pyramids  an electrical engineer and imaging  specialist  Vincent
DiPietro and a Lockheed computer scientist combined the  original
photographs  and combined them to get a more  accurate  composite
images. The clearer images show that the features on the  surface
of Mars had been artificially sculpted...WE ARE NOT ALONE!

---
 . SLMR 2.1a . All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!magney
From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Mr. Winston
Date: 7 Nov 1992 19:03:37 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: scratchy.caltech.edu
Originator: magney@scratchy

You know, sometimes I wonder (particularly with the story of Lucille Ball
being raised from the dead) if John Winston isn't just putting us on  ;)

--
/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney          | "Well, if we were to build a   |
|                        |           giant badger..."     |
|                        |    - Monty Python and the      |
| [e-mail] |      search for the Holy Grail |
\---------------------------------------------------------/
--
/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney          | "Well, if we were to build a   |
|                        |           giant badger..."     |
|                        |    - Monty Python and the      |
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!cats.ucsc.edu!lestat
From: [e-mail] (Lestat de Lioncourt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: From: nmt@NSA
Date: 7 Nov 1992 19:48:41 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu



I tried doing a FTP to that NSA site as you sugested.
The network is unreachable. I kept trying and eventually
got through, I got a message identifying the agency and then
I lost the connection, I havent been able to reach the site
since.

 Hmmmm???


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: UFO crash in South Africa
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: BeHereNow
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:34:59 GMT
Lines: 69

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (MR RL NICOL) writes:
>Yesterday I was watching a documentary on UFO's and they mentioned a UFO
>crash in S.A.  Now, considering that that is where I live, I found it rather
>unusual.  There had been nothing in the papers, nothing mentioned by
>ufologists in S.A., and nothing on television regarding even a hint about
>something crashing, let alone a UFO.
>
>Aaaah!  Cover up, they cry.  Considering I got the information first from
>UFO Universe Magazine, which I lost all respect for when they started
>talking about BigFoot steering one of those things (surely his feet get in

Read what JWinston has to say about ET bigfoot. He knows more about them
than anyone I have ever met. The lore, the theories, that's really all anyone
knows, and he knows them all...ET bigfoot is as good a theory as anyone has
ever come up with.


>the way) and major clashes between the US forces and a bunch of aliens who
>have taken over a part of an army base (ala "War of the Worlds").  I
>have further reasons to doubt it when the footage they showed on the same
>programme (called Miracles of the Unknown - UFOS) included stuff of Billy
>Meier's, which have been discovered to be fake, and UFOs whose drivers must

Billy Meier's pictures have never been proven to be fake. In fact, NASA's
Bob Oechler anylised them and said exactly the opposite. The main critic I
have seen of BM's photos is J. Vallee, and I don't think he ever stated much
more than the opinion that they are fake. I do not respect JV a great deal,
I feel that he may have intelligence ties similar to Klass, and that
he likes to send people down dead-end paths quite a bit. Read Cooper, Stevens,
Light Years (author?) and Lindemann before you make up your mind about
BM's veracity...

>obviously be drunk or have no idea where they want to go.  Those things were
>spinning and and falling.  Hell, they're worse than taxi drivers.  And what'
>s more, they looked so FAKE.

Are you a degreed photo analyst? Other's who have looked at them do not agree
they are fakes.

>
>But back to the topic, if anyone has any more info on the subject, I would
>appreciate hearing it.  So far all I've heard is second hand reports about a
>crash which to me is so unlikely it is beyond the boundaries of belief.

Tony Dodd did quite a bit of research into this subject, as have others.

>
>Lastly, I have yet to find a UFO magazine or documentary that treats the
>topic with any degree of credibility.  Everyone I have seen is so hokey or
>filled with ridiculous garbage that it is no wonder that the subject of UFOs
>does not get serious attention from a large sector of the scientific
>community.  And if you don't believe that people are making up some of this
>trash, then you can always fall back to the "Government disinformation", and
>if this is the reason behind it, then they've done a damn good job.  The
>subject has become so discredited I think MJ12 is quite happy, sitting back
>and smiling at their little UFO tucked under a tarpaulin at Wright-
>Pattersons.  For if there is any reason why there are so many reports as to
>UFOs crashing in some isolated area (why always isolated; they have good
>aim) it must be because it is disinformation.  One UFO crash could be
>believed, but they probably figured that if they spread so much disinfo
>around regarding hundreds of other crashes, investigators would overlook the
>one that occurred and the man/woman in the street would think its as hokey
>as seers who all say the world is going to end, and give different dates for
>its destruction.
>
>All the best,
>Ryan.


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: Alien in my laboratory
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: BeHereNow
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:57:04 GMT
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>I am a physicist who would like to know more about this
>as I have a friend in my department who I believe is an alien.
>
>I know this sounds absurd, but I have been thinking about this for
>a long time and I believe this to be the case.
>
>What do I do.
>

Be nice to him.
Talk to him.
See if you can learn anything from him.

Jeff-
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: Tesla: Genius and Fr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: BeHereNow
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 20:00:35 GMT
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Lauren Podolak) writes:
>JP>The FDA has now started to raid practitioners that are
>JP>using vitamins to tre
>JP>diseases such as AIDS, holding patients and staff at gunpoint after kicki
>JP>the doors (May 6, 1992, Kent, Washinton, Tahoma Clinic,
>JP>Jonathon Wright, M.D
>
>Can you provide substantiation of this claim?  I hadn't heard FDA agents
>carry guns..........
>
>Lauren

It's true, well publicized on the net, and I posted a big article on it several
months ago...
Jeff-


Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:33728 alt.paranormal:5971 alt.alien.visitors:10862
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.larc.nasa.gov!news
From: [e-mail] (Claudio Egalon)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Jeane Dixon Predicts Bush Victory
Date: 7 Nov 1992 21:00:59 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Egalon)
NNTP-Posting-Host: b1230bmac8.larc.nasa.gov

Jeane Dixon "predictions" make me remind a  television show in my
country called (translated of course) "Fantastic!: the Show of the Life".
While I was in there, I remember, every year they would come along
with predictions by American astrologers. One of the predictions, and
I guess it was back in the 70's,  was that we were going to capture a
flying saucer and revolutionize human knowledge and, amazingly,
many different astrologers and, I bet, independently, had came with
this prediction. Well, should I botter to say? Nothing happened of
course and next year they came with another bunch of predictions
and, never mind, they did not comment about the alien technology.
Gosh! If there is any conspiracy I bet it is a conspiracy by all these guys
that claim all those strange things and "forget" to mention that last
year's predictions did not work!


Xref: icaen alt.conspiracy:19727 alt.alien.visitors:10863
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!anomaly.sbs.risc.net!kd1hz
From: [e-mail] (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: Unmarked Black Aircraft Sightings
Organization: The Rhode Island Internet Systems Cooperative Network
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1992 01:02:56 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 28

[e-mail] (Orson Scott) writes:

>Recently, in the state of Michigan, there have been numerous sightings
>of unmarked black helicopters flying manuvers. They have been spotted
>over Selfridge Airforce Base and in the Camp Grayling area. We believe
>this is part of a multinational peace keeping force which is training
>on american soil. Currently, we are trying to locate the home base for
>these aircraft. If you have personally sighted any unmarked black
>aircraft please send me mail immediately.

...
>I have never been a person to believe in conspiracys but I believe that
>there is a sizeable build up of foreign/international troops on our
>soil. I am not sure what it is all about but I believe we should find
>out. I have called my congressman and am going to take a trip out to
>Selfridge Airforce Base today. Until we find out who is controlling
>these troops none of use should sleep easy.


Sounds like MIBs. You can get all relevant information on MIB (Men In
Black) from any UFO-conspiracy buff.

MD
--
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your
--  Domain: [e-mail]            /  parents never had it, chances
--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /   are you won't either...
-- Telebit: [phone]              /
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12559 alt.alien.visitors:10864 sci.skeptic:33740
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat,  7 Nov 92 17:20:17 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Everybody: I should have said it's saturday. I hope this week
has treated you all well.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat,  7 Nov 92 17:28:07 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Aura Watchers: That should have been mere mortals.
John Winston
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:10866 alt.religion.kibology:4534
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 06:21:56 GMT
Lines: 18

[alt.alien.visitors]
[e-mail] (Mark-Stefan Scheftner, Modula) writes:
>> Do you think a creature wich speaks with his Bigfoots can even handle
>> an UFO???

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Folk: I believe the person asking the last question had better
>restate the question or maybe the question was written in as a
>Kibo-ologist. I don't understand the language called Kibo very
>well.

Huh?

I'm afraid I don't speak Winstonian, either... BUTT MAY B WE KANN Y0USE
BIFFSPEEK AZ ARE C0MMEN LANGwIJ HUH D00D !!!!!!1  LETS MAKE BIFFSPEEK THE
0FFISHEL LANGWIJ 0F ALt.ALEIN.VISITURS D00DZ !!!!!!!!!!1  ITS THE LANDWIJ
EVERY 1 WILL SPEEK IN THE FUCHER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
                        -- KIBIFF
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!cerritos.edu!wilbur!batpad!pcb!dennis.kier
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: auras
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Kier)
Date: 7 Nov 92 20:41:00 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Dennis Kier)
Distribution: world
Organization: The Batchelor Pad PCBoard ~ Long Beach, CA ~ [phone]
Lines: 62

Reference: <[e-mail]>

O> [e-mail] (Opera_Ghost)  -C.J.Rogers wrote:
O>I have been watching the trend of things since my last posting and decided to
O>jump in and answer a few questions, at least in my experience.

Thank you for this. Does your experience differ from what others who see
auras report? And what in your experience is the same?

O>As I said earlier, I see auras in the form of an atmospheric disturbance about
O>1"-3" wide around the body that I am looking at.  Occasionally I see it around
O>other objects that emenate (sorry about the spelling) strong EM fields, but it
O>is not as strong or common as around living things.

Refering to "body" is this limited to LIVING body, like human, animal,
insect, tree, or can it include a wood desk, computer screen, electric
motor (running), ect.?

O>I, at one time, thought I saw colors in the auras, but I soon realized that I
O>was putting those colors there and assigning emotions and physical conditions
O>to them based on what I personally felt about those colors.  I won't go into
O>what the colors mean because they are of no significance due to the above.

Have you checked with others who see auras to see whether they percieve
colors as you do? Perhaps your subconscious is communicating something
through the colors that you do not consciously realize.

O>    The aura is not directly associated with any one sense and can be
O>    (with difficulty) sensed without the eyes.

There are reports of russians who were trained to percieve printed
material, and colors with their forehead, with the eyes blindfolded, or
others with their finger tips.

O>    The actual makeup of an aura is unknown.  Various arguments rule it
O>    out of the EM, strong, weak, gravity, etc. forces that make up the
O>    energy of the universe.

The carrier frequency is in the infra-red (heat), something the body
manufactures. Can you see auras around a magnet, running electric motor,
an operating electronic circuit board, or static electricity? Or around
the Reich devices, Drown or Hieronomous circuits (that don't make any
sense from an electronic standpoint)?

To figure out what is involved, and what it is, it would be interesting
to see lists of what you can see it around, and equally important, what
you cannot see it around. - and it would be interesting to have others
who see auras make these lists also, to see how much of it correlates
from person to person. What is common, and what is not, and why.

And please ignore those blind people who ask you to prove to them that
you really can see these things, and are not lying to them. I would
rather start from the point that you can see these things, then gather
data from those like yourself who do see, and try to find out what it
is, and if it can be duplicated electronically. I think it is really a
waste of time for a sighted person to try to prove by argument to a
blind person that he can really see.

Dennis
---
 . EZ 1.37 .

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!cerritos.edu!wilbur!batpad!pcb!dennis.kier
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Kier)
Date: 7 Nov 92 20:41:00 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Dennis Kier)
Distribution: world
Organization: The Batchelor Pad PCBoard ~ Long Beach, CA ~ [phone]
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References: <[e-mail]>

JDear Folks: Please be patient with me. I seem to not be able to post
Jfrom floopy disk lately.

Well, it must be the space aliens who are helping you out. I have been
getting 4 copies of every one of your posts. The 2nd and 4th ones are a
little distorted at the end.

Dennis
---
 . EZ 1.37 .

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Philedelphia Experiment
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Nov 92 00:56:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, ON - 519-633-7253
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Joseph Daniels)
Lines: 144

From: hombas!joseph.daniels#uunet.ca
To: [e-mail] (Chris Mojica)
Newsgroup: alt.aline.visitors
  .-------------------------------------------------------------------
CM|Didn't the Navy, in WWII, use high magnetic fields to try to render
their sh |nearly invisible to radar in the Philadelphia Experiment.  I
don't think it |made the ship crumple up into a twisted piece of metal.
  `--------------------------------------------------------------------

                      The Tele-Ported Ship
                      from InfoNet, London

How  many of you heard of the Philadelphia Experiment?  According
to  several sources a fully manned destroyer escort,  the  U.S.S.
Eldridge vanished into a green fog in Philadelphia,  Pennsylvania
and  was  'tele-ported'. Seconds later it  appeared  hundreds  of
miles  away  in Norfolk, Virginia and then it  was  'tele-ported'
back to Philadelphia, just like the transporters from the science
fiction stories of Star Trek.

Mr. Morris Ketchum Jessup, Scientist and author of the book  "The
Case  for  the UFO" received the letter below on On  January  13,
1956. One of Mr. Jessup's main interests was propulsion system of
a  UFO,  and believed that our ancestors had also  witnessed  the
application  of this form of power. This letter was  amongst  the
typical fan mail which almost any book generates.

This  odd  styled letter was hand written  in  several  different
types of fonts and different types and colors of pencil and  pen.
Capitalizations  are  used in the middle of  sentences  and  many
words are used in a strange manner and many are mis-spelled.  The
punctuation is also very strange and many phrases were underlined
in  different colors of ink. [In the version below  such  phrases
are in all CAPITALS]

Although some might right-off such a document as the ramblings of
a  crack-pot, the actual content of the letter is obviously  from
very knowledgeable about the event. Talk of Unified Field  Theory
and  the  Relativity of Time to the observer  are  fairly  common
today, but not to a raving lunatic back in 1955.

In  April  of 1959, Mr. Jessup told an associate,  Dr.  Valentine
that  he  had researched the "Philadelphia  Experiment"  and  the
contents of the letter and wished to show him the rough draft  of
his  amazing findings. The get-together was set for 6:30 P.M.  on
April  20, 1959. On that very same day Mr. Jessup was found  dead
in  his car in county park and no notes or manuscripts were  ever
found nor mentioned in the police reports. The police ruled it as
a suicide but no suicide note was ever found. Could he have  been
killed  by the secret service, who are infamous for making  their
killings look like suicide? Did Mr. Jessup uncover something that
cost his life? Did Dr. Valentine tell the wrong people about  his
meeting with Mr. Jessup? Did the Navy kill Mr. Jessup to cover-up
the "Philadelphia Experiment"?

                         *     *      *

                      Carlos Miguel Allenda
                       R.D. No. 1 Box 223
                       New Kingston, Penn.

My Dear Dr. Jessup,

Your invocation to the Public that they move en Masse upon  their
Representatives  and  have thusly enough Pressure placed  at  the
right  & sufficient Number of Places where from a  Law  demanding
Research  into Dr. Albert Einsteins Unified Field Theory  May  be
enacted (1925-27) IS NOT at all necessary.

It May Interest you to know that The Good Doctor Was Not so  Much
influenced in his retraction of that Work, BY Mathematics, as  he
most assuredly was by Humantics.

His  Later computations, done strictly for his own edification  &
amusement, upon cycles of Human Civilization & Progress  compared
to  the  Growth of Mans General overall Character Was  enough  to
Horrify  Him.  Thus,  We are "TOLD" today that  that  Theory  was
"Incomplete."

Dr.  B.  Russell asserts privately that It is complete.  He  also
says that Man is Not Ready for it & Shan't be until after W.W.III
Nevertheless,  "Results"  of My friend Dr.  Franklin  Reno,  WERE
USED. These Were a complete Re-check of That Theory, With a  View
to  any & Every Possible quick use of it, if feasable in  a  Very
short  time. There Were good Results, as far as a Group Math  Re-
Check AND as far as a good Physical "Result", to Boot.

             YET, THE NAVY FEARS TO USE THIS RESULT.

The  Result was and stands today as Proof that The Unified  Field
Theory  to  a  certain extent is  correct.  Beyond  that  certain
extent  is correct. Beyond that certain extent No Person  in  his
right senses, or having any senses at all, Will evermore DARE  to
go.  I am sorry that I Mislead You in My Presious Missive.  True,
enough,  such  a  form of Levitation  has  been  accomplished  as
described.  True,  enough,  such a form of  Levitation  has  been
accomplished  as described. It is also a Very  commonly  observed
reaction  of  certain  Metals t